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Old 11-13-2019, 07:10 PM
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Question Making turns while in 4WD (4H)

Iím a newbie. While driving in 4H, I see there is a striking difference with what goes on with the tires as I make turns in this mode. Is this normal and if so, can anyone offer advice on easing into these turns without fear of fishtailing?

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Old 11-13-2019, 07:16 PM   #2
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Can't be on dry pavement.

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Old 11-13-2019, 07:23 PM   #3
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The Wrangler has PART TIME four wheel drive. When you engage the transfer case, your front and rear axles are locked together. When you make a turn, your front and rear wheels have to travel at different speeds... But since you've locked the axles together, the front and rear axles wind up fighting each other.

Part time 4WD is only for slippery surfaces like snow, ice, mud, or sand. That binding-up you feel when making sharp turns on non-slippery surfaces while in 4WD can cause drive train damage.
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Old 11-13-2019, 07:32 PM   #4
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When turning in 4WD, it is necessary for at least one tire to slide on the surface. Like others have said, running in 4WD on dry pavement can have catastrophic consequences. Since you will only be using 4WD on slippery or loose surfaces, you shouldnít be taking turns fast enough that fishtailing would be an issue. To further reduce strain on the drivetrain, only turn as sharply as necessary. In other words, make your turns as wide as possible to reduce the amount of slippage necessary at the tires.


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Old 11-13-2019, 08:19 PM
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Can't be on dry pavement.
Happens on slippery pavement while turning with 4H in gear. ☹️
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:28 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Galileao View Post
Happens on slippery pavement while turning with 4H in gear. ☹️

It'll happen ANY time... and it is normal.


In part time 4WD systems there is a direct mechanical link between the front and back wheels. Meanwhile, on sharp turns the wheels need to turn at different speeds... which can't happen when they are mechanically linked. Some slippage needs to come from somewhere to allow the wheels to turn at different speeds so what happens is that the wheels 'hop' a little on the ground. This is normal and to be expected. It's also why you're told not to do it on dry pavement. The wheels need to be able to slip EASILY otherwise you stand a chance of breaking something.


There is one other thing you may notice on hard turns in 4WD... the steering wheel will become somewhat jerky. It feels like it's trying to straighten itself out. That's normal too and a simple limitation of the type of U joints jeep uses.
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:34 PM   #7
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Happens on slippery pavement while turning with 4H in gear. ☹️
Define the slippery pavement you're having the problems with and what you're driving on eg: rain, or snow, etc. Snow for example should be fine to drive in, as long as the tires aren't getting good traction on the road below the snow. Rain can be worse with good tires in 4WD when the tires are making good contact and traction with the road. Bottom line is binding can occur if the tires are making good traction with the road. Part time 4WD needs slip to operate properly when turning. That's the nature of the beast, and can be expected on occasion. AWD or full time 4WD will function on slippery or dry surfaces w/o a problem.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:18 PM   #8
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The only time you should use 4WD on pavement would be snow. Don't use it on wet pavement.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:25 PM
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Define the slippery pavement you're having the problems with and what you're driving on eg: rain, or snow, etc. Snow for example should be fine to drive in, as long as the tires aren't getting good traction on the road below the snow. Rain can be worse with good tires in 4WD when the tires are making good contact and traction with the road. Bottom line is binding can occur if the tires are making good traction with the road. Part time 4WD needs slip to operate properly when turning. That's the nature of the beast, and can be expected on occasion. AWD or full time 4WD will function on slippery or dry surfaces w/o a problem.
i noticed the Jeep sliding around in regular rain and normal/non-aggressive operation in late summer. But now with freezing temperatures and even more slick conditions, it seems like I most definitely should use 4WD at all times due to that experience. This week, the roads have been clear of snow but deceptively slippery so I’ve kept it in 4H. The normal turns are not what I’m accustomed to. Previously had a Compass where a simple lever is pulled and good to go. I appreciate there is (needless to say) more complexity to a Wrangler but the desperate, urgent need in understanding how to operate 4WD while conducting turns, is of paramount importance.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:44 PM   #10
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i noticed the Jeep sliding around in regular rain and normal/non-aggressive operation in late summer. But now with freezing temperatures and even more slick conditions, it seems like I most definitely should use 4WD at all times due to that experience. This week, the roads have been clear of snow but deceptively slippery so Iíve kept it in 4H. The normal turns are not what Iím accustomed to. Previously had a Compass where a simple lever is pulled and good to go. I appreciate there is (needless to say) more complexity to a Wrangler but the desperate, urgent need in understanding how to operate 4WD while conducting turns, is of paramount importance.
There's a learning curve to part time 4WD. You might find yourself shifting into and out of it a lot depending on the road conditions. It is not set it and forget it, that will ruin or break something.
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Old 11-13-2019, 10:15 PM   #11
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Don’t engage 4WD unless on snow, ice, mud, sand, or the like. Do not use 4WD on wet or dry roads, you will damage your Jeep.
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Old 11-13-2019, 10:45 PM
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I think I hear what you’re saying. Good to hear this just might be normal as you’re describing. It’s a Wrangler-specific concern that is common? Anyone in Cleveland, Ohio who can demonstrate their Wrangler turn action? I love my Wrangler so much but making turns with 4H is a different breed.
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Old 11-13-2019, 11:01 PM   #13
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Steering will feel different with 4-WD engaged, its normal. Use 4-WD whenever you feel the need but avoid sharp turns in 4-WD on dry pavement where you are better off without the front-end engaged anyway.

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Old 11-13-2019, 11:13 PM   #14
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You should read up on when to/not to use a part time 4WD. It really sounds like you're using it when you maybe shouldn't be. It's also possible (and common) that some tires can cause slippage in rain.

As mentioned, the Wrangler's 4WD system is purely mechanical. Engaging it and taking turns at speed on pavement (even wet) is going to put a lot of strain on it.

The 4wd system is very different than full time systems or AWD, which are both meant to be on and will compensate on their own for pavement.
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Old 11-13-2019, 11:13 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Galileao View Post
i noticed the Jeep sliding around in regular rain and normal/non-aggressive operation in late summer. But now with freezing temperatures and even more slick conditions, it seems like I most definitely should use 4WD at all times due to that experience. This week, the roads have been clear of snow but deceptively slippery so Iíve kept it in 4H. The normal turns are not what Iím accustomed to. Previously had a Compass where a simple lever is pulled and good to go. I appreciate there is (needless to say) more complexity to a Wrangler but the desperate, urgent need in understanding how to operate 4WD while conducting turns, is of paramount importance.
It honestly sounds like your tires are shot / suck, more than you need 4wd activated.

What tires are you running? How many miles on them?

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Old 11-14-2019, 12:05 AM   #16
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All Wheel Drive or Full Time 4x4 systems have a clutch in the system between the front and rear differentials that allow the front and rear wheels to turn at slightly different rates without binding. They are also designed to primarily be used on pavement.

Part time 4x4 such as on the Jeep Wrangler (and other vehicles) is primarily designed to be used in real off road situations. If you turn tight enough even in 2WD, you will feel very slight binding in the front at full lock. In 4x4 mode that becomes more noticeable.

Most driving in 2WD, you should not notice any difference until you turn tight to get into a parking slot for example and you should not notice any difference as to control, just a bit of rubbing. In 4WD, hopefully the turn would be on slippery surface, you would feel a slight bucking in the front when turning tight.

If you feel slippage in the back that feels like your Jeep wants to fishtail, I would look seriously at the tires. Is this a new Jeep or one you purchased used? If it is a used Jeep that you purchased from an individual, the tires may be worn.
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Old 11-14-2019, 04:51 AM   #17
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Not that I ever plan on doing it but theoretically could you drive for miles in a straight line on dry pavement in 4WD (4H) without damaging anything?
Just curious
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Old 11-14-2019, 05:14 AM   #18
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Not that I ever plan on doing it but theoretically could you drive for miles in a straight line on dry pavement in 4WD (4H) without damaging anything?
Just curious

In theory yes you could-- it is when you turn the wheel that the inside and outside tires must travel different distances in comparison to each other and the rear wheels. The outside wheel has further distance to travel which will cause binding up of the 4 wd system. Also why if you have a rear locker sometimes on a tight turn you can scrub a tire. At the drag strip some 4wd owners will put it in 4wd for better launches-- straight is good--turns bad
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Old 11-14-2019, 05:16 AM   #19
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Not that I ever plan on doing it but theoretically could you drive for miles in a straight line on dry pavement in 4WD (4H) without damaging anything?
Just curious
Theoretically yes. Nothing bad will happen if you switch to 4WD while driving perfectly straight and all wheels have the same size and tire pressure.
When buying my Jeep Liberty, the seller engaged 4 WD on dry surface to demonstrate that 4WD works. I tried myself a few times- no problems whatsoever. I wouldn’t advise it on public streets though, you need to keep the jeep straight all the time and it might be difficult in traffic.
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Old 11-14-2019, 05:33 AM   #20
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I think I hear what you’re saying. Good to hear this just might be normal as you’re describing. It’s a Wrangler-specific concern that is common? Anyone in Cleveland, Ohio who can demonstrate their Wrangler turn action? I love my Wrangler so much but making turns with 4H is a different breed.
It is a part time 4WD concern, in other vehicles like pick up trucks too for example. As I mentioned earlier full time 4WD and AWD can be driven under any conditions. When I ordered my Liberty there were two 4WD options. A part time 4WD system, called Command Trac primarily for off road use, and Select Trac II, a full time 4WD system with a switch to engage and disengage it. It has 2H, and a 4H and 4L mode. Not to get too deep, the part time 4WD system is a bit stronger. I went with the full time system since it was going to be a commuter and my wife the primary driver. I didn't want to worry about her having to learn how to operate the part time 4WD, or worry about her forgetting to switch back to 2H if the roads were cleared. The truth is full time 4WD is better suited for snow.
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Old 11-14-2019, 07:01 AM   #21
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Also, what tires does your Jeep have on it. If stock tires, some stock tires are better / different than others. For example, the BFG KM Mud Terrain tires that come on some Jeeps do not do very well on slippery, wet, or icy, pavement.
But if the Jeep is fighting you when you are trying to turn in 4H that is the Jeep telling you it should not be in 4H but rather 2H.
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Old 11-14-2019, 07:54 AM   #22
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I think I hear what you’re saying. Good to hear this just might be normal as you’re describing. It’s a Wrangler-specific concern that is common?d.
As demarpaint points out in his post above, this is an issue with ALL part time 4WD vehicles, not just the Wrangler.. I also have a 4X4 Ford F150 pickup.. It handles exactly the same as the JK when in 4WD.
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Old 11-14-2019, 07:56 AM   #23
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But if the Jeep is fighting you when you are trying to turn in 4H that is the Jeep telling you it should not be in 4H but rather 2H.

For some reason I always have a tough time with that statement. It kind of leaves people with the feeling that you shouldn't feel anything on a slippery surface, and that's just not so.



The jeep is going to fight no matter what surface you're on. You will feel the slippage and wheel hop on any surface. You will also feel the u joints bind and try to straighten the steering with each 1/2 revolution of the axle shafts. So the fight is there all the time. It's just not as violent on slippery surfaces



When it comes down to it, it's more a matter of experience in deciding what fight is acceptable and normal vs what fight is not.
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:01 AM   #24
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For what it's worth, this is an issue with ALL part time 4WD vehicles, not just the Wrangler.. I also have a 4X4 Ford F150 pickup.. It handles exactly the same as the JK when in 4WD.

We have a very large motor-pool at work (I work for the Gov) and as a result I drive all kinds of part time 4wd trucks. They all handle the same. With the longer truck the wheel hop is even worse.


I will say though... most trucks these days have CV joints in the front while jeep still uses the single U joint design. As a result you don't notice the u-joint binding in other vehicles the way you do in a jeep.
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:04 AM   #25
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... the desperate, urgent need in understanding how to operate 4WD while conducting turns, is of paramount importance.
Quote:
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You should read up on when to/not to use a part time 4WD. It really sounds like you're using it when you maybe shouldn't be. It's also possible (and common) that some tires can cause slippage in rain. ...
This is what Jeep's 4WD does:




This is what a Jeep's 4WD doesn't does:



Read this to learn more:
https://jeepjamboreeusa.com/common-s...cca77024ba.pdf

Disclaimer --- I don't know anybody in the videos but thought the girl was cute.
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:25 AM   #26
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I'd recommend taking time when theres no body on the road and just drive the jeep around in snow and get a feel for driving in 2wd and 4wd. You'd be surprised what the Jeep can handle in 2wd if you have the right tires and keep your speeds down. You should only need 4wd if the roads completely covered. Practice and get a feel for what the jeep will want to do.
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:51 AM   #27
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You might want to read your owner's manual.

Running in 4wd on pavement (even wet pavement) and making turns where you feel the binding will put you at risk to damage or break expensive parts (u joints, axles, aluminum transfer case housing). Just don't do it.

Part time 4wd is NOT the same as AWD.

Part time 4wd is a direct mechanical connection of the front and rear axles through the transfer case. It does not allow for different front to rear axle speeds when making turns. It works in snow and on other slippery surfaces such as sand, dirt, mud and gravel because the surface allows the front and rear wheels to slip and operate at different speeds. This front to rear slippage is prevented on pavement (and slick rock), which puts very high mechanical binding loads on the drivetrain when turning. If the tires slip first, you get the hop or jerking feeling. If the tire does not slip, something mechanical breaks.

AWD, which can be used on pavement and is great on wet pavement, has a slipper or viscous clutch inside the transfer case, which allows the front and rear axles to operate at different speeds when turning on pavement. This internal slippage avoids mechanical binding. This sounds great and might make you wonder why all 4wd vehicles don't use AWD instead of part time 4wd. The disadvantage of AWD (and the reason off road oriented vehicles still use part time 4wd) is that the slipper clutch can and will overheat and potentially fail if used a lot, such as in muddy off road conditions.

Bottom line is part time 4wd is not designed to be engaged on paved or other high traction surfaces. Even wet pavement has too much traction for the use of part time 4wd without damage to mechanical components.
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:20 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galileao View Post
i noticed the Jeep sliding around in regular rain and normal/non-aggressive operation in late summer. But now with freezing temperatures and even more slick conditions, it seems like I most definitely should use 4WD at all times due to that experience. This week, the roads have been clear of snow but deceptively slippery so Iíve kept it in 4H. The normal turns are not what Iím accustomed to. Previously had a Compass where a simple lever is pulled and good to go. I appreciate there is (needless to say) more complexity to a Wrangler but the desperate, urgent need in understanding how to operate 4WD while conducting turns, is of paramount importance.
As others have stated, you're risking damage to your Jeep if you're operating like this. It's not what the 4WD in your Jeep was designed for. Seriously, you're going to be looking at a costly repair if you're operating as described above.
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:40 AM   #29
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Not that I ever plan on doing it but theoretically could you drive for miles in a straight line on dry pavement in 4WD (4H) without damaging anything?
Just curious
I drove 4x4 pickups at work for years. Many times it wasn't until I turned into my driveway that I realized 4x4 was still engaged from earlier in the day. Never did suffer any damage.
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:43 AM   #30
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Maybe itís just me but I shift out of 4H and back to 2H when Iím turning unless the weather is horrible.

The other day we got snow and ice I was sliding and 2wd cars were struggling. I shifted in 4H for the most part but some of my turns the intersection looked a little better so I just shifted back to 2H.

Itís what I love about shifting on the fly. If Iím slipping I shift to 4H if Iím worried I might bind up I shift back to to 2H.


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