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Old 10-04-2019, 08:36 AM
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LED headlight replacements with DRL (Canada)

I know, I know, LED headlights have been beaten to death.

I am looking for specific recommendations for LED with DRL.

Like many fools before me I opted for a cheap pair that guaranteed DRL, but of course it's flicker flicker flicker.

JW Speaker says that their DRL runs through the high beam; are there flicker or too much light problems with this?

Flor those members who are in Canada, where have you bought yours?

Thanks in advance

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Old 10-04-2019, 09:49 AM   #2
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I have the JWSpeaker Evolution J headlights which have now been replaced with the Evolution J2. They are the same basic light but the J2 adds their dual burn technology that keeps the low beam element on when the high beams are switched on. Though I live in the US, I have turned on the Canadian spec DRL’s for my Jeep. The high beam element and the half halo illuminate as the DRL’s, but the high beam burns at reduced power, so there is no issue with too much light output during DRL operation. The light output of the DRL’s is less than the low beam output when comparing the two in the dark.

I would certainly recommend the JW Speaker lights based on my experience. Good luck with your research and purchase.


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Old 10-04-2019, 09:55 AM   #3
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Forgot to add, I have no flicker issues on my 2013 that came with halogen lights from the factory. The anti-flicker is built into the Evolution J or J2 lights, so no need for additional harnesses.

I bought mine from an on-line Jeep retailer (don’t remember which one) that was offering a rebate at the time of my purchase. I know Quadratec.com not only offers the JW Speaker lights, but also offers their own Quadratec branded LED headlights that are manufactured for them by JW Speaker.


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Old 10-04-2019, 11:25 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by griffij View Post

JW Speaker says that their DRL runs through the high beam; are there flicker or too much light problems with this?
Isn't the flicker problem caused by the DRL being powered at reduced voltage (some form of Pulse Width Modulation; PWM)?

The stock halogen headlights DRL is done with the high beam. I am still using using halogen bulbs, but I think there are tools (like jscan (?)) that let you change the setting of the DRL in order to have them at full power, must be full power on the low beam.

Before DRL became a thing, I was turning On my headlights during the day; I did that for 15 years before buying a car with built in DRL in 2000. Having the low beam On all the time during the day is not a problem.

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Old 10-04-2019, 05:50 PM   #5
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PWM is different than reduced power high beam for DRL’s. PWM is a fluctuation in the electrical current sent to the light. With a halogen bulb, the filament glows due to heat from the electrical current flowing through it. The filament does not have time to cool (stop glowing) before the next pulse of current hits it. So there is no observable flicker due to PWM. With an LED, there is an immediate loss of light output when the current is cut, so the flickering that is seen is the LED turning on and off with each pulse of electrical current. When a high beam is used for DRL’s, the element is just energized at a lower voltage, which provides a dimmer light than when fully powered.


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Old 10-04-2019, 07:30 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by dwtgolden View Post
PWM is different than reduced power high beam for DRL’s..... When a high beam is used for DRL’s, the element is just energized at a lower voltage, which provides a dimmer light than when fully powered.

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Well, PWM is what I think is used to from the factory to power the high beam DRL on halogen headlight.

I do not know how DRL works with factory LED headlight; it could be full power on the low beam, it could be PWM with a different "frequency" on the high beam.

I do not think there is a lower DC voltage applied to the LED headlight. LED typically do not respond well to lower DC voltage.

But, I do not want to argue with you, because I think that we talking about the same thing; we are just not using the same words.

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Old 10-04-2019, 08:35 PM   #7
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Well, PWM is what I think is used to from the factory to power the high beam DRL on halogen headlight.

Definitely not arguing and welcome anyone who can provide more info. It is my understanding that PWM is used to power all modes of operation for halogen headlight equipped Jeeps. I have seen an LED headlight flicker with normal low beams on due to PWM.

The JW Speaker headlights have circuitry built-in to defeat the effects of PWM on the LED so that an anti-flicker harness is not necessary. They also advertise that they are designed to work with the DRL function. I can attest that they work as that is what I have installed on my 2013 that came with halogens and I enabled the “low power” high beam DRL option with an AEV ProCal.

Jeep may be using something other than decreased voltage to achieve the low-intensity high beam DRL function, but I understand that was the common manner of achieving this, at least before the onslaught of LED headlights.

I have also read that if you install factory LED headlights in a halogen equipped Jeep, they will flicker unless you use an anti-flicker harness or flash the computer with the LED option code to eliminate the PWM.

I’m certainly not an electrical engineer, so just passing on what I have read and what I have experienced.


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Old 10-04-2019, 09:56 PM   #8
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Flicker, Flicker, Flicker

I bought a Canadian Jeep, daylight running lights, and swaped to LED's. Now I have the flicker problem and I even used the harness supplied with the lights. The question I have, is there a way to turn off the daylight running lights? It used to be just remove the fuse but I can't locate that either.
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:04 PM   #9
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I bought a Canadian Jeep, daylight running lights, and swaped to LED's. Now I have the flicker problem and I even used the harness supplied with the lights. The question I have, is there a way to turn off the daylight running lights? It used to be just remove the fuse but I can't locate that either.


You can change the DRL options by using a programmer like the AEV ProCal or the J Scan app. You have the choice of low power high beams, fog lights, turn signals, or no DRL.


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Old 10-05-2019, 09:14 PM   #10
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OBD JScan gives a lot of option for the DRL:
-Off
-Turn Signal DRL
-Low Beam DRL
-Fog Lamp DRL
-Euro DRL
-High Beam DRL
-Standard DRL
-High Beam DRL 50%

There is also a "Daytime running light On/Off"

And "LED Quad Headlamps On/Off"

I never used it myself, I only installed the demo version on my phone.

Unfortunately, there is no explanation to all these options.

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Old 10-05-2019, 10:38 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by griffij View Post
I know, I know, LED headlights have been beaten to death.

I am looking for specific recommendations for LED with DRL.

Like many fools before me I opted for a cheap pair that guaranteed DRL, but of course it's flicker flicker flicker.

JW Speaker says that their DRL runs through the high beam; are there flicker or too much light problems with this?

Flor those members who are in Canada, where have you bought yours?

Thanks in advance

There is no law in Canada which states your DRL's MUST be run through high beams. You have a choice (drl's as low beams, low voltage high beams, front running lights, or fog lights) and you can program that choice into your jeep in a number of different ways.



I'm in Manitoba and I have mine set on front running lights. The DRL law is Federal, not Provincial so you can do the same if you wish.
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Old 10-06-2019, 06:22 PM   #12
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LED Head lights on Canadian Jeep.

Well, after putting in the extra wiring harness supplied from the manufacturer of the head lights and still having the flicker, the only thing a person can do is 1) put the old head lights back in and not be able to see much or 2) when you get in and start the jeep to some place, turn on the head lights and there will be no problem. The head light work the way they are supposed to with NO flicker, its just the day light running lights that flicker. One thing that gets me tho. Why can't the ddl's be turned off for the U.S.? I have seen more people driving at night with just the ddl's on and no tail lights!! Makes me wonder if they even know. Seems like we could get help from the factory about this too.
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Old 10-06-2019, 07:58 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Tomarrell66 View Post
Well, after putting in the extra wiring harness supplied from the manufacturer of the head lights and still having the flicker, the only thing a person can do is 1) put the old head lights back in and not be able to see much or 2) when you get in and start the jeep to some place, turn on the head lights and there will be no problem. The head light work the way they are supposed to with NO flicker, its just the day light running lights that flicker. One thing that gets me tho. Why can't the ddl's be turned off for the U.S.? I have seen more people driving at night with just the ddl's on and no tail lights!! Makes me wonder if they even know. Seems like we could get help from the factory about this too.

Ummm...
Are you not reading?
More than one person has told you now that they CAN be turned off.
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Old 10-07-2019, 10:57 AM   #14
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Ummm...
Are you not reading?
More than one person has told you now that they CAN be turned off.

As a matter of fact, I am reading and for your information, the day light driving lights CAN NOT be turned off. The dealer tried and could not do it. It seems the factory has deemed these damn lights a safety item. I have tried to turn them off using his reader/programmer and then disconnect the battery and reconnect. So now I turn on the head lights so I don't blink at people as I drive down the road. I hope I have answered all of you questions that I could possibly answer. AND NO, I AM NOT BEING NASTY AT THIS POINT.
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Old 10-07-2019, 12:39 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Tomarrell66 View Post
As a matter of fact, I am reading and for your information, the day light driving lights CAN NOT be turned off. The dealer tried and could not do it. It seems the factory has deemed these damn lights a safety item. I have tried to turn them off using his reader/programmer and then disconnect the battery and reconnect. So now I turn on the head lights so I don't blink at people as I drive down the road. I hope I have answered all of you questions that I could possibly answer. AND NO, I AM NOT BEING NASTY AT THIS POINT.
To turn off the DRL at at the dealer:

Use the dealer's WiTech device. Load your build code. Remove code line "LMK".
reflash and remove any BOMs.

You do need to have DRLs up there so you'd need one of the alternatives discussed. Foglights are legal DRL up there but not in the US.


The JW Speaker J and J2 run DRL through the highbeam at a reduced output. I added LMK to my US build ---- they work great and no flicker. It's just a direct plug-n-play swap for a Canadian build JK.
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Old 10-07-2019, 06:17 PM   #16
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As a matter of fact, I am reading and for your information, the day light driving lights CAN NOT be turned off. The dealer tried and could not do it. It seems the factory has deemed these damn lights a safety item. I have tried to turn them off using his reader/programmer and then disconnect the battery and reconnect. So now I turn on the head lights so I don't blink at people as I drive down the road. I hope I have answered all of you questions that I could possibly answer. AND NO, I AM NOT BEING NASTY AT THIS POINT.

Baloney.
I suggest you change dealers because the one you're going to hasn't a clue what they're talking about.



I have a Canadian jeep... and I'm even in Canada where DRL's are the law. I can easily turn them off. Indeed, just tested it. (used OBD Jscan) They turn off just fine. Not only can you turn them on/off but they can be easily changed to running or fog lights (check local laws)
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Old 10-07-2019, 06:45 PM   #17
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I’m in Canada as well. I’ve purchased inexpensive LED headlights few years ago.
The DRL didn’t work at all after installation, so I decided to get ProCal gadget and re-program my DRL to use front signal lights.
This is legal option in Canada as far as DRL’s are concern.
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Old 10-08-2019, 01:56 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by SkyMaster View Post

I do not know how DRL works with factory LED headlight; it could be full power on the low beam, it could be PWM with a different "frequency" on the high beam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwtgolden View Post

Jeep may be using something other than decreased voltage to achieve the low-intensity high beam DRL function, but I understand that was the common manner of achieving this, at least before the onslaught of LED headlights.
In Canada, the factory LED's DRL is the low beam. They essentially don't have a DRL, it is just the low beam on all the time. If it weren't for the taillights, I would never have to touch the light switch at dusk.

Also, they are worthless in wet snow, which we get a ton of in Ontario.

So to @griffij you way want to consider heated LEDs. JW Speaker also just came out with their J3 headlights which has a heated version AND gets rid of the Ronald McDonald eyebrows/half halo of the J2.
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Old 10-08-2019, 11:13 AM   #19
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In Canada, the factory LED's DRL is the low beam. They essentially don't have a DRL, it is just the low beam on all the time. If it weren't for the taillights, I would never have to touch the light switch at dusk.
Are the factory LED headlight DRL on the Low Beam at full intensity?

I suspect the standard halogen headlight DRL is on the High Beam, at reduced power, in order to not "wear out" the Low Beam filaments.

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Old 10-08-2019, 12:31 PM   #20
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I have Quadratec LED headlights with DRL enabled. No noticeable flickering.
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Old 10-08-2019, 01:54 PM   #21
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Are the factory LED headlight DRL on the Low Beam at full intensity?

I suspect the standard halogen headlight DRL is on the High Beam, at reduced power, in order to not "wear out" the Low Beam filaments.

Yes, it's low beam at full intensity. Kind of annoys me tbh. No difference between driving with the DRL or with the headlight stalk set to low beam as far as the headlight is concerned.

I believe you are correct about the halogens.
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Old 10-08-2019, 10:03 PM   #22
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In Canada, the factory LED's DRL is the low beam. They essentially don't have a DRL, it is just the low beam on all the time. If it weren't for the taillights, I would never have to touch the light switch at dusk.

Also, they are worthless in wet snow, which we get a ton of in Ontario.

So to @griffij you way want to consider heated LEDs. JW Speaker also just came out with their J3 headlights which has a heated version AND gets rid of the Ronald McDonald eyebrows/half halo of the J2.

And that's exactly why I switched over to the running lights (some call them direction lights) as drl. I think it looks better too.
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:09 PM   #23
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This site

Kind of sorry i even put anything on this site asking a question. Thanks for the "help" people and i was keeping it clean since i was kicked of another site for not being nice. But i have to admit,some people on here are quite good and concise with the answers, its the ones that can't say it without belittling someone. With that one, i am done.
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:28 PM   #24
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Kind of sorry i even put anything on this site asking a question. Thanks for the "help" people and i was keeping it clean since i was kicked of another site for not being nice. But i have to admit,some people on here are quite good and concise with the answers, its the ones that can't say it without belittling someone. With that one, i am done.

No one is trying to be mean to you. Indeed we (all) have only tried to help. Everyone here has given you specific, precise, and correct information



You specifically asked in post 8 if there was a way to turn off the drl's and you were told twice in posts 9 and 10 that the drl's can indeed be turned off and yet you seemed to have completely skipped-over/ignored those posts with no response to them what so ever, which can be clearly seen in post 12 when you ask:

"why can't the drl's be turned off"


At this point I can only assume the logical:
you didn't bother reading the efforts made in posts 9 and 10



It was only when I kind of highlighted your Seeming ignorance to those posts did you respond by (incorrectly) stating they "CAN NOT" be turned off.


I'm terribly sorry you feel offended, but the confusion seems to be at your end and not here where people have only tried to be helpful.
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:31 PM   #25
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No one is trying to be mean to you. Indeed we (all) have only tried to help. Everyone here has given you specific, precise, and correct information



You specifically asked in post 8 if there was a way to turn off the drl's and you were told twice in posts 9 and 10 that the drl's can indeed be turned off and yet you seemed to have completely skipped-over/ignored those posts with no response to them what so ever, which can be clearly seen in post 12 when you ask:

"why can't the drl's be turned off"


At this point I can only assume the logical:
you didn't bother reading the efforts made in posts 9 and 10



It was only when I kind of highlighted your Seeming ignorance to those posts did you respond by (incorrectly) stating they "CAN NOT" be turned off.
if you can turn DRL's on (like I did) you can, most certainly turn them off...its just effectively flipping a switch....
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:45 AM   #26
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In Canada, the factory LED's DRL is the low beam. They essentially don't have a DRL, it is just the low beam on all the time. If it weren't for the taillights, I would never have to touch the light switch at dusk.

Also, they are worthless in wet snow, which we get a ton of in Ontario.

So to @griffij you way want to consider heated LEDs. JW Speaker also just came out with their J3 headlights which has a heated version AND gets rid of the Ronald McDonald eyebrows/half halo of the J2.
In all my years of driving in the Greater Toronto Area (~30) I've found that most headlights are worthless in the wet snow that we get here. I'm just used to having to get out every so often (around here gridlock traffic is practically the norm) and clean off wiper blades and a quick wipe of the lights. Granted I've never tried heated lights yet.
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Old 10-10-2019, 03:51 PM   #27
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In all my years of driving in the Greater Toronto Area (~30) I've found that most headlights are worthless in the wet snow that we get here. I'm just used to having to get out every so often (around here gridlock traffic is practically the norm) and clean off wiper blades and a quick wipe of the lights. Granted I've never tried heated lights yet.
I've had two JKs, first had halogens, current has LEDs.

The halogens would melt snow and I only ever had snow build up on the bottom, likely from sliding down the upper part of the headlights. They were crap headlights, but they did produce heat and worked better in wet snow/blizzard conditions than the factory LEDs.

The LEDs I've had ice/snow over in less than 5 minutes in wet snow. They need to be cleaned off far sooner than the wipers icing over. They produce no heat. They are superior to the halogens in every other way, but it's irrelevant. It may be fine to sit in Toronto traffic and clean the lights/wipers off as necessary, but losing 90% of your light performance while on 400 series highways or county roads with no shoulder is unacceptable in the winter. I regret buying the factory LEDs based on winter performance and will likely swap them for a heated lens LED.
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