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Dealer Says Don’t Lift

9K views 84 replies 37 participants last post by  cranbiz 
#1 ·
So I’m at the dealer today for some routine maintenance and started a conversation about lifts and any advice or recommendations based on issues he’s seen come in the shop.

He told me don’t lift your Wrangler or add bigger tires. It will change the geometry and stress the driveline causing lots of problems up to and including failed axels.

So I asked if they installed Mopar lifts and if so so do the same concerns exist. He said it was a factory lift designed to address concerns with the driveline and wouldn’t recommend any 3rd party lifts. Since I’m out of warranty (2013 JKUS) I asked if he’d seen any issues with the Teraflex 2.5 coil/shock lift I’m planning. He repeated his statement and said “Do it at your own risk”.

So my question to all with Teraflex and AEV lifts: have you experienced any driveline catastrophes? Is this just the dealer being cautious based on seeing too many failures from shoddy work?

Any add-on’s you would recommend in addition to the lift kit to reduce driveline stress?
 
#4 ·
he could have just said he didnt know jack **** about lifts.....
 
#5 ·
Print off the items included in the “Mopar” list and one comparable from Teraflex or Rock Krawler and ask the dealer how Mopar is designed differently.

Your dealer is talking out of his bum and has no idea what he is talking about. I’m not saying I’m smart, but that’s a stupid comment.

Yes lifting will put your suspension geometry out of sorts but a quality lift kit will include items to put it back in sync.


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#9 ·
Print off the items included in the “Mopar” list and one comparable from Teraflex or Rock Krawler and ask the dealer how Mopar is designed differently.
Why does it even matter? The OP's Wrangler is out of warranty so what the service dept thinks, is not relevant.


Though, I could add that the dealer might have seen some really bad lift installs, over the years, installed by people who couldn't tell a wrench from a toaster. :D
 
#6 ·
It makes good business sense for the dealer to tell you this and frankly, IMO he needs to do this to protect himself and Jeep from liability and lawsuits. I would think a Jeep dealer might be hesitant to give a customer a thumb's up or encouragement to install any third party lifts for those reasons, in the event something goes wrong, someone is in a crash, etc. and a plaintiff's personal injury lawyer starts pointing fingers.

To be clear, I'm not saying the dealer is necessarily right (but some of the stuff he mentioned is correct- lifts do change geometry and larger tires do put more stress on components, but we all know that and hopefully we address those issues as much as possible when doing our respective builds), just posting my thoughts about why the dealer responded in that manner.

My best friend owns two new car dealerships, and I have heard so many horror stories about dealing with the general public so I am more understanding about dealer motivations.

Perhaps others have had different experience with Jeep dealers. Has anyone ever had a Jeep dealer install a third party lift for you?
 
#8 ·
Ok, thanks, that is interesting to me. I guess I never thought about having my dealer install a third party lift because I assumed they would decline. Learn something new everyday.
 
#10 ·
Of course a lift done poorly can create issues. I did a ton of research on this forum before doing mine - on a brand new 2017 JKUR. You owe it to yourself to educate yourself by reading. I can’t summarize here but I determined that a 2.5” AEV lift was right for me. I’ve had zero issues so far. I’m at 15k. I did use the geometry correct brackets although not everyone does.

When you go over 2.5”, there is more correction that is needed to avoid various issues that can arise — steering, drive shaft angles, etc. Less potential issues with a 2-2.5 as I understand it.

Plan to run 35”-37” tires? Of course that also can create premature wear issues. I went with 33” as a good compromise between what I wanted to achieve and not risking too many issues down the road with a new Jeep. And I use mine as a daily driver so I wanted to ensure good road handling.

I’m quite happy with my set up. YMMV. Read up.


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#11 ·
So my question to all with Teraflex and AEV lifts: have you experienced any driveline catastrophes? Is this just the dealer being cautious based on seeing too many failures from shoddy work?
I agree with everyone's comments so far. It just sounds like that "service advisor" doesn't know what he's talking about. Or isn't mod friendly. Heck, the service advisor at my dealership always wants to see what mods I've done whenever I come in because he's also "a wheeler",

To answer the OP's question (and I'm sure many others will testify similarly), I drive a '16 Rubicon and have the AEV 2.5" Dualsport XT with 35" tires and have re-geared for the bigger wheels. I wheel just about every weekend; sometimes its crawling on the technical trails and other times it's overlanding to some remote spot in the Sonoran Desert. My wife follows me just about everywhere in her non-modified '18 Rubicon.

While there is no denying that the stresses on my drive train are different than on my wife's (because of my bigger tires, lift, rooftop tent, full cargo area kitchen) I have not seen any drive train failures in 17,000 miles.

Will it eventually cause things to wear faster than if you leave it stock? Absolutely. That's simple physics. But it's not like you are going to blow up a pumpkin after 10 miles because you loaded too many groceries in the back.
 
#14 ·
He told me don’t lift your Wrangler or add bigger tires. It will change the geometry and stress the driveline causing lots of problems up to and including failed axels.

Your dealer is correct.


On the other hand, driving it will cause stress and the axles to eventually fail too, so you shouldn't do that either.
 
#17 ·
Unpopular opinion here. The rep was not wrong. He was as truthful as he could be while not over committing or disparaging the mopar branded kit. The way you related the answers they gave would make any brand lawyer happy.

If you modify your jeep, you absolutely increase the driveline stress. There is no way to reduce it. It is what it is.

So the question you should be asking is how to build/mod to increase the amount of stress the driveline can take. You will find that list to be quite extensive and expensive. (this is the world I live in, and drag my wallet into kicking and screaming)
 
#19 ·
Technically and legally speaking he is correct. By lifting your vehicle you are changing the geometry of the suspension and by installing bigger wheels you are adding stress to the axles. But I doubt any catastrophic event will occur to your drive-line. Some components lifespan might be shortened though, let say a factory driveshaft CV joint is designed to last 60K Miles and to break the next day your jeep is out of warranty, in case of a lift the driveshaft angle is changed and therefore the cv joint might break within the warranty period :)
 
#21 ·
Maybe, unless he opted for maxcare. Agreed, mute point if not.
 
#25 ·
If you drive faster than 60 mph you'll go back in time and your face will melt. Einstein proved this in an article he wrote for Rolling Stone.


So get the Mopar lift. It's pretty good and comes with a front shaft.
 
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#32 ·
So I’m at the dealer today for some routine maintenance and started a conversation about lifts and any advice or recommendations based on issues he’s seen come in the shop.

He told me don’t lift your Wrangler or add bigger tires. It will change the geometry and stress the driveline causing lots of problems up to and including failed axels.

So I asked if they installed Mopar lifts and if so so do the same concerns exist. He said it was a factory lift designed to address concerns with the driveline and wouldn’t recommend any 3rd party lifts. Since I’m out of warranty (2013 JKUS) I asked if he’d seen any issues with the Teraflex 2.5 coil/shock lift I’m planning. He repeated his statement and said “Do it at your own risk”.

So my question to all with Teraflex and AEV lifts: have you experienced any driveline catastrophes? Is this just the dealer being cautious based on seeing too many failures from shoddy work?

Any add-on’s you would recommend in addition to the lift kit to reduce driveline stress?

I have a 2.5" TF susp lift on my rubicon.. with 35s.. taken if off road a couple of times no issues so far..



I dont know what the Sport axles are.. but with 35s, I believe the you want at least Dana 44s.. hes not wrong about axle concerns.


I have D44s, if I wanna do 37s, I have to reinforce the axles..



I think anything under 3" your geometry is fine.. when I got my tires installed I got an alignment and everything was spot on except the camber was a Hair off.. but if you have weaker axles and offroad alot, I would be concerned with mounting 35s... you can weld on reinforcements though.. good luck
 
#35 ·
Thanks for the feedback. I’m still running factory axels (JKUS), and don’t plan to do serious off-roading. Just trail runs down forest service roads that aren’t maintained, are washboards and occasions deep potholes.

Maybe better off with a minimal leveling kit and move up to 33’s?
 
#33 ·
I lifted my jeep and it was absolutely the worse decision in my life. I now have no money, my wife thinks I'm crazy, and all I do is look for the next mod to spend more money on. It never ends! That's pretty good advise coming from the service manager. :)
 
#41 ·
@manilaboy1vic: I agree with your good points above, with perhaps one point that may need some clarification. The OP indicated he has a Sport, so absent a special order he has a D30 front and D44 rear.

Given the OP's stated use, he could run 35" tires on a D30, but he would want to gusset the C's and also add heavy duty ball joints while he is at it. But he would also need to do that if he had a D44 front.

My point here is that any use that would require reinforcements to a D30 would also be required on a D44. The only significant advantage to a D44 over a D30 is the larger ring gear size with a D44.

Comparing D30 and D44:

1. The axle housings are 100% identical, and just a larger pumpkin on the D44 to accommodate the larger diameter ring gear size (D30 = 7 1/8", D44 = 8.5"). They both have the same weaker C's, that should both be gusseted on 35" or larger tires. They also have the same steering, brakes, hubs, knuckles and ball joints.

2. The axle shafts are just slightly beefier on the Dana 44, but nothing that significant. For example, D60 axle shafts are significantly bigger than D44/30 shafts. The Dana 30 has 27 spline axle shafts, whereas the Dana 44 has 30 spline. However, both Dana 30 and Dana 44 axle shafts have pretty much the same small U-joints. Of course, you want the axle shafts to be the weak point as you want failure in that area as opposed to a failure in the differential.

I think sometimes people get the impression the D44 is significantly stronger than a D30, but it really isn't, other than the ring gear diameter, which is a nice improvement over D30.
 
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#42 ·
@manilaboy1vic : I agree with your good points above, with perhaps one point that may need some clarification. The OP indicated he has a Sport, so absent a special order he has a D30 front and D44 rear.

Given the OP's stated use, he could run 35" tires on a D30, but he would want to gusset the C's and also add heavy duty ball joints while he is at it. But he would also need to do that with a D44 front.

My point here is that any use that would require reinforcements to a D30 would also be required on a D44. The only significant advantage to a D44 over a D30 is the larger ring gear size with a D44.

Comparing D30 and D44:

1. The axle housings are 100% identical, and just a larger pumpkin on the D44 to accommodate the larger diameter ring gear size (D30 = 7 1/8", D44 = 8.5"). They both have the same weaker C's, that should both be gusseted on 35" or larger tires. They also have the same steering, brakes, hubs, knuckles and ball joints.

2. The axle shafts are just slightly beefier on the Dana 44, but nothing that significant. For example, D60 axle shafts are significantly bigger than D44/30 shafts. The Dana 30 has 27 spline axle shafts, whereas the Dana 44 has 30 spline. However, both Dana 30 and Dana 40 axle shafts have pretty much the same small U-joints. Of course, you want the axle shafts to be the weak point as you want failure in that area as opposed to a failure in the differential.

I think sometimes people get the impression the D44 is significantly stronger than a D30, but it really isn't, other than the ring gear diameter, which is a nice improvement over D30.

thank you for the detailed explanation, much appreciated!!
 
#43 ·
Well dealers has a pint but he is also trying to sell you THIER lifts.

Yes, a bad lift, wrong lift, driveshaft not being addressed, crappy shocks/springs, too big/heavy tires can do all of that and depending how you use your Jeep.

If it just a DD, then very little concerns. Going to wheel hard on big rocks? then yes, many concerns.

A lot of good stuff has been said. I will chime in a say a top quality 2-2.5" light and nothing larger than 35's will give almost no concerns short time and made a bit long term.

MOPAR, AEV, Metal Cloak and Rancho all offer 2-2.5" lifts that will ride BETTER and HANDLE better than stock. No drivetrain issues etc.

I run a AEV 2.5" lift on TOYO 35's and yes 3.21 gears for over 20K now and ZERO, ZERO issues.
I have a mod friendly dealer and they looked over things. Its perfect and I wheel it. I don't rock crawl here in SFLA so its trails and mud, plus its my DD.

My JKU handles better than stock as close to a Land Rover in turning corners. LOL. yes, the AEV kit is that good.

no even here in flat lands the 3.21 is fine expect for passing on the highway and doing 75 over the bridges on the interstate. But I am going 4.56 soon so moot point.

so yes, your dealer has a point in a sense. You et a cheap 4-5" lift, put on 37-40's stock D30/44 axles and you going to rock crawl some of the toughest trails or try dessert running at 55mph, etc you WILL have issues and carnage.

Find the RIGHT dealer, 4x4 shop or talk to local clubs and get advice and what they run.
You will love and enjoy your Jeep for a long time doing it right.
 
#44 ·
Find a dealer or better a small shop that wheels. The shop I go to wheels in Old Jeeps, a 4 Runner and a couple other vehicles. It's even better if you go wheeling with someone from the shop or meet a someone from a shop out wheeling, you know they're more likely to know what they're talking about.
Good luck and no whining now...
 
#45 ·
Maybe it's because I've learned from prior mistakes but I usually get a Jeep.
Order the way I want it based on what is offered.
After delivery I personalize a few aspects based on my likes and possibly needs.
I do my DIY stuff and then I drive it (happily) with no obsession to revisit anything I've done.

In the case of my current DD'r (an '18 JLUR) I Rancho lifted (went up about 2.5") went with BFG KO2 35's and am driving around happy as a clam getting rediculous MPG's on a Lifted Rubicon w/4.10's and 35's (21 mpg)

Still waiting for a Pig to fly by and wake me up from my happy place...

Until then .... I'm just happy :)

*I say Do it right and then leave it alone. That's not an addiction - that is just good "Hobby Management".
 
#47 ·
Maybe it's because I've learned from prior mistakes but I usually get a Jeep.

Order the way I want it based on what is offered.

After delivery I personalize a few aspects based on my likes and possibly needs.

I do my DIY stuff and then I drive it (happily) with no obsession to revisit anything I've done.



In the case of my current DD'r (an '18 JLUR) I Rancho lifted (went up about 2.5") went with BFG KO2 35's and am driving around happy as a clam getting rediculous MPG's on a Lifted Rubicon w/4.10's and 35's (21 mpg)



Still waiting for a Pig to fly by and wake me up from my happy place...



Until then .... I'm just happy :)



*I say Do it right and then leave it alone. That's not an addiction - that is just good "Hobby Management".


Wow! 21 on 35s? This highway?
I get 16.2 on hwy and 12.5 in town.


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