Cummins Turbo Diesel Swap - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK General Discussion Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Like Tree14Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 05-14-2017, 08:41 PM
Thread Starter
  #1
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 809
Cummins Turbo Diesel Swap

At Overland Expo this weekend, Cummins brought a Wrangler with a 2.8L TD swap, and had a couple of the motors on display. The guy that had driven the Wrangler out said he has been getting about 32mpg with it. Surprisingly little wiring, but I don't know how well it will play with all the other stuff in the Jeep.

Anyway, if someone wanted a turbo diesel, but doesn't want to wait for a JL, if that even happens....

https://cumminsengines.com/repower.aspx

n3tfury likes this.
spag is offline   Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 09:00 PM   #2
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by spag View Post
At Overland Expo this weekend, Cummins brought a Wrangler with a 2.8L TD swap, and had a couple of the motors on display. The guy that had driven the Wrangler out said he has been getting about 32mpg with it. Surprisingly little wiring, but I don't know how well it will play with all the other stuff in the Jeep.

Anyway, if someone wanted a turbo diesel, but doesn't want to wait for a JL, if that even happens....

https://cumminsengines.com/repower.aspx
I like that over a Hemi swap any day..
NTXJK likes this.

Capt JK is offline   Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 09:03 PM
Thread Starter
  #3
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt JK View Post
I like that over a Hemi swap any day..
I think the guy said that the motor/wiring was a little over $9k, so a lot cheaper than a Hemi swap as well.
spag is offline   Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-14-2017, 09:10 PM   #4
Jeeper
 
YnotAJeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: La Verne, Calif.
Posts: 3,993
Yep, just add about $10K in smog equipment and a few miles of red tape in Calif.
__________________
2014 JKUR, Leather and everything inside, 4 inch OME springs, all Alpine arms, Adams front driveshaft, Falcon 2.1's, Adj track bars front and rear, heavy bumpers and winch, ICON rims and 315-70-17 BFG KO2's, ARB diff covers, ProComp LED's, 2 Bernese Mtn dogs.
Previously 2001 XJ lifted 5, SYE, True-tracks F & R.
CJ7, 304V8, auto, loaded, Detroit rear, and more.
90 Bronco,, 76 Bronco,, 70 Bronco
YnotAJeep is offline   Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 10:04 PM   #5
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
71K5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 824
With the exception of getting 32mpg, I do not really see much benefit to this diesel engine. Specs are 161hp and 267torque. So you get 120 less horse power and the same torque as the Pentastar.
I think I would rather keep the $10k in my pocket, to offset the fuel economy and wait for a diesel with more torque. Something on the order of a MINIMUM 350-400 torque would be the ONLY way I would even consider a diesel conversion.
gohard and Groper like this.
71K5 is offline   Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 10:22 PM   #6
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by YnotAJeep View Post
Yep, just add about $10K in smog equipment and a few miles of red tape in Calif.
Calif red tape spoils everything
Capt JK is offline   Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 10:26 PM   #7
Jeeper
 
rraulston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 96
Cummins would make a fortune if they made a kit to adapt this engine to a JK...
rraulston is offline   Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 10:31 PM   #8
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by spag View Post
I think the guy said that the motor/wiring was a little over $9k, so a lot cheaper than a Hemi swap as well.
A lot cheaper than a Hemi, but also a lot less torque and power than a Hemi.

In fact, it makes about the same torque as the Pentastar, and only 56% of the power of a Pentastar.

Cummins 2.8:
161 hp @ 3600
267 lb-ft @1500-3000 RPM
Max RPM: 3600

3.6 Pentastar:
285 hp @ 6400 (> 161 hp starting around 3500)
260 lb-ft @ 4800 RPM (250+ lb-ft @ 2000-5200 RPM)
Max RPM: 6400

__________________
2013 Wrangler Sport (2DR) | Stick Shift | 4.10 Gears | TrueTrac LSD Front & Rear
33x12.5x15 Duratracs on 15x8 Black Rock D-Window Wheels
Prodigy Performance Stage 2 Turbo
AEV 2" Spacer Lift
Full Disclosure: Affiliated with Prodigy Performance as of 3/10/16 (explanation)
This is my personal account. My statements/opinions are my own; not Prodigy's
UselessPickles is offline   Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 10:39 PM   #9
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by spag View Post
I think the guy said that the motor/wiring was a little over $9k, so a lot cheaper than a Hemi swap as well.
Or is it? That's just the price for the engine and generic wiring harness/ECM? How much is it for additional parts necessary to fully adapt the engine/wiring to the Wrangler? What kind of labor is involved compared to a Hemi swap? Is there a well-known list of parts needed, and documented procedure to follow?
__________________
2013 Wrangler Sport (2DR) | Stick Shift | 4.10 Gears | TrueTrac LSD Front & Rear
33x12.5x15 Duratracs on 15x8 Black Rock D-Window Wheels
Prodigy Performance Stage 2 Turbo
AEV 2" Spacer Lift
Full Disclosure: Affiliated with Prodigy Performance as of 3/10/16 (explanation)
This is my personal account. My statements/opinions are my own; not Prodigy's
UselessPickles is offline   Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 10:48 PM   #10
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,527
Sign me up. My jk is the only vehicle I own that takes unleaded. Everything else takes diesel. Same torque at 1/3 the RPMs! Once you know about diesel you never look at gas the same.
stumblinhorse is offline   Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 10:56 PM   #11
Jeeper
 
YnotAJeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: La Verne, Calif.
Posts: 3,993
Just put the 3L V6 like the GC and the Ram 1500 . Add the 8 speed trans and you got me. Then you have one that moves with MPG. Oh, does the price really matter?
__________________
2014 JKUR, Leather and everything inside, 4 inch OME springs, all Alpine arms, Adams front driveshaft, Falcon 2.1's, Adj track bars front and rear, heavy bumpers and winch, ICON rims and 315-70-17 BFG KO2's, ARB diff covers, ProComp LED's, 2 Bernese Mtn dogs.
Previously 2001 XJ lifted 5, SYE, True-tracks F & R.
CJ7, 304V8, auto, loaded, Detroit rear, and more.
90 Bronco,, 76 Bronco,, 70 Bronco
YnotAJeep is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 06:00 AM   #12
Jeeper
 
Captain Ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,756
When the Pentastar has 240,000 miles on it and smokes like an old diesel that Cummins is just getting broken in. Pound for pound that diesel will last a hell of a long time compared to a gasser. As noted above look at the revs for the "same" power. The only negative for me with these new ones is the government requiring DEF. Even that can be changed with a little know how.
Hilldweller likes this.
__________________
2013 2 dr Commando Green,2.5 Metalcloak Gamechanger lift,Teraflex MonsterTB, Northridge bolt kit, JKS Quicker Discos, Cooper 37X13.5X70 STT Pros on ATX Slabs. ACE rock sliders, Rugged Ridge XHD front bumper RR synthetic line winch, LoD rear linked full width bumper, RR Snorkel, 4.88, ProRockR44 with 35 sp RCV, rear Tenfactory 35 sp, locked with ARB,MC all 8 arms, MC rear Track Bar, Steersmarts TR and DL, Adams Extreme duty front DS
Captain Ed is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 06:19 AM   #13
Jeeper
 
Hilldweller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hog Waller, GA
Posts: 8,903
The Pentastar's torque isn't really that impressive off the line at all.
We were coming home from camping yesterday and stopped on an uphill section of road at a light. 2014 JKU 6-speed manual, 3.73s and 33s. With a trailer.
Light turned green and it was all I could do to get the beast rolling up the hill without stalling.
There's no low-end torque at all with the Pentastar.

Gimme that diesel. I can't afford the swap; hoping for a contest or a guardian angel or something.
__________________
Gone camping,
Bill

"Don't it make ya wanna holla'? Don't it make ya wanna pray?
People, don't it make ya wonder what's he gonna say today?"
-- Eric Bibb
#blackwheelsmatter
Hilldweller is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 06:25 AM   #14
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,139
Personally and if it still can be done.. I'd check into COTY Built | Jeep TDI Conversions
1386570 is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 06:26 AM   #15
Jeeper
 
15JKUR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Leavenworth, IN
Posts: 941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
The Pentastar's torque isn't really that impressive off the line at all.
We were coming home from camping yesterday and stopped on an uphill section of road at a light. 2014 JKU 6-speed manual, 3.73s and 33s. With a trailer.
Light turned green and it was all I could do to get the beast rolling up the hill without stalling.
There's no low-end torque at all with the Pentastar.

Gimme that diesel. I can't afford the swap; hoping for a contest or a guardian angel or something.
According to this chart 3.73 with a manual and 33's are going to be sluggish pulling its own weight let alone pulling a trailer from a stop on a hill. Looks like 4.10's or maybe even 4.56 would be best for you.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0449.jpg
Views:	478
Size:	251.4 KB
ID:	3591170  
__________________
2018 Jeep Wrangler Sport (Ocean Blue)
15JKUR is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 06:46 AM   #16
Jeeper
 
Hilldweller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hog Waller, GA
Posts: 8,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by 15JKUR View Post
According to this chart 3.73 with a manual and 33's are going to be sluggish pulling its own weight let alone pulling a trailer from a stop on a hill. Looks like 4.10's or maybe even 4.56 would be best for you.
Oh, hell, I know that. I'd love to have 4.56s.
But it comes with 3.73s, has a lifetime MaxCare warranty on the 3.73s, and will keep the 3.73s until it blows up or I hit the lottery.

'til then I'll whine about the lack of torque. It's my god-given right.
__________________
Gone camping,
Bill

"Don't it make ya wanna holla'? Don't it make ya wanna pray?
People, don't it make ya wonder what's he gonna say today?"
-- Eric Bibb
#blackwheelsmatter
Hilldweller is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 06:51 AM   #17
Jeeper
 
15JKUR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Leavenworth, IN
Posts: 941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
Oh, hell, I know that. I'd love to have 4.56s.
But it comes with 3.73s, has a lifetime MaxCare warranty on the 3.73s, and will keep the 3.73s until it blows up or I hit the lottery.

'til then I'll whine about the lack of torque. It's my god-given right.
Makes sense I was just trying to help out not state the obvious. I wouldn't blame the 3.6 for lack of torque in your situation though.
__________________
2018 Jeep Wrangler Sport (Ocean Blue)
15JKUR is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 06:59 AM   #18
Jeeper
 
Hilldweller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hog Waller, GA
Posts: 8,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by 15JKUR View Post
Makes sense I was just trying to help out not state the obvious. I wouldn't blame the 3.6 for lack of torque in your situation though.
I would though.
It came with 32s stock. And couldn't tow either. 33s aren't much of a stretch, especially smallish mud 33s.
The only way a Pentastar with 3.73s would seem torquey is with 30s.

In my humblest of humble opinions, Muther Jeep could've given us a more truckish engine with a torque curve that starts lower. And she could've given us 4.10s stock, 4.56 in the Rubi.
My Power Wagon had 4.56s stock with 33s and a Hemi. That was a blissful combination.
__________________
Gone camping,
Bill

"Don't it make ya wanna holla'? Don't it make ya wanna pray?
People, don't it make ya wonder what's he gonna say today?"
-- Eric Bibb
#blackwheelsmatter
Hilldweller is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 07:15 AM   #19
Jeeper
 
15JKUR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Leavenworth, IN
Posts: 941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
I would though.
It came with 32s stock. And couldn't tow either. 33s aren't much of a stretch, especially smallish mud 33s.
The only way a Pentastar with 3.73s would seem torquey is with 30s.

In my humblest of humble opinions, Muther Jeep could've given us a more truckish engine with a torque curve that starts lower. And she could've given us 4.10s stock, 4.56 in the Rubi.
My Power Wagon had 4.56s stock with 33s and a Hemi. That was a blissful combination.
Different gear options from the factory would be great but looking at the chart even 32's are just barely acceptable, then throw in a hill and towing, I wouldn't expect 3.73's to be very good for that kind of duty...especially with a manual that doesn't have a TC to "help" it
__________________
2018 Jeep Wrangler Sport (Ocean Blue)
15JKUR is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 09:09 AM   #20
Jeeper
 
Excoastie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Bossier City, LA
Posts: 1,005
I was just talking to a co-worker the other day about doing some sort of diesel swap in a wrangler. He's been a diesel guy for about as long as anyone can remember.

He said that there is currently a Cummings I6 on the market that would drop right in, not sure what he meant by "drop right in" or what would be involved. I would imagine that it would be pretty expensive, but perhaps not even close to the cost of the HEMI swap.

Exco
__________________
JKRHR, SOLD!
Build Thread
---------------------------------------------------
I'm going outside to stand.
If anyone asks, I'm OUTSTANDING
Excoastie is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 10:51 AM   #21
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,527
if you watch extreme off road on spike, I think, that guy is doing that same 2.8 cummins engine onto a JK frame that is going under a defender 90. So it definitely will fit. I will go that way when the pentastar gives up on me.
stumblinhorse is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 11:04 AM   #22
Jeeper
 
Apex6000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 202
The 5.0L V8 in the Nissan trucks was originally being made for Dodge 1500 trucks. When Chrysler went bankrupt they cancelled the program and Cummins went looking for a new partner. The 5.0L was designed to fit in the same location as the 5.7L gasser. So you if you wanted to you should be able to fit a 5.0L in it. The electronics might be a problem being it is set up for a Nissan truck. But there might be other applications the use the Chrysler system.
Apex6000 is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 11:09 AM   #23
Moderator

WF Lifetime Member
::WF Moderator::
 
RichL35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: South Shore, Mass
Posts: 2,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
I would though.
It came with 32s stock. And couldn't tow either. 33s aren't much of a stretch, especially smallish mud 33s.
The only way a Pentastar with 3.73s would seem torquey is with 30s.

In my humblest of humble opinions, Muther Jeep could've given us a more truckish engine with a torque curve that starts lower. And she could've given us 4.10s stock, 4.56 in the Rubi.
My Power Wagon had 4.56s stock with 33s and a Hemi. That was a blissful combination.

My Ram 1500 has 4.56 front and rear... That wasn't a factory option though. Some one left me in my garage too long unsupervised! hahahaha

Boy does it tow my boats nice though.
Hilldweller likes this.
RichL35 is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 12:37 PM   #24
Jeeper
 
Dodge4me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by UselessPickles View Post
A lot cheaper than a Hemi, but also a lot less torque and power than a Hemi.

In fact, it makes about the same torque as the Pentastar, and only 56% of the power of a Pentastar.

Cummins 2.8:
161 hp @ 3600
267 lb-ft @1500-3000 RPM
Max RPM: 3600

3.6 Pentastar:
285 hp @ 6400 (> 161 hp starting around 3500)
260 lb-ft @ 4800 RPM (250+ lb-ft @ 2000-5200 RPM)
Max RPM: 6400

260 ft-lb of torque is plenty for our Jeeps. However, driving around at 4,800 rpm all day long to get it would burn up your engine pretty quickly.
Diesel 267 ft-lb at 1,500, all day long, and as mentioned, you are only breaking in the diesel at 240,000 miles.
Dodge4me is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 12:43 PM   #25
Jeeper
 
15JKUR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Leavenworth, IN
Posts: 941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge4me View Post
260 ft-lb of torque is plenty for our Jeeps. However, driving around at 4,800 rpm all day long to get it would burn up your engine pretty quickly.
Diesel 267 ft-lb at 1,500, all day long, and as mentioned, you are only breaking in the diesel at 240,000 miles.
The 3.6 hits 250 ft-lb at 2000 rpm
__________________
2018 Jeep Wrangler Sport (Ocean Blue)
15JKUR is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 12:58 PM   #26
Jeeper
 
MarkyW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: London, England
Posts: 20
Not sure about the US, but Europe / UK seem to be making all bad noises about diesel fuel and car taxes in the near future.

Even though I only get 17mpg I still think the 3.6 is a pretty good lump, it's the gearbox that is the let down. This may be because it offers better ratios for off road rather than on road performance though....just speculation.

£70 to fill her up and 220-250 miles to a tank, but smiles all the way.

Mark


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
MarkyW is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 01:10 PM   #27
Jeeper
 
SoDakSooner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Okieland
Posts: 2,223
Did you notice the "coming soon" block? My guess is the 3.8 liter.... 170 hp...600 foot lbs of torque....at 1300 rpm...now get you some of that!!!
15JKUR likes this.
SoDakSooner is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 03:45 PM   #28
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge4me View Post
260 ft-lb of torque is plenty for our Jeeps. However, driving around at 4,800 rpm all day long to get it would burn up your engine pretty quickly.
Who drives their Pentastar around all day at 4800 rpm? It makes plenty of torque/power to cruise on the freeway around 2000 rpm. In fact, at 2000-3000 rpm, the Cummins only makes 6.8% more power/torque than the Pentastar.

The power/torque of the Pentastar above 3600 rpm (the max speed of the Cummins) really comes in handy when you need to accelerate into traffic, onto a freeway, pass another car on the highway/freeway, etc.. All of those situations require power. Especially at freeway speeds in a vehicle that has the aerodynamics of a barn door. Having 260 ft-lbs torque at 1500 rpm will not help you do any of these things.
15JKUR likes this.
__________________
2013 Wrangler Sport (2DR) | Stick Shift | 4.10 Gears | TrueTrac LSD Front & Rear
33x12.5x15 Duratracs on 15x8 Black Rock D-Window Wheels
Prodigy Performance Stage 2 Turbo
AEV 2" Spacer Lift
Full Disclosure: Affiliated with Prodigy Performance as of 3/10/16 (explanation)
This is my personal account. My statements/opinions are my own; not Prodigy's
UselessPickles is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 04:00 PM   #29
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
NoGaBiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ATL, GA
Posts: 5,660
I looked up the 2.8 diesel torque curve. At 1200 it's making 206 torks, compared to about 170 for the Pentastar. 1200-1500 is a good place to make torque for a low-range off-road vehicle.

The reason the delta is not much larger, though, is simply that the Cummins is much smaller -- a 2.8 four vs. a 3.6 V6. Turn that Cummins into a 3.6 I-6 and it would really give you some twist.

That said, while it wouldn't be worth the trouble and expense to retrofit the 2.8 for the mild upgrade, it would sure be worth ordering it as a factory option.
__________________
NoGaBiker

Current: Anvil '14 Willys JK 6M, 4.56, G2 rear shafts; Eaton e-lockers, G2 D44 axle up front; 4:1 t-case; RE 2.5" long-arm, 35x10.5" Kenda for Street/37" Interco for Trail;
Previous: Hunter Green '92 XJ Cherokee Laredo 4.0; White 92 XJ Cherokee Limited 4.0; '11 Grand Cherokee Overland Hemi-powered drone
NoGaBiker is offline   Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 05:04 PM   #30
Newb
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Portugal
Posts: 14
Hi,
In Europe, small diesel engines are very common!

VW TDI are very good engines, but, forget the smaller 1.9L or 2.0L for a Wrangler!!!
I have an 1.9TDI 130hp remaped to 165hp and runs like hell in a small 1ton vehicle.

My Wrangler is a 2.8L with 200hp. In my country (Portugal) and most of Europe, this is almost the only available engine for a Wrangler, because of taxes!!!

A 428 DOHC: innovative 4 cylinder engine - VM Motori

sotnasderf is offline   Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off






All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, Gladiator, Mopar and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to FCA US LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with FCA US LLC.