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Old 08-26-2015, 12:35 PM
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Do Rubicons have LSD, or is Trac Lock essentially the same as LSD?

I know the Rubicons have front and rear locking diffs. Does that mean they don't have or need LSD (are lockers superior to LSD)? I'm not very familiar with the types of differentials out there, so pardon my ignorance.

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Old 08-26-2015, 12:38 PM   #2
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Rubicons have a selectable locker front and rear. There is no option to change this from the factory.

TracLock is Chrysler's brand name for a limited slip differential (LSD). It is only available in non-Rubicon Jeeps and is an optional upgrade. Without TracLoc, Jeeps have an open differential.

Here's a "lockers 101" tutorial I threw together to explain the different types of "traction aiding devices": The Basics of Differentials and Lockers


All Jeeps (as with most modern cars) come with a traction control system that operates through the computer. It uses the ABS system to detect when a wheel is spinning and applies the brake to that wheel to slow it down. Chrysler calls it the Brake Lock Differential (BLD) system. Similar systems from other brands do essentially the same thing but they all have different names for it.

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Old 08-26-2015, 01:50 PM   #3
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I am curious if BLD only users can comment on snow performance. I skipped the factory LSD after reading about BLD and there being "better" LSD systems (Detroit).

I am considering a Detroit LSD to save my brakes in slippery conditions in that the LSD kicks in immediately vs the "lag" in BLD activation

If members with actual experience can comment I would appreciate it, especially with members who went from BLD only to after market LSD / BLD combo.
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Old 08-26-2015, 01:55 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by PRspawn View Post
I am curious if BLD only users can comment on snow performance. I skipped the factory LSD after reading about BLD and there being "better" LSD systems (Detroit).

I am considering a Detroit LSD to save my brakes in slippery conditions in that the LSD kicks in immediately vs the "lag" in BLD activation

If members with actual experience can comment I would appreciate it, especially with members who went from BLD only to after market LSD / BLD combo.
With the right tires, snow is really a non-issue even on Wranglers without LSDs.
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Old 08-26-2015, 01:58 PM
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Thanks for the response and link. Does it make sense to add LSD to a Rubicon? That would give you all three types of diffs: (1) open diff with BLD; (2) selectable lockers via Tru Lock that are standard in Rubicons; (3) LSD that works with the already included BLD.

Is that a recommended setup, or overkill to add LSD to the already standard BLD and Tru Lock?

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Rubicons have a selectable locker front and rear. There is no option to change this from the factory.

TracLock is Chrysler's brand name for a limited slip differential (LSD). It is only available in non-Rubicon Jeeps and is an optional upgrade. Without TracLoc, Jeeps have an open differential.

Here's a "lockers 101" tutorial I threw together to explain the different types of "traction aiding devices": The Basics of Differentials and Lockers


All Jeeps (as with most modern cars) come with a traction control system that operates through the computer. It uses the ABS system to detect when a wheel is spinning and applies the brake to that wheel to slow it down. Chrysler calls it the Brake Lock Differential (BLD) system. Similar systems from other brands do essentially the same thing but they all have different names for it.
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:03 PM   #6
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Thanks for the response and link. Does it make sense to add LSD to a Rubicon? That would give you all three types of diffs: (1) open diff with BLD; (2) selectable lockers via Tru Lock that are standard in Rubicons; (3) LSD that works with the already included BLD.

Is that a recommended setup, or overkill to add LSD to the already standard BLD and Tru Lock?
You can't add an LSD to a Rubicon. The diff is already occupied by the locker.
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:07 PM   #7
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If you really do get stuck in the snow in a Rubicon, just shift into 4WD low and lock the differentials.

If you're doing more than 15 MPH, then you aren't really stuck.

Just to add, all the Wranglers have PART TIME 4WD, CommandTrac. You can't use 4WD on the streets, when some of them are clear/plowed. Yea, I wish Wranglers had SelecTrac, which adds FULL TIME 4WD to the CommandTrac's Part Time, but that's for another thread.
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:10 PM   #8
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I am considering a Detroit LSD to save my brakes in slippery conditions in that the LSD kicks in immediately vs the "lag" in BLD activation.
It will not really save your brakes. Even Wranglers with a rear LSD wear out their rear brakes faster than the front.
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:13 PM   #9
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Ok so just to clarify for you - BLD is just a computer technique that applies brakes to achieve extra traction. There is no mechanical difference inside the differential. It works great, just realize you can't open the diff and see the BLD, it all happens in the electronic controls.

Differentials fall into various types, open, limited slip, lockers, and spools. Generally, open means the wheel with least traction gets all the input torque, LSD means some of the torque goes to the wheel with least traction and some to the wheel with more traction, and lockers (when engaged) and spools always transmit equal torque to both wheels. Lockers can engage and disengage whereas spools are essentially permanently engaged. I mention spools for completeness and there is no reason whatsoever for you to consider them for any kind of street use.

Some varieties of locker are selectable, electronic, cable, or air actuated. Others are automatic, like a detroit locker, a lunchbox locker, or a GM G80. There are hybrid LSD/selectable locker combinations too, like the TJ Rubicons had.

Generally, LSD's are not selectable, they are always on. There are several types - clutch-type (factory unit), gear-type (truetrac), and cone type (BOP 8.2, for example). Also there is something called a wavetrac which is fairly new and seems to be a hybrid LSD/auto-locker.

In a stock JK, your choices are open with BLD, LSD with BLD, or selectable locker with BLD when the locker isn't activated. The first two are Sport/Sahara, the last is Rubicon.
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:14 PM   #10
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FYI you absolutely can us 4WD on the streets , when they are patchy or snow covered and then clear. Just use common sense. Its called shift on the fly for a reason.
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:37 PM   #11
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FYI you absolutely can us 4WD on the streets , when they are patchy or snow covered and then clear. Just use common sense. Its called shift on the fly for a reason.
You absolutely should not run in PT 4WD on dry, clear, streets.

Yea, shift on a fly, means you have to constantly be shifting in and out of PT 4WD, as you change from dry streets, to unplowed snowy streets, and back. With FT 4WD, there is no need for the constant shifting. My XJ had FT 4WD, and it was so worth it.
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Old 08-26-2015, 03:12 PM   #12
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You won't have any issues with your Rubicon.
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Old 08-26-2015, 03:19 PM   #13
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You absolutely should not run in PT 4WD on dry, clear, streets.
True, but ... I think the dangers of this are greatly exaggerated. I've left 4x4's in 4 HI for months at a time without any problems whatsoever, I only eventually noticed I was in 4x4 when I had to execute a tight maneuver on dry ground. Driving in 4 HI on the highway is very, very unlikely to cause harm. Not saying it is best practice, just saying the dangers are exaggerated.
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Old 08-26-2015, 03:25 PM   #14
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Click image for larger version

Name:	lsd_expanded lsd.jpg
Views:	406
Size:	116.7 KB
ID:	2444265

^^^A example of a LSD!!!!!!

Click image for larger version

Name:	F7303289 locker.jpg
Views:	263
Size:	38.0 KB
ID:	2444273

^^^A example of a Locker!!!!!!!

There are different types and manufactures of both of the above!
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Old 08-26-2015, 03:32 PM   #15
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Thanks for the response and link. Does it make sense to add LSD to a Rubicon? That would give you all three types of diffs: (1) open diff with BLD; (2) selectable lockers via Tru Lock that are standard in Rubicons; (3) LSD that works with the already included BLD.

Is that a recommended setup, or overkill to add LSD to the already standard BLD and Tru Lock?
As was said above, the only way to put an LSD into a Rubicon is to remove the selectable locker. You can't have both at once in a JK.
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Old 08-26-2015, 03:47 PM   #16
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As was said above, the only way to put an LSD into a Rubicon is to remove the selectable locker. You can't have both at once in a JK.
Just curious - can you put a Rubi TJ diff in a JK housing? Didn't the TJ's have a selectable locker with an LSD?

I am not suggesting this, just curious.
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Old 08-26-2015, 03:50 PM   #17
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Old 08-26-2015, 04:01 PM   #18
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Also of interest:

In short the LSD will enhance the performance of BLD making it more effective and requiring less braking.

BLD Explained:
https://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/br...ed-803194.html
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Old 08-26-2015, 04:19 PM   #19
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Just curious - can you put a Rubi TJ diff in a JK housing? Didn't the TJ's have a selectable locker with an LSD?

I am not suggesting this, just curious.
^^^The TJ's had the old generation Dana 44's, the JK's 2007 to current run the new generation Dana 44's. Two different Animals!!!!!!

Yes, some of the TJ Rubicons have both!
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Old 08-26-2015, 04:39 PM   #20
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Just curious - can you put a Rubi TJ diff in a JK housing? Didn't the TJ's have a selectable locker with an LSD?

I am not suggesting this, just curious.
Nope. The JK Rubicon D44 housing is machined to accept metric carrier bearings that are slightly larger than the SAE bearings that were used in older generation D44's. There's no way to interchange between the two. I tried to find a set of bearings that would work but nothing did.

Interestingly though, the non-Rubicon rear D44 is machined to accept the older SAE bearings used in the older generation D44's. So you could put a TJ Rubicon locker in a non-Rubicon JK if you wanted to.
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Old 08-26-2015, 04:42 PM   #21
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Thanks OldDogger and Derf for the info, very interesting.
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:49 PM   #22
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You absolutely should not run in PT 4WD on dry, clear, streets.

Yea, shift on a fly, means you have to constantly be shifting in and out of PT 4WD, as you change from dry streets, to unplowed snowy streets, and back. With FT 4WD, there is no need for the constant shifting. My XJ had FT 4WD, and it was so worth it.


For the love of god, the Wrangler 4WD system is not something special or magical. People need to stop acting like it is. Yes, it is part time but if you're driving on roads that are only intermittently snowy you do not need to keep switching back and forth. Would I put it into 4WD today when the roads are bare? Of course not? Will I go crazy shifting it in and out as I encounter various road conditions this winter? No.
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:23 PM   #23
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Just curious - can you put a Rubi TJ diff in a JK housing? Didn't the TJ's have a selectable locker with an LSD?

I am not suggesting this, just curious.
No, the new Dana 44 is much more stronger, more reliable.. A completely new redesign.. True, the older, earlier Rubicons had a rear Locker/LSD combo (very advanced with lots of parts to go gabloooy).. They we're not deemed as bulletproof as the newer Dana 44.


Advances in BLD and Traction Control software along with Rubicon Lockers is a very reliable combo. LSD rear only diffs have clutches that wear out. A Fully locked Rubicon in 4L will take you just about anywhere you want to go.... A floating front diff along with a rear LSD just won't. Although some feel full time LSD is better in snow. I have yet to see a BLD JK have problems in snow or on ice.

Yes,, BLD is that great. ..And Driving a Fully Locked up Rubicon in 4L (with the Rubi's super low transfer case) on a beach in sand is just about unstoppable.. Again, a LSD (non Rubicon) wrangler will always have an open front diff so BLD will be kicking in, with that said, I see no advantage of having LSD on ice or snow.. Plus, as mentioned above a non Rubicon will not have the lower geared transfer case.... There is much more to a Rubicon than just front and rear lockers,,,,,, Automatic front Sway Bar disconnect, lower transfer case, HD front & rear axles, etc.

Regardless, Lockers, LSD, BLD, Traction Control....... The JK is just awsome (no matter what model) and is still hailed as the most capable off road vehicle.
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:44 PM   #24
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You absolutely should not run in PT 4WD on dry, clear, streets.
really? why not? what exactly do you believe will happen?

in 30 years of driving part time 4wd vehicles in the winter, leaving them in 4wd for months on end, the only thing I am sure about is that on dry pavement the turning radius sucks...
it may be that there is more wear & tear on on the drive train, but it has never been enough to notice any...

so I am really curious what makes the 4wd on new jeeps so delicate?
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:14 PM   #25
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really? why not? what exactly do you believe will happen? in 30 years of driving part time 4wd vehicles in the winter, leaving them in 4wd for months on end, the only thing I am sure about is that on dry pavement the turning radius sucks... it may be that there is more wear & tear on on the drive train, but it has never been enough to notice any... so I am really curious what makes the 4wd on new jeeps so delicate?
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/def_turnpart.html
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:39 PM   #26
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I thought i understood but realized maybe I dont...

I am on a wet street with an incline at a stop sign. The coast is clear and I accelerate and one of the rear tires start slipping/spinning, what is going to help with this so that I can get going and not get t-boned from oncoming traffic? This is a common scenario that I'm faced with. The house on this particular corner waters their yard and the overflow gets the intersection wet so it is an every day occurrence and there are no other ways out of my subdivision.
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:53 PM   #27
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I thought i understood but realized maybe I dont...

I am on a wet street with an incline at a stop sign. The coast is clear and I accelerate and one of the rear tires start slipping/spinning, what is going to help with this so that I can get going and not get t-boned from oncoming traffic? This is a common scenario that I'm faced with. The house on this particular corner waters their yard and the overflow gets the intersection wet so it is an every day occurrence and there are no other ways out of my subdivision.
Select 4H, and pull away from the stop sign safely. The scenario above is in a 100% completly dry environment, while turning the wheels at full lock. Basically, it doesn't apply to much else but a lab test. This mis-information keeps getting regurgitated on the internet in nausea.
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:13 PM   #28
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Who are they? What are their qualifications?
They aren't technically wrong as such...
But they aren't technically correct either...
More like they extrapolate everything out to an unrealistic level...
4wd isn't any good off road? Their credibility just went though the roof..
Someone needs to tell the WWII dudes asap and tell them to stick to the roads or they will stand no chance... Or just call off the whole WWII thing.
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:41 PM   #29
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It's the inexperienced and uneducated (on this topic) who thinks they have a duty to answer what they are reading, even when they do not have a clue. Hey, I read it on the Internet so it must be true.

My advise is learn how your transfer case works and the use your head. Driving in a straight line is fine on dry pavement, just don't make turns.

All JK's DO NOT have an internal differential but it doesn't care until the 2 driveshafts start turning at different speeds. When that happens, something will give, usually it's traction but after a while, something else will.
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:58 AM   #30
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I thought i understood but realized maybe I dont...

I am on a wet street with an incline at a stop sign. The coast is clear and I accelerate and one of the rear tires start slipping/spinning, what is going to help with this so that I can get going and not get t-boned from oncoming traffic? This is a common scenario that I'm faced with. The house on this particular corner waters their yard and the overflow gets the intersection wet so it is an every day occurrence and there are no other ways out of my subdivision.
The best way to not get T-boned is to not pull out in front of traffic.

But in this particular scenario, a limited slip differential would help the most. I installed an Auburn Gear ECTED in my JK. It is a limited slip that "locks" when you flip a switch. On the street the limited slip works great when you hit the gas on a wet hill pulling out onto a main road. It works better than the BLD alone.

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