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Old 07-08-2015, 02:02 PM
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Legal H4 drop-in LED

If you've been wanting LEDs and already did an H4 swap, you might be in luck.

From Candlepowerforum:

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
I wouldn't rule it out. Philips has an LED drop-in that works very well in some fog lamps originally equipped with H8, H11, and H16 halogen bulbs. And they are about to release the first drop-in LED replacement which is said to produce compliant beam patterns in headlamps designed to take an H4 bulb. They've been working on it for a few years (these things take a lot of work to get right) and it will be interesting to see what it does next month when it comes out (if it comes out on schedule). It is to be officially offered only in markets with little or no vehicle lighting regulation, but due to the internet it will show up everywhere in the world within a few days of its release. Will it work in all H4 headlamps? Don't know. Will it work better than a regular H4 bulb, or equally as well, or only well enough to meet the minimum beam requirements? Don't know.


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Old 07-08-2015, 02:57 PM   #2
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Thanks for the post .i have the h4 hellas .i tried the trucklites and returned them the next day didn't like the pattern.even after I adjusted both horizontal and vertical adjustments (i bought the screws) im looking for a more white light than the yellowish color im getting from the osrams

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Old 07-09-2015, 04:22 AM
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Thanks for the post .i have the h4 hellas .i tried the trucklites and returned them the next day didn't like the pattern.even after I adjusted both horizontal and vertical adjustments (i bought the screws) im looking for a more white light than the yellowish color im getting from the osrams
I'll try to keep tabs on the progress of them, how they work, what lamps they get certified to work in.
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Old 07-09-2015, 06:20 AM   #4
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Bill thanks for the info. I will definitely be interested here. I do have some understanding of WHY this is important however I think overall many people just snap a bulb in and call it good. Its amazing how many blinding "do it yourselfers" are using scatterbulbs and I am not just saying Jeeps, EVERYTHING. I think they are getting as available as cellphones. Most people should not have on in their car.
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Old 07-09-2015, 10:34 AM
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I received some intel recently that enforcement of illegal headlight mods will increase in the foreseeable future.
The Director of the Department of Public Safety in SC is going to make PSAs about it and insist that LE become educated. It's a national concern that's beginning to be recognized.

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SECTION 56-5-4840. Selling or using devices or equipment to change design or performance of lamps or reflectors.

It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, offer for sale or use any device or equipment which tends to change the original design or performance of any head lamps or any other lamps or reflectors required by law to be attached to motor vehicles, trailers or semitrailers unless the equipment or device has been approved by the director of the Department of Public Safety.
I have a friend who is scheduled to sit down with the DPS and advise on this.

So, all the people in on the group buys of illegal LED lights, give it a think.
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Old 07-09-2015, 10:42 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
I received some intel recently that enforcement of illegal headlight mods will increase in the foreseeable future.
The Director of the Department of Public Safety in SC is going to make PSAs about it and insist that LE become educated. It's a national concern that's beginning to be recognized.



I have a friend who is scheduled to sit down with the DPS and advise on this.

So, all the people in on the group buys of illegal LED lights, give it a think.
Based on that, it seems that there should be as much attention on the "sellers" as there could be on the "users"... It should simply be illegal to sell the non compliant products. Firm up the law, and put a $5000 fine on each of the "sellers" and we have a new source of revenue for fixing up some of our crappy roads.
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Old 07-09-2015, 11:09 AM   #7
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Based on that, it seems that there should be as much attention on the "sellers" as there could be on the "users"... It should simply be illegal to sell the non compliant products. Firm up the law, and put a $5000 fine on each of the "sellers" and we have a new source of revenue for fixing up some of our crappy roads.
Would'nt a simple "off road use only" disclaimer cover them ? my led fog light bulbs were sold as such.
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Old 07-09-2015, 11:22 AM
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Based on that, it seems that there should be as much attention on the "sellers" as there could be on the "users"... It should simply be illegal to sell the non compliant products. Firm up the law, and put a $5000 fine on each of the "sellers" and we have a new source of revenue for fixing up some of our crappy roads.
The fine for sellers is actually $10K per item.


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Would'nt a simple "off road use only" disclaimer cover them ? my led fog light bulbs were sold as such.
Nope.
The law is such that any item sold that fits a road-worthy vehicle has to be compliant. Disclaimers are not a way around the law.
That's why ATVs have such funky lights.
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Old 07-09-2015, 11:51 AM   #9
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Fog lights are not required equipment. It says any light or reflector required.
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Old 07-09-2015, 12:08 PM   #10
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The fine for sellers is actually $10K per item.


Nope.
The law is such that any item sold that fits a road-worthy vehicle has to be compliant. Disclaimers are not a way around the law.
That's why ATVs have such funky lights.
What is thier definition of "fit" ? i can "fit" a house bulb into my jeep headlight assembly if i really wanted to. the fog light bulbs i got had to be modified to fit in the housing, they were also listed as a different bulb standard and not as a replacement.
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Old 07-09-2015, 12:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
The fine for sellers is actually $10K per item.


Nope.
The law is such that any item sold that fits a road-worthy vehicle has to be compliant. Disclaimers are not a way around the law.
That's why ATVs have such funky lights.
The $10k works for me, my number was just for example...

There must be something that doesn't quite close the loop on applying the statute in the real world. Otherwise there wouldn't be 100,000 vendors selling the illegal products.
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Old 07-09-2015, 01:24 PM
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Fog lights are not required equipment. It says any light or reflector required.
Well, yeah, there is that.
Some states have laws where fogs can't be on during good weather, some that they can't be overly bright. Most states ignore them though.


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...
There must be something that doesn't quite close the loop on applying the statute in the real world. Otherwise there wouldn't be 100,000 vendors selling the illegal products.
Hard to prosecute sometimes. And not enough manpower.
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Old 07-09-2015, 01:44 PM   #13
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I have wanted to yellow up my fogs like daniel stern has on his site but we have less than 5 foggy days a year and never use them.
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Old 08-06-2015, 06:44 PM   #14
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Any more in the h4 LED?
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Old 08-07-2015, 04:03 AM
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Any more in the h4 LED?
Nah ---- They'll get to it though. It'll be a money maker for them even if it doesn't work very well.
That's the pity. People buy cool crap just for the cool factor. I'm hoping that this product will actually work...
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Old 08-07-2015, 02:34 PM   #16
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Thanks for the reply. Im quite happy with my hellas . If i can get the same light output and pattern from the LED bulb I would have to keep buying bulbs every 12-15 months
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Old 08-07-2015, 02:41 PM   #17
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Thanks for the reply. Im quite happy with my hellas . If i can get the same light output and pattern from the LED bulb I would have to keep buying bulbs every 12-15 months
Not to hijack the thread, but are your Hella's the vision Plus that I see on Amazon for ~$39 each? Thanks!
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Old 08-07-2015, 02:42 PM
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Thanks for the reply. Im quite happy with my hellas . If i can get the same light output and pattern from the LED bulb I would have to keep buying bulbs every 12-15 months
I hear ya.
The problem is getting it right.

At the moment there are several drop-in LEDs that work HORRIBLY. The placement of the light is poor and light goes all over. I saw a popular H-13 drop-in used in an FJC; light was shooting up into the air bad enough to turn off streetlights. Think about how that blinds on-coming traffic.

I hope they can do it. The market for them will be huge, even if it only works in one lamp like a Cibie, Hella, or Koito.

The last thing we want is a light that's technically legal, has an appealing color, but throws even less light than our stock lights. That's my biggest fear...
LEDs appear brighter than they really are. The color temperature fools your eyes. So a dimmer light might actually sell well.
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Old 08-07-2015, 02:48 PM   #19
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I haven't had to replace a single Philips X-Treme Power yet... Maybe I'm lucky. As recently as 2 years ago, I worked for 1 of Philips' largest national distributors. I'll see if I can dig up anything on the H4 LED as well. I've seen the "china" lamps getting pretty close to mimicking the filament/emitter locations of traditional H4 lamps which will bring the performance and output closer to what is expected. Still not legal, and maybe not good, but people are going to buy the junk no matter what we do, so better performing junk would be a big help.
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Old 08-07-2015, 05:32 PM   #20
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Old 08-08-2015, 09:21 AM   #21
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Not to hijack the thread, but are your Hella's the vision Plus that I see on Amazon for ~$39 each? Thanks!
they look the same but you'll still need to upgrade your wiring harness .its real easy to convert just two connection to the battery and connect to your existing headlight wires h13 to h4
http://www.rallylights.com/hl28130jp...gler-2007.html
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Old 08-08-2015, 09:25 AM   #22
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Not to hijack the thread, but are your Hella's the vision Plus that I see on Amazon for ~$39 each? Thanks!
The Vision Plus is decent, but the better housing is the Hella ECE housing.

Hella - 7" Round High/Low Beam Headlamp ECE | 4WheelParts.com
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Old 08-08-2015, 08:45 PM   #23
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Like the idea of this- subscribed...
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Old 08-08-2015, 09:19 PM   #24
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The Vision Plus is decent, but the better housing is the Hella ECE housing.

Hella - 7" Round High/Low Beam Headlamp ECE | 4WheelParts.com
Better than the IPF housing you feel?

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Old 08-09-2015, 06:23 AM
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Better than the IPF housing you feel?
The IPF was the poorest performing H4 that I've ever tested.
So poor, in fact, that IPF has never tried to meet any certifications for it.
In other words, it's illegal to use on public roads in North America.

The Hella ECE has a fairly narrow focus field. The highbeam is the selling feature for it; the best highbeam I tested. Monuments are built in honor of the highbeam.
But it's set a bit too far away from the lowbeam and you can't really dial in both to work in harmony.
It is lightyears better than the stocker though.

For H4, Cibie and Koito are the standard for most uses.
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Old 08-09-2015, 07:26 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
The IPF was the poorest performing H4 that I've ever tested.
So poor, in fact, that IPF has never tried to meet any certifications for it.
In other words, it's illegal to use on public roads in North America.

The Hella ECE has a fairly narrow focus field. The highbeam is the selling feature for it; the best highbeam I tested. Monuments are built in honor of the highbeam.
But it's set a bit too far away from the lowbeam and you can't really dial in both to work in harmony.
It is lightyears better than the stocker though.

For H4, Cibie and Koito are the standard for most uses.
Good information! With the IPF housings, and the Phillips +130, it was a drastic difference in light output from stock. If the Hella housing has that much better of a beam, I may have to try them out. Thanks!

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Old 08-15-2015, 10:52 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
The IPF was the poorest performing H4 that I've ever tested.
So poor, in fact, that IPF has never tried to meet any certifications for it.
In other words, it's illegal to use on public roads in North America.

The Hella ECE has a fairly narrow focus field. The highbeam is the selling feature for it; the best highbeam I tested. Monuments are built in honor of the highbeam.
But it's set a bit too far away from the lowbeam and you can't really dial in both to work in harmony.
It is lightyears better than the stocker though.

For H4, Cibie and Koito are the standard for most uses.
Quick question. What lamp did you use in your test of these two housings? I went ahead and ordered the ECE Hella's, and after putting one on last night and checking it against the IPF with the same Phillips +130 lamp, the cutoff on the Hella is horrible, and my light there is scattered. With the IPF, the cutoff is very defined. I'm worried that I may be blinding oncoming traffic if I place the Hella's into service. Also, the visible light output is the same on each from low to high beam. They actually seem ~less~ focused, if anything on low beam with the Hella. The high beam is exactly the same, visually.

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Old 08-16-2015, 07:43 AM
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Quick question. What lamp did you use in your test of these two housings? I went ahead and ordered the ECE Hella's, and after putting one on last night and checking it against the IPF with the same Phillips +130 lamp, the cutoff on the Hella is horrible, and my light there is scattered. With the IPF, the cutoff is very defined. I'm worried that I may be blinding oncoming traffic if I place the Hella's into service. Also, the visible light output is the same on each from low to high beam. They actually seem ~less~ focused, if anything on low beam with the Hella. The high beam is exactly the same, visually.

Jason
Since there aren't any legal 130s to use, link me to the bulb. That could be your culprit.

The Hella ECE will have a very defined cut-off with a proper/legal bulb. It has one of the best, in fact. The problem with the Hellas is that the lowbeam and highbeam patterns are too far apart for the average driver to dial in. You always wind up with too high a highbeam or too low a lowbeam.

The problem with the IPF and a legal bulb is there is no cut off. They don't even have a bulb shield. They're not legal in any country at all. The ones I tested threw 1200 LUX upward away from the Jeep and only about 400 forward. They were miserable....

Where did you get the Hellas? Are they real?
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Old 08-16-2015, 09:19 AM   #29
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Quote:
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Since there aren't any legal 130s to use, link me to the bulb. That could be your culprit.

The Hella ECE will have a very defined cut-off with a proper/legal bulb. It has one of the best, in fact. The problem with the Hellas is that the lowbeam and highbeam patterns are too far apart for the average driver to dial in. You always wind up with too high a highbeam or too low a lowbeam.

The problem with the IPF and a legal bulb is there is no cut off. They don't even have a bulb shield. They're not legal in any country at all. The ones I tested threw 1200 LUX upward away from the Jeep and only about 400 forward. They were miserable....

Where did you get the Hellas? Are they real?
This is the IPF housing I previously purchased.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00..._detailpages00

Along with this Phillips lamp.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00..._detailpages01

And this is the Hella housing I purchased. Spoke to Hella directy via customer querie since they sell direct on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/HELLA-00239580...WH9PA8H9FRHV51


The IPF has a defined stepped cutoff. The Hella does not. At least not with my current Phillips +130 lamps.
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Old 08-16-2015, 09:41 AM   #30
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My Hella cutoff is very sharp and clean for a halogen housing and lamp. I am using the X-Treme Power +80's.

I can't give any detail on the IPF other than they haven't performed particularly well in the instrumented tests that I have seen.

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