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Old 12-29-2018, 09:14 AM   #91
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Hmmm...wonder if the dealer is seeking reimbursement for warranty work not done? Example is dealer taking advantage (fraud) of manufacture for warranty work not done but billed.

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Old 12-29-2018, 10:10 AM   #92
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Indeed. Unfortunately it wouldn’t be the first time a dealer did that.

We had a surreal experience four years ago. We are in our 2014 JKU Sahara with 8,000 miles, on a 3-day drive from Los Angeles to Glacier National Park, Montana. It is a few days before Christmas and the Jeep is loaded with three adults and our holiday luggage. As we are climbing from Nevada into Utah the CEL comes on. I can feel the strain of the climb on the loaded Jeep, but it’s nothing out of the ordinary. A couple hours later we make it into our hotel in SW Utah for the night.

Next morning the Jeep is running normal despite the CEL. To be safe, I call ahead to make a service appointment at a Jeep dealer in Provo, where we plan to be later that Saturday morning.

We show up on time and they take the Jeep in. About 45 minutes later our service advisor comes out to tell us that they ran a diagnostic and one of the cylinders is not working and another is giving faulty readings. "That is weird", I say to dad, because I would have felt something had we been driving on 5 or 4 cylinders. Dad, 84, has been driving most of his life and knows a thing or two. He feels the same way. The advisor suggests we go to lunch and come back in one-and-a-half hours.

When we get back he tells us that they took the engine apart and found two bad cylinders. They have ordered the parts and should arrive on Monday. He suggests we find a place to stay for a few days; we should be on our way by late Tuesday at the latest.

So here I am, stranded with my parents, on our Christmas trip, in an unfamiliar western town. This stuff is out of a Hitchcock movie!

We still have 700 miles to go. Our entire vacation is now out the window.

But by now a smell rat: there’s no way I’ve been driving uphill with three adults and our luggage on four cylinders and the Jeep feels totally normal. It just doesn’t add up. Dad agrees. So in a moment of mental clarity I order the advisor to put the engine back together and give us the Jeep; we have to get going. He looks surprised, and says that they cannot be liable if I end up stranded on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere, in winter, with my elderly parents. Undeterred, I insist. He pushes me to reconsider. “Thank you! We will take our chances.” I reply curtly. As he walks away he mumbles “I’ll tell them to start putting everything back together”.

Twenty-five minutes later he shows up with the keys and says the Jeep is ready. I never see the work order and he doesn’t make me sign anything. I simply take the keys from his hand and leave.

We hop in the Jeep; it feels comforting to have our things back. Everything looks in order; the CEL is now off. By now we all agree that (1) there’s no way this Jeep is running on four cylinders; (2) there’s no way they took the engine apart and then put it back together in 25 minutes; (3) there’s no written evidence that they ever did anything to the Jeep.

The CEL never comes back on. We complete our trip without incident.

To this day I don’t really know what that was all about. At best we suspect the dealer was trying to charge FCA for a full engine overhaul when all they did was reset the CEL. At worst...well, who really knows. It was the end of year; perhaps they needed to meet their numbers. They probably saw my California plates, driving with my elderly parents and thought we were easy pray. I don’t know if the average customer would push back on a dealer giving such dire diagnosis. Especially when one is far from home. All I know is how unsettling it is to have such dishonest experience. Needless to say we left Utah with a bad taste.

Having a ball in Montana a few days after the CEL incident in Utah




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Old 12-29-2018, 09:36 PM
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Well, I emailed the CEO of FCA and am awaiting a response there. I am supposed to bring it back in to the dealer on Wednesday to have them look at it again. The problem is the mucket cup. I really am lacking understanding of what is so difficult here, and it is infuriating. I've read through the TSB's, and the problem seems relatively simple. Also, what the dealer is doing(unless they already tried the TSB), does not seem to mesh with the recommendations of the TSB. Perhaps I'm greatly misunderstanding the issue and they have exhausted all of the TSB's, but if that is the case I fail to understand why a STAR case wouldn't have been opened. When I bring it on Wednesday, I am going to speak with the service director, with a copy of the TSB in my hand, and ask specifically if they have followed it, and if so what the outcome was. To say I'm frustrated with what should and in all likelihood could be an easy problem to fix is an understatement. I will keep everyone posted, thanks for the guidance thus far. One thing is for sure, at this point I will not settle for any water intrusion being acceptable, whether it is a "Jeep Thing" or not.
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Old 12-30-2018, 10:39 AM   #94
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It's frustrating as hell, but keep in mind that leaks in general are frustrating for everyone involved, and Wranglers are worse. Anything with a hole in it can let water in, and anything that comes apart into several pieces only makes it worse.

The techs and the writers all know about the TSB. The parts room knows all about it. You aren't their first water leak, and they're probably just as frustrated as you are. They're also in the position of having to find the solution to your leak. What exact part needs to be replaced to make it stop? Believe me, by the third visit they were willing to throw every seal and gasket possible at your Jeep to make the problem stop. One problem with that is that they had to know the exact source of the leak, otherwise you'd be back a week later with the same problem. The other problem with that is that Chrysler would probably bounce their claim because instead of one failed part they would have sent back a garbage bag full of parts that they had no reason to suspect except that they were all called "seal." That puts them on the hook for all the time and parts spent and only the hope that your leak was fixed.

Yes, Wranglers are prone to these problems, but these problems should be solvable. As a customer, solving it shouldn't be on your shoulders. I hope Wednesday goes well.
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Old 12-31-2018, 09:44 AM
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It's frustrating as hell, but keep in mind that leaks in general are frustrating for everyone involved, and Wranglers are worse. Anything with a hole in it can let water in, and anything that comes apart into several pieces only makes it worse.

The techs and the writers all know about the TSB. The parts room knows all about it. You aren't their first water leak, and they're probably just as frustrated as you are. They're also in the position of having to find the solution to your leak. What exact part needs to be replaced to make it stop? Believe me, by the third visit they were willing to throw every seal and gasket possible at your Jeep to make the problem stop. One problem with that is that they had to know the exact source of the leak, otherwise you'd be back a week later with the same problem. The other problem with that is that Chrysler would probably bounce their claim because instead of one failed part they would have sent back a garbage bag full of parts that they had no reason to suspect except that they were all called "seal." That puts them on the hook for all the time and parts spent and only the hope that your leak was fixed.

Yes, Wranglers are prone to these problems, but these problems should be solvable. As a customer, solving it shouldn't be on your shoulders. I hope Wednesday goes well.
I don't disagree with the majority of the above post. I'm positive the dealer wishes that this problem would be fixed so that I would go away and be a happy customer, and that they are most likely frustrated as well. I also know first hand technicians hate these types of problems(rank right up there with an interior squeak/rattle). I was very understanding about this leak situation for the first 3-4 times I brought it in, but am past being patient. To compound that, when instructed by the service manager that he personally inspected the vehicle and found it to be fixed, and then have it delivered with a rear carpet full of water and a worse leak than it came in for, makes me question their competence. Intentions are one thing, being able to deliver on them is another. I plan to shake enough trees to ensure someone competent is put on this problem.


I'll update this thread again once I bring it in on Wednesday. Have a Happy New Year All!
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Old 12-31-2018, 10:13 AM   #96
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I don't disagree with the majority of the above post. I'm positive the dealer wishes that this problem would be fixed so that I would go away and be a happy customer, and that they are most likely frustrated as well. I also know first hand technicians hate these types of problems(rank right up there with an interior squeak/rattle). I was very understanding about this leak situation for the first 3-4 times I brought it in, but am past being patient. To compound that, when instructed by the service manager that he personally inspected the vehicle and found it to be fixed, and then have it delivered with a rear carpet full of water and a worse leak than it came in for, makes me question their competence. Intentions are one thing, being able to deliver on them is another. I plan to shake enough trees to ensure someone competent is put on this problem.


I'll update this thread again once I bring it in on Wednesday. Have a Happy New Year All!
Yup. When you pick up your Jeep from the dealer after your nth visit; find a puddle on the floor and smell of mildew, what that says to me is that dealer’s internal processes are broken.

How is it that you speak with the service manager, get all types of assurances, and then receive your Jeep in such condition? It is not because they want to piss you off; most likely it is because the right hand doesn’t know what the left is doing. That’s a sign of a poorly run operation and, unfortunately, nothing you or any of us can fix...besides trying a different dealer.
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Old 12-31-2018, 02:31 PM   #97
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Just park it in the garage and don't drive it in the rain, problem solved. It will get fixed, many of them don't leak.
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Old 01-03-2019, 09:28 AM   #98
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My JKUR has only had the tops off a few time and only leaked once on the passenger side on a remote camping trip but it was a biblical type event of about 4" in a driving rain. Even the tent was floating at the time. I wrote it off that event as unusual end of the world conditions, if it leaked all the time it would of went back however it has not leaked since. Stay after it, sooner or later there will be a solution.
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Old 01-03-2019, 07:43 PM
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My JKUR has only had the tops off a few time and only leaked once on the passenger side on a remote camping trip but it was a biblical type event of about 4" in a driving rain. Even the tent was floating at the time. I wrote it off that event as unusual end of the world conditions, if it leaked all the time it would of went back however it has not leaked since. Stay after it, sooner or later there will be a solution.
Makes perfect sense. Yeah if that were the only time it leaked there wouldn't be this thread, and it wouldn't be at the dealer right now. Everyone always says "It's a Jeep thing", and in my opinion your circumstance certainly qualifies for that. On the other hand, in a light rain to have a soaked shirt sleeve, and then with a garden hose only to flood the rear floor boards, that is a real problem!

The dealer says they have it fixed now, they were detailing it for me(right before a camping and off roading trip...sigh), and I'm supposed to pick it up tomorrow morning. Jeep Cares has been talking with the service director along with myself. I will witness their leak test tomorrow before I agree it is fixed(I'd be on the fence about this after it was detailed if it weren't going to be covered in clay and mud in less than twelve hours!). From there, time will tell if it has actually been fixed. I also requested to be told exactly what was done to fix the leak, not just "oh we added a piece of weatherstrip somewhere". I want specifics. What the problem was, what the resolution was.

The local dealer has been good about communicating now, and I do fully believe they want it fixed too, if for no other reason than I go the hell away!
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Old 01-03-2019, 07:46 PM   #100
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Makes perfect sense. Yeah if that were the only time it leaked there wouldn't be this thread, and it wouldn't be at the dealer right now. Everyone always says "It's a Jeep thing", and in my opinion your circumstance certainly qualifies for that. On the other hand, in a light rain to have a soaked shirt sleeve, and then with a garden hose only to flood the rear floor boards, that is a real problem!

The dealer says they have it fixed now, they were detailing it for me(right before a camping and off roading trip...sigh), and I'm supposed to pick it up tomorrow morning. Jeep Cares has been talking with the service director along with myself. I will witness their leak test tomorrow before I agree it is fixed(I'd be on the fence about this after it was detailed if it weren't going to be covered in clay and mud in less than twelve hours!). From there, time will tell if it has actually been fixed. I also requested to be told exactly what was done to fix the leak, not just "oh we added a piece of weatherstrip somewhere". I want specifics. What the problem was, what the resolution was.

The local dealer has been good about communicating now, and I do fully believe they want it fixed too, if for no other reason than I go the hell away!
Hopefully this is the end of it!

Good luck.
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Old 01-04-2019, 06:53 AM   #101
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Makes perfect sense. Yeah if that were the only time it leaked there wouldn't be this thread, and it wouldn't be at the dealer right now. Everyone always says "It's a Jeep thing", and in my opinion your circumstance certainly qualifies for that. On the other hand, in a light rain to have a soaked shirt sleeve, and then with a garden hose only to flood the rear floor boards, that is a real problem!

The dealer says they have it fixed now, they were detailing it for me(right before a camping and off roading trip...sigh), and I'm supposed to pick it up tomorrow morning. Jeep Cares has been talking with the service director along with myself. I will witness their leak test tomorrow before I agree it is fixed(I'd be on the fence about this after it was detailed if it weren't going to be covered in clay and mud in less than twelve hours!). From there, time will tell if it has actually been fixed. I also requested to be told exactly what was done to fix the leak, not just "oh we added a piece of weatherstrip somewhere". I want specifics. What the problem was, what the resolution was.

The local dealer has been good about communicating now, and I do fully believe they want it fixed too, if for no other reason than I go the hell away!
Good Luck!
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:46 AM
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To update the thread: the dealer reached out to FCA and they recommended an adhesive be put under the mucket cups. I did not leak test with them at the dealer because I was in a hurry to get out in the woods. We had a torrential downpour once camp was set up (My water leak woes have now been transferred to my camping gear! lol). Once the rain had stopped I opened up the passenger door and did not see any obvious water intrusion, carpets felt relatively dry etc. It wasn't the best test as everything was soaked and it was difficult to tell if my shirt was dripping onto the floor or if perhaps I still had some leaks, but the situation has improved ten fold even if there is a minor drop here or there. As stated before, in a torrential rain a drop or two given that it is a soft top I am willing to chalk up to "a jeep thing". I did pressure wash the Jeep once back home and there was some minor water that got in, but again I think that is to be expected.

I'll try to remember to update this thread after the next rain storm.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:28 AM   #103
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To update the thread: the dealer reached out to FCA and they recommended an adhesive be put under the mucket cups. I did not leak test with them at the dealer because I was in a hurry to get out in the woods. We had a torrential downpour once camp was set up (My water leak woes have now been transferred to my camping gear! lol). Once the rain had stopped I opened up the passenger door and did not see any obvious water intrusion, carpets felt relatively dry etc. It wasn't the best test as everything was soaked and it was difficult to tell if my shirt was dripping onto the floor or if perhaps I still had some leaks, but the situation has improved ten fold even if there is a minor drop here or there. As stated before, in a torrential rain a drop or two given that it is a soft top I am willing to chalk up to "a jeep thing". I did pressure wash the Jeep once back home and there was some minor water that got in, but again I think that is to be expected.

I'll try to remember to update this thread after the next rain storm.
Can you elaborate on "adhesive be put under the mucket cups"? It might be a good piece to keep in mind for those w/ leaks.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:36 AM   #104
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I freely admit not being familiar with what a "mucket cup" is. I just stopped at WaWa and Starbucks and very nonchalantly tried to order one and got blank stares so at least I'm not alone.

I will say..... I do not ascribe to the blanket excuse offered by many that leaks are simply a "Jeep thing". No they aren't.

Good luck with it.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:40 AM
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I freely admit not being familiar with what a "mucket cup" is. I just stopped at WaWa and Starbucks and very nonchalantly tried to order one and got blank stares so at least I'm not alone.

I will say..... I do not ascribe to the blanket excuse offered by many that leaks are simply a "Jeep thing". No they aren't.

Good luck with it.
LOL! The "mucket cups" are the rubber seals that are on the "B" pillar that the top portion of the front and rear doors close over.

https://www.4wd.com/p/2017-Jeep-Wran...AaAvgvEALw_wcB
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:48 AM   #106
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LOL! The "mucket cups" are the rubber seals that are on the "B" pillar that the top portion of the front and rear doors close over.

https://www.4wd.com/p/2017-Jeep-Wran...AaAvgvEALw_wcB
Ok itís been a while since I read your saga from the start, so yours was leaking from the b pillar area?
Where did they add the sealant. I assume more butyl.
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:15 PM   #107
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To update the thread: the dealer reached out to FCA and they recommended an adhesive be put under the mucket cups. I did not leak test with them at the dealer because I was in a hurry to get out in the woods. We had a torrential downpour once camp was set up (My water leak woes have now been transferred to my camping gear! lol). Once the rain had stopped I opened up the passenger door and did not see any obvious water intrusion, carpets felt relatively dry etc. It wasn't the best test as everything was soaked and it was difficult to tell if my shirt was dripping onto the floor or if perhaps I still had some leaks, but the situation has improved ten fold even if there is a minor drop here or there. As stated before, in a torrential rain a drop or two given that it is a soft top I am willing to chalk up to "a jeep thing". I did pressure wash the Jeep once back home and there was some minor water that got in, but again I think that is to be expected.

I'll try to remember to update this thread after the next rain storm.
Yay! That’s great to hear!

The entire ordeal was an adventure. Wasn’t it fun? Owning a Jeep ain’t for the faint of heart.

Time to enjoy that Jeep.

PS - FCA wouldn’t be exaggerating if it adopted the tag line “Your adventure begins the moment you walk into a Jeep dealership!”
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:03 AM   #108
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Good to hear that you got some attention and hopefully a workable solution, we at least now know what a "mucket cup" is ….sorta. Such forums do provide good info for other owners. Now go enjoy your Wrangler
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:28 PM
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Secondary update: Totally done with this dealership. While the leak hasn't come back, I specifically asked for the brakes to be checked less than 5k ago. Report back was everything was in great shape. Less than 5k miles later the rear brakes are metal to metal. Granted, I should have checked them myself, and not waited when I heard the squeaking noise. In my defense, I heard the noise during a wheeling trip, and stupidly assumed it was dirt in the pads. By the time I got home, the noise was gone except intermittently, and by the time I got around to it I was metal to metal on the inner right pad. Keep in mind this is less than 5k miles from when I was told "brakes are in great shape", and handed a report that had all the pads in the "green". If you are in the Sarasota area of Florida, PM me and I will tell you which dealer to avoid. Between the 8 visit water leak, leaving the engine bay cover loose, multiple times of "no problem found" followed by "oh we found the obvious problem", and now the "brakes are fine" incident, I will never return.

On a better note, I still love this Jeep, and am convinced if I had someone competent looking at it that this thread would never exist. I've never thought being out of the warranty period would be a good thing until now, but I'm more confident in myself than them! lol.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:55 PM   #110
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Or just tell us what dealer it is.

I never understand when people have horrific experienced and then feel some weird obligation to be discrete about the offending dealer.
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Old 02-07-2019, 10:00 PM   #111
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I freely admit not being familiar with what a "mucket cup" is. I just stopped at WaWa and Starbucks and very nonchalantly tried to order one and got blank stares so at least I'm not alone.

I will say..... I do not ascribe to the blanket excuse offered by many that leaks are simply a "Jeep thing". No they aren't.

Good luck with it.
I too refuse to subscribe to the "its a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand" line for leaks, I have a 2 door that does not leak AT ALL! except when I had the rear tail gate window slightly unzipped with out knowing it was (was when I had just picked it up new) and ran it through a car wash, thankfully I discovered that and found all the water when I noticed water where it shouldn't have been and addressed the issue....I just hope when summer comes and I start removing the top I don't accidently induce leaks...




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Omix-ADA proudly offers high-quality replacement parts so that you can keep you part of the Jeep heritage on the road- parts that always meet or exceed manufacturer's specs for quality you can trust. This replacement upper B-pillar mucket seal fits the passenger side of 07-18 Wrangler JK Unlimited 4-door models. Sold individually- one required per vehicle
Im calling shenanigans here....one per vehicle, but it is for the passenger side....sooooo two are required per vehicle.....unless the driver side is designed differently??
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Old 02-08-2019, 07:11 AM   #112
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@Jim74656 - you are correct. Two requires per vehicle - passenger AND driver side - different part numbers per side.
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Old 02-08-2019, 08:21 AM   #113
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My local Jeep dealer is ten city blocks from my house but to get my airbag recall performed,I had to have my elderly father take it to another dealership 35 miles away. Called FCA about it and they were totally non-confrontational about it. I could hear the "shoulder shrug" over the phone. They actually made the appointment at the second dealer. I feel your pain.
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Old 11-27-2019, 08:47 PM   #114
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Thereís a special place in hell for Steelerships. Along with lawyers and politicians and child molesters. Man, I pity everyone that has to go through this type of crap at Steelerships. I hate dealerships with a vengeance. My own personal mechanic is the best one on the planet And thankfully when I have to spend money Iím not gonna get bent over the fence by him.
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:18 PM   #115
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FWIW, I had a center console leak from my freedom tops so removed them and cleaned both the underside of the tops as well as the gaskets on top of the windshield. I cleaned them with one of those dryer sheet type cloths that come in a plastic container like baby wipes. I believe that they were impregnated with some form of lubricant like Armor All.

So far after reinstalling the tops there have not been any drops of water on the dash above the radio. (fingers crossed)

I do still get water on the drivers side carpet after any appreciable rain and am still trying to figure that one out. I too do not prescribe to "well it's a Jeep thing". Being a practical person, I believe that there is a cause for every effect. Finding that cause, especially with water, can be a hair pulling experience but if it's getting in there has to be a way and that can be fixed once it is located.

Locating is the hard part.
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Old 11-28-2019, 04:39 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VelvetPower View Post
Thereís a special place in hell for Steelerships. Along with lawyers and politicians and child molesters. Man, I pity everyone that has to go through this type of crap at Steelerships. I hate dealerships with a vengeance. My own personal mechanic is the best one on the planet And thankfully when I have to spend money Iím not gonna get bent over the fence by him.
I'm not really sure what metalworkers and sports teams has to do with this, but alright champ.

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Old 11-28-2019, 11:31 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by gravitywell View Post
I'm not really sure what metalworkers and sports teams has to do with this, but alright champ.

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Exactly. Thank you.

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Old 11-28-2019, 02:06 PM   #118
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Jeep Cares helped A Lot

I am sooo thankful that I haven’t had too many problems with dealerships. I don’t go to the one closest to me as they aren’t that good (in my opinion).

My step-daughter had a parts delay and I contacted Jeep Cares and they helped her tremendously! They made her dealership step up a little and I was glad they did. It made a hassle of a situation into a slight inconvenience.
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Old 11-28-2019, 11:23 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by VelvetPower View Post
There’s a special place in hell for Steelerships. Along with lawyers and politicians and child molesters. Man, I pity everyone that has to go through this type of crap at Steelerships. I hate dealerships with a vengeance. My own personal mechanic is the best one on the planet And thankfully when I have to spend money I’m not gonna get bent over the fence by him.
So much drama and hyperbole. Where to start?
The best mechanic on the entire planet also happens to be your own personal mechanic. Kinda like a personal trainer or personal chef?
How long btw did it take you to try out every other mechanic on the planet so that you were able to determine yours is the best?
Dealerships and child molesters are the same in your little mind also ofc 🙄
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Old 11-29-2019, 03:09 PM   #120
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gravitywell, Bakes101 and others,

Apologies for the low quality post and for the time spent reading it.

Where I am coming from is this; over the last few weeks, reading about issues like oil cooler housings, heads, radiators, spider gears, 430N's etc... then coming across something like this, the treatment by the dealerships, FCA, Jeep Cares, makes me angry as hell.

My own personal experience with dealerships on the repair side is mostly negative.

Once again, sorry for the initial post.
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