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Old 07-05-2019, 09:41 PM   #1171
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well while waiting on crown I couldn't help but do a few things .

first thing i'd do is remove the 2 caliper brackets mark them(L/R),clamp them down at the bolt face on a very flat/true surface to compare and measure them.and see if they are indeed the same spects.
then I would try switching the sides that the brackets are installed on and see if the spacing problem switch's sides

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Old 07-06-2019, 08:48 AM   #1172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedoak View Post
well while waiting on crown I couldn't help but do a few things .

first thing i'd do is remove the 2 caliper brackets mark them(L/R),clamp them down at the bolt face on a very flat/true surface to compare and measure them.and see if they are indeed the same spects.
then I would try switching the sides that the brackets are installed on and see if the spacing problem switch's sides
yea I guess I could do all that, but I'll wait til I hear from Crown,,,trying to get in touch with Q'tec, but they must be on vacation(live chat doesn't work)

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Old 07-06-2019, 09:05 AM   #1173
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yea I guess I could do all that, but I'll wait til I hear from Crown,,,trying to get in touch with Q'tec, but they must be on vacation(live chat doesn't work)
well the reason I suggested it was to streamline the whole process.
my guess is that then you side by side compare them on a flat surface,
you going to see a difference between the two brackets.
you will then have something tangible to present to crown

however if they are indeed identical and the problem does indeed switch sides,
you have verified that it is indeed something occurring with the new parts
and the problem is on crowns end.

on the other hand if after the brackets are swapped ,and the problem remains,,
its time to look for an anomaly with your front spindle assembly
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:52 AM   #1174
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I remember when I installed my kit the brackets were close to the rotor on one side and plenty of clearance on the outside. The rotor is definitely not centered in the caliper bracket.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:38 PM   #1175
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Update: Crown contacted me and they said, "The plan now is to look into the possibility of including shims to go between the caliper bracket and the knuckle." You can see how close the caliper is to the rotor. This is their picture
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Old 07-19-2019, 09:12 AM   #1176
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Originally Posted by Ramona Wrangler View Post
Listen people...this is a plug n play kit. Remove stock brakes/calipers and install new BBK.
This is not Quadratec's or my fault. There is either something wrong with the backset/offset with the rotors or the opening of the caliper brackets. Doesn't Crown get their kits from MOPAR? And I can't go back to stock......they are in the landfill.

When I started to read the latest batch of posts, I thought there was simply a one-off installation problem.


Are we now at the point (consensus ?) that it is an actual design fault, that we all have?
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Old 07-19-2019, 10:04 AM   #1177
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Once you mount your wheel on the hub, the rotor will center itself in the caliper. Just FYI.
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Old 07-19-2019, 10:54 AM   #1178
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Originally Posted by Ramona Wrangler View Post
Doesn't Crown get their kits from MOPAR? And I can't go back to stock......they are in the landfill.
Crown doesn't get their kit from Mopar. The more likely scenario is that Crown is a supplier to Mopar and own the designs of the parts and can therefore manufacture them. In that process since they're not being sold through Mopar, they have the ability to cut corners and save on costs if they choose since the parts are not being branded or sold through Mopar, and they no longer have to honor Mopar warranty and also don't have to meet Mopar OEM validation/testing requirement specifications.

Something like you are experiencing may be that Crown designed and manufactured the brackets for the Mopar kit, where Mopar would define the tolerances of those brackets for Crown's manufacturing process. That sometimes leads to end of line failures which leads to increased scrap costs for Crown. Crown would have the ability to manufacture those parts with less tolerance than the Mopar specs to reduce their scrap costs. Another scenario is that Crown could manufacture those parts using different tools than the Mopar parts since in most instances an OEM reimburses a Tier 1 supplier for the costs of the manufacturing tools the supplier uses to manufacture the OEM parts and the OEM therefore owns that tool and dictates what the supplier can and can't do with that tool. Mopar would have to give Crown permission to use their owned tool to manufacture their aftermarket parts even if the tool is located in a Crown manufacturing plant. So Crown could be using a different tool which they own and it may be out of alignment and causing the problem you're experiencing. There's many scenarios....bottom line, a Crown part may or may not be of the same caliper quality as a Mopar part even if they look identical to the eye.

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I had been looking at getting either the Mopar or Crown trans cooler kit. If you look at pic comparisons between those 2 trans cooler kits they look virtually identical. Someone who had both in hand however noticed that the mounting brackets of the Crown version of the kit were not as strong as the Mopar version of that same kit. Mopar has vibration testing requirements to ensure brackets don't rip/tear....when those same brackets are no longer being sold through Mopar they then have the ability to manufacture a lower cost bracket or Maybe Mopar didn't allow them to use their tool to manufacture those brackets and Crown went with a lower cost tool which could only stamp out lower strength steel. An OEM hardened tool to stamp out brackets often costs on the order of $200K-$500K to make. You can make a similar tool for $20-$50K but it won't last as long and it won't be as strong to stamp out thicker steel. Kind of like buying a Harbor Freight tool vs a Snap-on.

There was only a $5-$10 cost savings for me as a customer when I was looking at the trans cooler kits. I made sure to get the Mopar version since the cost savings weren't that significant for me to get a potentially lower quality kit.

I also replaced my wheel hub units, where the Crown and Mopar also look identical. The Crown was $80 and the Mopar was $160. In that case the price difference was significant enough where I went with the Crown. Crown likely suppliers those wheel hubs to Mopar.
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Old 07-19-2019, 11:47 AM   #1179
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Originally Posted by WaltA View Post
When I started to read the latest batch of posts, I thought there was simply a one-off installation problem.


Are we now at the point (consensus ?) that it is an actual design fault, that we all have?

Likely a manufacturing problem. I know you're familiar with tooling and manufacturing, as well as tolerance inspections.
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Old 07-19-2019, 07:18 PM   #1180
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Originally Posted by The Rusty Jeep View Post
Once you mount your wheel on the hub, the rotor will center itself in the caliper. Just FYI.
wrong
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Old 07-19-2019, 08:03 PM   #1181
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If itís any consolation, the Baer BBK uses shims to center the rear calipers.

.02
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Old 07-19-2019, 09:48 PM   #1182
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Got 20K miles on my Mopar BBK...Can't say enough about how good it has been. It was tough to source and took 8 months to arrive but the fight was worth it
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Old 07-19-2019, 11:44 PM   #1183
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Has there been any complaints regarding fitment issues with the Mopar BBK?

.
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Old 07-20-2019, 03:33 AM   #1184
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Has there been any complaints regarding fitment issues with the Mopar BBK?

.
Not that I have seen on this forum...I had read pretty much all the threads before making the purchase.
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Old 07-20-2019, 07:01 AM   #1185
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Has there been any complaints regarding fitment issues with the Mopar BBK?

.

I've never read about any and I have the Mopar BBK which I installed myself and can say mine didn't have that problem.
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Old 07-20-2019, 08:17 AM   #1186
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If itís any consolation, the Baer BBK uses shims to center the rear calipers.

.02
They call them shims, I call them washers. I put on washers/shims which moved the caliper bracket outward the distance of the thickness of the washer. There is plenty of clearance now.
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Old 07-20-2019, 09:10 AM   #1187
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They call them shims, I call them washers. I put on washers/shims which moved the caliper bracket outward the distance of the thickness of the washer. There is plenty of clearance now.
I agree... I kinda laughed a little when I watched a video of the Baer BBK being installed on a JK. No big deal. But for that kind of money, I expect more...

When I saw your post with the fix, I immediately thought the variance has to be in the brackets. I could be wrong, but the brackets are the only component that are unique to the JK. All the other parts are standard Mopar shelf parts used on multiple vehicles... e.g. Dodge Journey, Ram 1500, Jeep EU, etc.

If Crown is having their own brackets made to their specs and tolerances — with enough change to not infringe on Chrysler’s design, then that could conceivably be the problem. The fix is to add “washers” when needed.

But I defer to @rednroll ’s explanation in terms of third party licensing to make these parts to exact Mopar specs. Mopar “Jeep Performance” put this BBK together from their own parts catalog [with exception to the brackets] and Crown moved in to capitalize on Jeep Performance Parts offerings. I’ll reserve my opinion how I feel about that because both are considered aftermarket BBK Kits.

Jeep will not honor their factory warranty even with their own BBK parts installed.. but that’s another discussion.

On the other hand, Crown has been in business a long time making and offering parts that have been discontinued by the BIG three.. the rub here is, this Jeep Performance Parts BBK had not been discontinued.

Thanks for bringing this to the forefront. I know you had a lot frustration trying to acquire this KIT... and then much downtime with the installation. I would have sent all these parts back to Crown for a full refund.

I’m not as forgiving..

.
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Old 07-20-2019, 08:07 PM   #1188
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Originally Posted by Ramona Wrangler View Post
They call them shims, I call them washers. I put on washers/shims which moved the caliper bracket outward the distance of the thickness of the washer. There is plenty of clearance now.

Is there some details on how you did this, that you could share?
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Old 07-20-2019, 08:23 PM   #1189
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If Crown is having their own brackets made to their specs and tolerances — with enough change to not infringe on Chrysler’s design, then that could conceivably be the problem.

I highly doubt this is the case. Crown is a supplier to Chrysler. They would not risk that relationship for aftermarket business in copying Mopar designs. Crown is likely a supplier of the Mopar kit such as rotors, calipers, and brackets. They likely aren't the supplier of the MC and Booster, thus the reason the Crown kit when it became available, those parts were not included.


You can find a list of all FCA suppliers by seeing who is listed in their Affiliate rewards discount program. Crown likely has a business arrangement with Mopar where there may be a set amount of time before they can release competitive products. There are often stipulations in place as well in regards to the tools used to manufacture those parts which I outlined earlier.

https://www.fcausaffiliates.com/cont...anylocator.pdf


Scroll down to the Cs and you'll find Crown.


Quote:
S86499 Crown Automotive Sales Company Inc Marshfield, MA Supplier Employees Only

F35309 Crown Castle USA Inc Canonsburg, PA Supplier Employees Only S24298

Crown Equipment Corporation New Bremen, OH Supplier Employees Only
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Old 07-20-2019, 08:58 PM   #1190
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Is there some details on how you did this, that you could share?
simple, there is only one way to put the washers on, they go on between the caliper and bracket.......
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Old 07-20-2019, 09:26 PM   #1191
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I highly doubt this is the case. Crown is a supplier to Chrysler. They would not risk that relationship for aftermarket business in copying Mopar designs. Crown is likely a supplier of the Mopar kit such as rotors, calipers, and brackets. They likely aren't the supplier of the MC and Booster, thus the reason the Crown kit when it became available, those parts were not included.


You can find a list of all FCA suppliers by seeing who is listed in their Affiliate rewards discount program. Crown likely has a business arrangement with Mopar where there may be a set amount of time Crown before they release competitive products.


https://www.fcausaffiliates.com/cont...anylocator.pdf


Scroll down to the Cs and you'll find Crown.
I’m familiar with FCA Affiliates... my parent and operating companies where I work are on that list as suppliers. We don’t manufacture or sell automotive parts — far from it. But we do lease fleet vehicles from FCA for our field service organizations.

I’m not sure how much engineering work Crown does for FCA. I thought they were more focused on aftermarket replacement parts — not necessarily supplying FCA factories, Mopar Parts and Jeep dealers with current production.

I would like to know if the Mopar BBK is still available and without these issues.

Edit: 2019 Jeep Performance Parts catalog.

.
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Old 07-21-2019, 08:10 AM   #1192
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I’m familiar with FCA Affiliates... my parent and operating companies where I work are on that list as suppliers. We don’t manufacture or sell automotive parts — far from it. But we do lease fleet vehicles from FCA for our field service organizations.

I’m not sure how much engineering work Crown does for FCA. I thought they were more focused on aftermarket replacement parts — not necessarily supplying FCA factories, Mopar Parts and Jeep dealers with current production.

I would like to know if the Mopar BBK is still available and without these issues.

Edit: 2019 Jeep Performance Parts catalog.
I thought that we previously established that Crown does, at least, the longer brake lines included with the Mopar BBK?
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Old 07-21-2019, 08:41 AM   #1193
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Here is the edited version of what Crown did on my situation:

I'll be comparing our drilled and slotted rotors with our standard rotors shortly.

I just compared our drilled and slotted rotors with our standard rotors. There is no difference between the two.

'll be installing a combination of caliper bracket and rotor from our current stock on our JK with a 2 year old big brake kit tomorrow. A combination of old parts and new parts should provide a result.

Installing a new rotor and old caliper bracket will result in a tight fit/rubbing if it's the rotor. I'll do all the combinations of rotors & caliper brackets.

I just finished the comparison. I was unable to get any of our rotors to contact our caliper brackets. The rotor is closer to the outside of the caliper bracket but it's about a 1/16" gap. We've got an order in for a Mopar caliper bracket. I'll let you know what I find.

I just received the caliper bracket from Mopar. It fits the same as ours. Tighter on the front side of the rotor when compared to the back side. I'm still waiting on the rotor to arrive.

That's a Mopar caliper bracket, rotor, hub, and knuckle. And the backing plate is installed. The plan now is to look into the possibility of including shims to go between the caliper bracket and the knuckle.
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:19 AM   #1194
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I thought that we previously established that Crown does, at least, the longer brake lines included with the Mopar BBK?
During my absence, I must have missed that...

If Jeep Performance Parts Division (separate from Mopar Parts Division) contracted Crown as the contract manufacturer to assemble this kit using a combination of Mopar Parts and a few aftermarket components, then they’re not doing a very good job.

I would be surprised if Crown has a brake line production department in-house... those are probably procured from a contract manufacturer that does. I question how many of these components are actually manufactured by Crown. If they have manufacturing and assembly plants oversees or just assemble and kit parts that are procured from third parties.

From day one this hasn’t gone well. The first Mopar BBKs shipped to dealers had the wrong rotors — had to be recalled. If I recall correctly, it was missing the small reservoir for the manual transmission optioned JK that was called out in the instructions. Nowhere to be found...

In all fairness, I’m not sure if Crown Manufacturing is responsible for all of this..

But if Crown is under contract to supply the Mopar “Jeep Performance Parts” branded BBK and is also authorized to sell the same components under the Crown branded BBK through their own exclusive dealer networks — then this problem should surface on the Jeep Performance Parts BBK as well. It could be a batch of brackets that was machined out of spec — all these components are probably setup in the routers to bypass receiving or final inspection. Or are simply inspected for the correct label and part number.

I just bought Mopar Parts rear rotors for my 2013 and they were manufactured in Canada... the pads in China.

I trust they all fit together correctly..

.
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Old 07-21-2019, 02:12 PM   #1195
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Iím familiar with FCA Affiliates... my parent and operating companies where I work are on that list as suppliers. We donít manufacture or sell automotive parts ó far from it. But we do lease fleet vehicles from FCA for our field service organizations.

My company's on the list as a supplier as well, where we do design, manufacture and supply parts for FCA. That's the reasons, I have some insight of the potential scenarios of what may be going on with these Crown parts but obviously don't have any direct insight to know for certain. There's Crown offices near the FCA headquarters in my area, so that's my assumption that they're likely a supplier to FCA.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:31 AM   #1196
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Here is the edited version of what Crown did on my situation:

I'll be comparing our drilled and slotted rotors with our standard rotors shortly.

I just compared our drilled and slotted rotors with our standard rotors. There is no difference between the two.

'll be installing a combination of caliper bracket and rotor from our current stock on our JK with a 2 year old big brake kit tomorrow. A combination of old parts and new parts should provide a result.

Installing a new rotor and old caliper bracket will result in a tight fit/rubbing if it's the rotor. I'll do all the combinations of rotors & caliper brackets.

I just finished the comparison. I was unable to get any of our rotors to contact our caliper brackets. The rotor is closer to the outside of the caliper bracket but it's about a 1/16" gap. We've got an order in for a Mopar caliper bracket. I'll let you know what I find.

I just received the caliper bracket from Mopar. It fits the same as ours. Tighter on the front side of the rotor when compared to the back side. I'm still waiting on the rotor to arrive.

That's a Mopar caliper bracket, rotor, hub, and knuckle. And the backing plate is installed. The plan now is to look into the possibility of including shims to go between the caliper bracket and the knuckle.

Is this you by any chance?
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/modi...-346650/page6/


If not there's someone else with the exact same problem. If that's not you then this seems like a Crown manufacturing problem going on here. I don't believe @dawhitesJKU had the same problem when installing his Crown kit awhile back.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:56 AM   #1197
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wrong
Actually, I am right. Don't believe me? Thread your lugnuts on and moderately tighten them down. The rotor might not perfectly center in the caliper, but it'll move towards centering it.

Source: I have this exact kit that I installed the last week of June. This is exactly how it worked for me.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:59 AM   #1198
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My rotor was also uncomfortably close to the caliper bracket, but it doesn't rub it so I didn't worry about it.

I guess another option is to grind away a little bit of material from the caliper bracket?
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:29 AM
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Crown Automotive Big Brake Kit RT31046

@rednroll I didnít have any issues.

As @The rusty Jeep mentioned... I remember I had the same play with the rotor. Once tightened, the rotors self centers.

It was a truly bad experience for Ramona wrangler. Shipment issues with previous company and now the clearance issue. Iím also thinking defect.


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Old 07-22-2019, 11:36 AM   #1200
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My rotor was also uncomfortably close to the caliper bracket, but it doesn't rub it so I didn't worry about it.

I guess another option is to grind away a little bit of material from the caliper bracket?
Yes, grinding a little material is a quick and easy way to work around the problem, if the rotor and caliper are still uncomfortably close. Probably 5 minutes with a die grinder (per side) and you'd be golden.

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