Leaving in 4WD for winter - Transfer case wear? - more frequent change? - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK General Discussion Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Like Tree26Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 09-10-2019, 03:18 PM
Thread Starter
  #1
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 146
Leaving in 4WD for winter - Transfer case wear? - more frequent change?

Hi
We live in Alberta - winter is usually crap and can become crap at the drop of a hat. For my daughter's 08 I want to tell her to put into 4WD as soon as there is chance of snow - any week now - and leave it there until next summer. I don't know if my teenager would be a good judge of when 4WD is really "needed" or not. This seems to be safer - at least to me - than having her go into 4WD to get out of the ditch she just slid into.


But if she does run 4WD for 9 months, is this going to cause more wear or potential wear on the transfer case? If she does this would you suggest changing the oil more frequently than "normal"? How often?


Thanks for the help.

Frznrth is offline   Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 03:27 PM   #2
Jeeper
 
rgreen65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: S. Georgia
Posts: 5,739
Absolutely NOT. Yes, Hotlanta has an occasional snow, but generally the pavement is clear and DRY. Never, ever run 4WD on dry pavement. You can easily grenade the
transfer case that way.

When you put the transfer case into 4WD, you essentially lock the front and rear driveshafts together. Since it is unlikely that even though the tires on the front and rear axle are the same size and pressure that they will have the exact same rolling radius. Thus something has to slip with the difference. On wet or slippery pavement the tire do, on dry pavement, they can't and put pressure on the internals of the transfer case.

You would be better off showing her how to put it in 4 and take it out (on dirt or grass) and have her practice, so she can use it when the streets are slippery. Also be sure to advise her that while in 4WD she can go better than the vehicles around her but can't stop any better. (Some people tend to forget this).
ChuffHugginLoognat likes this.

__________________
2003 Light Khaki TJ Rubicon, Manual, Soft Top
2015 Anvil JKU Sahara, Auto, Hard Top - Traded
2017 Chief JKU Chief, Auto, Hard Top
rgreen65 is online now   Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 03:32 PM   #3
Jeeper
 
cranbiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Reidsville, NC
Posts: 2,410
JK's can shift from 2 wd to 4 hi on the fly. If the road conditions are bad enough for 4 hi, she won't be going fast enough to prevent shifting into 4 hi.

Like said before, don't use 4 hi or 4 lo on dry pavement.
Hilldweller and cdnguy like this.
__________________
KN4BBA

06 KJ
12 JK,2.5" Teraflex lift, 3/4 spacers ,Bilstein 5100's,BFG KM3's 37x12.5/R17 with beadlocks.
17 WK2 Trailhawk
cranbiz is offline   Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-10-2019, 03:56 PM   #4
Jeeper
 
Blastek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,864
IMO, leaving it in 4H all the time is much more dangerous than having a 2WD wrangler. In 4H, it will not handle nice around corners and it can catch a novice driver off guard. This is especially true if it's a mixed surface. I assume she'll also actually want to park in a parking lot at some point and make sharp turns? Not a good idea.

It sounds like you should trade the JK in on something with AWD.
SkyMaster, cdnguy, kraigc3 and 1 others like this.
__________________
2012 Deep Cherry Red JKU Sport S - Tickastar, 6 speed, 3.73, Dual Tops
Blastek is offline   Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 04:16 PM   #5
THE MIGHTY GRIZZLY!

5-Year WF Supporting Member
WF Lifetime Member
::WF Moderator::
 
Old Dogger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: AZ. In the Ponderosa Pine Country, where the Bears are hungry..
Posts: 25,264
No, no and no..don't do that! They are not designed for what you want to do. That would cause very expensive repaires..plus it is unsafe !
CTarna likes this.
__________________
1974 CJ5, 2003 TJ, 2013 2 door Black Rubicon, auto, with 4.10 ratio.
Shaking at 40-70 MPH, Read this!!!

The Mighty Grizzly is not concerned,
with
the needs of the Hunter....


Click here and become a WF supporting Member
Old Dogger is offline   Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 04:28 PM   #6
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frznrth View Post
Hi
We live in Alberta - winter is usually crap and can become crap at the drop of a hat. For my daughter's 08 I want to tell her to put into 4WD as soon as there is chance of snow -
saskatchewan checking in


don't do it

bad idea

just teach her to put it into 4hi when she has trouble getting it started moving
CTarna and cdnguy like this.
Tikker is offline   Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 04:57 PM   #7
Jeeper
 
derf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 3,380
Yep. Bad idea all around.

4WD is not AWD. There is a difference. 4WD in a JK will cause tremendous wear on the whole drivetrain if you drive it on the street. You'll likely break the rzeppa joints on the driveshafts pretty quickly.

AWD is designed to run on dry pavement without breaking anything. But the JK doesn't have AWD. So don't leave it in 4HI.


Teach your kid a simple lesson. If you can't get the Jeep started moving, you need to shift into 4WD. When it's convenient, shift back into 2WD. That's all you need 4WD for.
__________________
2012 JK - 3.6/NSG370/4spd Atlas/D30/D44
2001 XJ - 4.0/AW4/NP242/D44/D44
1986 J10 - 401/700R4/NP208/D44HD/D60FF

My gear ratio calculator
derf is offline   Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 04:59 PM
Thread Starter
  #8
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 146
Thanks. I did not realize that 4WD was an issue on dry pavement. So unless the roads are covered in snow just leave it in 2WD?

But is the ESP more effective in 4WD than in 2WD? Or does the ESP just apply break and not power to correct skids?

I’m wondering about black ice that definitely happens around here even when the roads are fairly snow free. Not that even ESP would likely help on black ice but surely it couldn’t hurt.
Frznrth is offline   Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 05:12 PM   #9
Jeeper
 
PlaynWithFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frznrth View Post
as soon as there is chance of snow - any week now
I don't even want to think about snow yet hehe, at any rate I think we are still good for a few more weeks, at least before there is enough to warrant putting it into 4wd. The 4wd can be engaged/disengaged at speeds up to 70km/h so its always there if needed. As rgreen suggested just take her out and show her, it should be both fun and educational, also it would be a good test to make sure the 4wd is working properly before the snow hits.
PlaynWithFire is offline   Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 05:17 PM   #10
Jeeper
 
derf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 3,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frznrth View Post
Thanks. I did not realize that 4WD was an issue on dry pavement. So unless the roads are covered in snow just leave it in 2WD?

But is the ESP more effective in 4WD than in 2WD? Or does the ESP just apply break and not power to correct skids?

Iím wondering about black ice that definitely happens around here even when the roads are fairly snow free. Not that even ESP would likely help on black ice but surely it couldnít hurt.
ESP is a full traction control system. It applies when braking and accelerating both. And it works in both 2WD and 4WD.

Nothing short of studded snow tires or chains will help with black ice. And even then they only help so much.
__________________
2012 JK - 3.6/NSG370/4spd Atlas/D30/D44
2001 XJ - 4.0/AW4/NP242/D44/D44
1986 J10 - 401/700R4/NP208/D44HD/D60FF

My gear ratio calculator
derf is offline   Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 07:12 PM   #11
Jeeper
 
Bob Sanders's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 3,685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frznrth View Post
Hi
We live in Alberta - winter is usually crap and can become crap at the drop of a hat. For my daughter's 08 I want to tell her to put into 4WD as soon as there is chance of snow - any week now - and leave it there until next summer. I don't know if my teenager would be a good judge of when 4WD is really "needed" or not. This seems to be safer - at least to me - than having her go into 4WD to get out of the ditch she just slid into.


But if she does run 4WD for 9 months, is this going to cause more wear or potential wear on the transfer case? If she does this would you suggest changing the oil more frequently than "normal"? How often?


Thanks for the help.

I'm in Manitoba.
I'm in 4wd on first snowfall and it stays that way for the entire Winter.


As long as you have some form of slippery surface under your wheels no damage will occur other than normal wear/tear.


We're a little different than Alberta though. Once our snow hits it's cold enough so it doesn't leave until the Spring and there is always a layer of ice between you and the ground. Alberta with the Mountains, the snow can dry up, and that's when you should flip it back into 2wd.



4wd on dry pavement will most definitely do premature damage. Front and rear wheels are no different than left and right wheels in that there are times when they need to turn at different speeds. Left and right wheels have a differential to accomplish this but front and rear wheels (on a part time 4wd vehicle) are directly connected and there is no 'differential' built in to allow them to turn at different speeds. Therefore a slippery surface is NEEDED in order to take the place of a differential to allow the wheels to slip a little when they have to turn at different speeds. You can't get that necessary slippage on dry pavement so sooner or later your transfer case will pay the price.
Bob Sanders is offline   Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 09:26 PM
Thread Starter
  #12
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 146
Thanks very much for the education. I’m glad I asked. I’ll teach her to put it in 4wd when the roads are covered in snow and to take it out when the chinooks hit.

Unfortunately that could be any time of the year. I remember a few years ago when it snowed every month - even JULY - that is just WRONG!
Frznrth is offline   Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 08:13 AM   #13
QUEEN OF MALLCRAWLERS

WF Lifetime Member
WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
mommymallcrawler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 7,978
The most important lesson to teach her is 4wd is NOT 4 wheel stop!
mommymallcrawler is offline   Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 08:32 AM   #14
Jeeper
 
Wild Weasel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommymallcrawler View Post
The most important lesson to teach her is 4wd is NOT 4 wheel stop!
I know where you're coming from with this, but really... you ALWAYS have 4-wheel-stop. It's not like you can disengage the front or rear brakes.
__________________
.
Wild Weasel is offline   Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 08:36 AM   #15
Moderator

WF Lifetime Member
WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
jadmt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: missoula
Posts: 20,183
buy your daughter an AWD vehicle. Subaru outback, CRV, RAV, Audi (rumor has it some jeeps have it including a model of the new jl as an option)
__________________
2018 Gobi Recon unlimited W/Mopar 2" lift coils combined with RK rear coils wedges, TF lower control arms, rear TF monster track bar and rear track bar bracket and Falcon 3.1 shocks, Cooper ST Maxx 315/75-17 on AEV Salta rims, Grabars, RE gas skid tank, mopar head liner, Warn VR10 and Maximus3 winch plate.
https://www.wranglerforum.com/f314/y...i-2192385.html
jadmt is offline   Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 08:39 AM   #16
Supporting Member

5-Year WF Supporting Member
 
RoadiJeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 6,709
Get her a Grand Cherokee. It has full time 4WD and no damage with driving it on dry pavement.
RoadiJeff is offline   Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 08:56 AM
Thread Starter
  #17
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 146
If I could have talked her into it she would definitely be driving a Subaru. But she loves her Jeep.

I got her the new Haka snow tires for the 4 wheel stopping. If I win the lotto I’ll get her a wrangler with AWD - sounds like the best of both worlds.
jadmt likes this.
Frznrth is offline   Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 09:09 AM   #18
Jeeper
 
Flyfisher590's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frznrth View Post
Thanks very much for the education. Iím glad I asked. Iíll teach her to put it in 4wd when the roads are covered in snow and to take it out when the chinooks hit.

Unfortunately that could be any time of the year. I remember a few years ago when it snowed every month - even JULY - that is just WRONG!
Good idea. Besides...as a general rule, if you drive a vehicle you need to know how to operate it properly.
Flyfisher590 is offline   Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 09:21 AM   #19
QUEEN OF MALLCRAWLERS

WF Lifetime Member
WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
mommymallcrawler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 7,978
@Wild Weasel , technically true lol.
Wild Weasel likes this.
mommymallcrawler is offline   Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 09:21 AM   #20
QUEEN OF MALLCRAWLERS

WF Lifetime Member
WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
mommymallcrawler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 7,978
@Wild Weasel , technically true lol.
mommymallcrawler is offline   Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 09:37 AM   #21
Supporting Member

5-Year WF Supporting Member
 
Smileyor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 412
My first test of the Jeep in snow was in 2 wheel drive. I wanted to see how far it would get without 4 wheel drive. I drove from Portland, Oregon at 125' elevation to Timberline lodge at 6,000' with snow in the hills around Portland down to 1,000'. The Jeep had little difficulty getting to the top of the hill in 2 wheel drive. It wasn't until I stopped in the parking lot on a slight grade that I could not pull forward uphill in 2 wheel drive. It slipped a little. So into 4 wheel drive and off I went. As soon as I was moving I was back into 2 wheel drive.

This is with the Mud Terrain tires that come on the 2017 JKUR. If she has better all terrain tires on her Jeep unless she has a lot of hills to negotiate daily she will probably be fine in 2 wheel drive. Slow and steady is key in any vehicle.

Maybe some dedicated winter tires are in order for peace of mind?
Blanka likes this.
Smileyor is offline   Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 10:01 AM   #22
Jeeper
 
jwt873's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,780
From my 2016 JK owner's manual:

"The 4H and 4L positions are intended for loose, slippery road surfaces
only and are not intended for normal driving. Driving in the 4H and 4L
positions on hard-surfaced roads will cause increased tire wear and
damage to the driveline components".


You can get away with running in 4H full time. (even in the summer to some extent). That is... Until you have to make a tight turn.

If the pavement is dry the front end will bind up. You will find it hard to turn the wheel. Like the steering is fighting against you. (If you try force things, this is where you can cause the driveline damage they speak of).

On slippery roads, the front end will 'push' when making tight turns. The Jeep will want to go straight and not in the direction the wheels are pointed. This could be a real problem when maneuvering in a crowded parking lot trying to pull into a spot where there is a car on each side of a parking stall.

I live in the frozen north and drive in the winter. I do use 4X4 after a snow when the streets are snow covered and the intersections are polished into a layer of shiny ice from all the vehicles spinning their tires.

I don't use 4X4 on dry streets or dry highways. I always pop out of 4X4 when pulling into mall parking lots or somewhere where I have to do low speed maneuvering with tight turns.
jwt873 is offline   Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 10:27 AM   #23
Jeeper
 
Hilldweller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hog Waller, GA
Posts: 8,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frznrth View Post
...

I got her the new Haka snow tires for the 4 wheel stopping. ....
Real honest-to-God snow tires are very effective.
I used to keep a second set of snow wheels/tires for some of my cars. Most mud tires aren't effective in snow. ATs do better but don't come close to snow tires.
__________________
Gone camping,
Bill

"Don't it make ya wanna holla'? Don't it make ya wanna pray?
People, don't it make ya wonder what's he gonna say today?"
-- Eric Bibb
#blackwheelsmatter
Hilldweller is offline   Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 10:39 AM   #24
Jeeper
 
Wild Weasel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommymallcrawler View Post
@Wild Weasel , technically true lol.
The key point to make is that EVERYONE has 4-wheel stop. So anyone thinking their AWD or 4x4 will save them when they're trying to slow down is in for a rude awakening.

Unless you're in really deep stuff. Then it actually helps, oddly, as it makes it easier to lock up all 4 wheels with the brakes and dig in.
__________________
.
Wild Weasel is offline   Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 07:34 PM   #25
Jeeper
 
Bob Sanders's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 3,685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
Real honest-to-God snow tires are very effective.
I used to keep a second set of snow wheels/tires for some of my cars. Most mud tires aren't effective in snow. ATs do better but don't come close to snow tires.

It depends on how deep the snow is.... at least for me anyway. I do unplowed roads and I find the (wide) MT's do a MUCH better job than snow tires. The treads on ST's are too small and plug up easy. The sipes and the softer rubber don't really work as planned on the soft snow either. They're built to flex against a hard icy surface but there isn't much of that in deep fresh snow.


In the city however I agree whole heartedly. I slide around like a kid on snow saucer with the MT's on.
Bob Sanders is offline   Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 10:54 PM   #26
Jeeper
 
DesertRubi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sanders View Post


It depends on how deep the snow is.... at least for me anyway. I do unplowed roads and I find the (wide) MT's do a MUCH better job than snow tires. The treads on ST's are too small and plug up easy. The sipes and the softer rubber don't really work as planned on the soft snow either. They're built to flex against a hard icy surface but there isn't much of that in deep fresh snow.


In the city however I agree whole heartedly. I slide around like a kid on snow saucer with the MT's on.
Yeah the stock BFG MTs did well in fresh mountain snow in the one storm crossing of the Sierra Nevada I did with them, over Carson Pass. Given that they were a bit slick on wet pavement though, I'm glad I never had to try them on packed snow or ice.
__________________
2017 JKUR Firecracker Red | Auto, 4.10s, ARB Rear and PS Front Diff Covers, Adams 1310 Front Driveshaft
MetalCloak 2.5" True Dual Rate Rocksport | 315/70/17 Milestar Patagonia MT, Stock Rubi Wheels, 1.75" Spidertrax
10A Bumpers, Warn VR10-S | Teraflex HD Hinge/Carrier, Vector Exo Rack | RH4x4 Engine and LCA Skids, HD Crossmember
DesertRubi is offline   Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 02:25 AM   #27
Jeeper
 
Blanka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 92
Just don't have her drive like my boss from 12 years ago. She had a Hummer H3, and thought that meant she was invincible and could go at any speed.

Snow flakes started coming down (dry pavement, barely enough snow coming down to even justify using the wipers), she dropped it into 4 low and went 85mph on the highway the entire 1 hour commute.

Needless to say, the Hummer didn't make it, and was towed to the shop. She came to work 2 hours late all ticked off AT HER HUMMER'S 4WD SYSTEM saying it wasn't built well and was a pile of junk. When I asked her how fast she was going, it took all of my will power not to smile/laugh right there on the spot.

I dodged the unemployment line that morning....
Blanka is offline   Quote
Old 09-13-2019, 07:02 AM   #28
Jeeper
 
Wild Weasel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naglfar View Post
Snow flakes started coming down (dry pavement, barely enough snow coming down to even justify using the wipers), she dropped it into 4 low and went 85mph on the highway the entire 1 hour commute.
I don't believe this. You can't do 85 mph in 4 low.
SkyMaster and jwt873 like this.
__________________
.
Wild Weasel is offline   Quote
Old 09-13-2019, 07:36 AM   #29
Moderator

WF Lifetime Member
WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frznrth View Post
Hi
We live in Alberta - winter is usually crap and can become crap at the drop of a hat. For my daughter's 08 I want to tell her to put into 4WD as soon as there is chance of snow - any week now - and leave it there until next summer. I don't know if my teenager would be a good judge of when 4WD is really "needed" or not. This seems to be safer - at least to me - than having her go into 4WD to get out of the ditch she just slid into.


But if she does run 4WD for 9 months, is this going to cause more wear or potential wear on the transfer case? If she does this would you suggest changing the oil more frequently than "normal"? How often?


Thanks for the help.
That would be the perfect formula for disaster. The part time 4WD system used in the Wrangler needs slippery surfaces like snow, sand, loose gravel, etc. etc. etc. to work properly. On dry surfaces it will bind and cause damage. My suggestion is to tell her to read up on it, or teach her how to properly operate the system, and when to use it. I would also emphasize that the odds of her needing 4L for snowy roads are slim to none. 4H should handle just about anything mother nature will deal out for a normal winter commute.

For someone not familiar with the system, full time 4WD or AWD is better suited.
SkyMaster likes this.
__________________
1988 E-150 4.9L 5 Speed Stick
2008 Jeep Liberty Auto Trans
2016 JK Rubicon Hard Rock Auto Trans

God Bless Our Troops
demarpaint is offline   Quote
Old 09-13-2019, 09:15 AM   #30
Jeeper
 
derf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 3,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Weasel View Post
I don't believe this. You can't do 85 mph in 4 low.
Well, you can. If you don't mind launching a piston through the hood...

__________________
2012 JK - 3.6/NSG370/4spd Atlas/D30/D44
2001 XJ - 4.0/AW4/NP242/D44/D44
1986 J10 - 401/700R4/NP208/D44HD/D60FF

My gear ratio calculator
derf is offline   Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off






All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Jeepģ, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC