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Old 06-06-2013, 01:54 AM
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Question New (to be) Jeep owner... a few quick questions for those in the know...

i have had a bunch of random vehicles, but never a jeep...

i was slowly waiting for 2014 info but it seems like the 2014 is identical to the 2013...

Looking to buy:

Wrangler Sport
White Exterior
HardTop (which i would like to get painted body color along w/ fenders (after the fact))
Manual Trans
A/C


the vehicle comes to: $25,280
(not sure if it's worth the $1305 to jump to Sport S w/ same options)

would then add 4" BDS STD lift, TrailworthyFab 17" w/ 37" tires ideally...




curious what seems to be the best price for a very basic model wrangler JK...
i have seen "19k"+TTT deals at some dealers for 2013 (but that was without a hard top).. are there any dealers on here that give "wrangler forum" pricing for ordered vehicles?


also, what is the best way to get a factory hardtop... i would love if they would remove the softtop and add hardtop but i assume MSRP of hardtop is much more than the option and it also requires other parts/accessories to swap? do all wrangler sport have the holes and etc to install a factory hardtop? (i notice some for sale on here, but all far away..)

-riley






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Old 06-06-2013, 01:55 AM
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also curious rough ideas of rates to paint the top and fenders professionally... or what members feel is fair.. i assume most dealers would have a "body shop" but would want to gouge me.. i just want the panels properly taken apart and prepped to match the vehicle.. this is very important to me.

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Old 06-06-2013, 04:23 AM   #3
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If you are going to run that much lift and 37's; you had better add at least $10 grand to do it right, or you will be dis-appointed with your rig. As far as any painting, you need to check with your local paint shops to see what they would charge you to do what you want. It ain't going to be cheap, by any means. Good luck.
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Old 06-06-2013, 05:39 AM   #4
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You'd be better off get a factory color matched top and fenders cause your looking at 2 to 4 thousand to paint .
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Old 06-06-2013, 06:30 AM   #5
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Might prove to be an expensive endeavor:

1. price for the stock sport (or any other) invoice less 1-2% more if there are factory rebates still on hand

https://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/201...ad-161113.html

retail and invoice prices on everything in the above. For a forum dealer sales, Pat's your man: https://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/201...ml#post3821094 he offers invoice less 1-2% off the bat

2. The factory hard top option 900$ is a textured hard top. You would have to have it sanded down and smoothed out in order to paint it. The after market factory hard top that is smooth primed and prepped for painting is 2700$

MOPAR 82212541 - MOPAR® 3 Piece Freedom Top for 09-13 Jeep® Wrangler JK 2 Door - Quadratec

you'll also need the wiring harness as indicated.

There are already painted factory hard tops available (didn't see white though), selling for 2999$.

3. Similarly the fenders that come with the stock are also textured, there again you would need the smooth paintable ones:

07 13 2013 Jeep Wrangler Wheel Fender Flares Flare Paintable Paint Mopar 4 Pcs | eBay

4. The good news is its trivial to paint yourself: body color matching paint from the factory in spray can form, lot of DYI tutorials on painting the jeep hard top on various forums using the factory paint

MOPAR 82400891 - MOPAR® Touch Up Paint 5 oz Spray Can - Quadratec

from either taping everything off or removing all glass and hardware and going for it. Or you can get the dealer to do it 800$ or so, or even some cheapo shop etc.

or with some luck the dealer could swap an already painted white top out from stock on the lot. Lot of people don't like or want the body colored tops. In the same vein you can monitor ads for take off body colored fender flares and white hard tops (probably be waiting for ever though).

Anything can be done, either by yourself, with a cooperative dealer, other. Main thing is to cost it properly then compare to upgrading to an Saraha base which comes with the painted top and flairs, whether its worth it or not, including taking off is wheels and tires and off-loading those to offset the cost.

Start with getting the best price for the vehicle you are interested in, work with the dealer and see what he says about getting the top and flares painted, compare to doing it yourself, getting the parts yourself, having other paint it etc.

For the lift, others will assist you there.
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Old 06-06-2013, 07:31 AM   #6
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A black hard top/fenders are textured. If you want the look of the painted hard top, you'll need a lot of sanding/filling to do. You may be better off with the factory option.
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:12 AM   #7
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I don't think you can expect to get adequate performance from your Jeep with 37" tires without spending a significant amount of money.

With 3.73 gears (optional) and 37" tires, the infamous "wet-string" challenge would be difficult.
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:40 AM   #8
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You need at least 4.88 or 5.13 gears
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 4DoorCrush View Post
You need at least 4.88 or 5.13 gears
planned on 5.13's but i know the 4.88's have better luck.

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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
A black hard top/fenders are textured. If you want the look of the painted hard top, you'll need a lot of sanding/filling to do. You may be better off with the factory option.
i've got the textured plastic skirts on my 997 turbo that they easily prepped for paint with some sanding.. no filler was needed as they just sanded off the texture.. (i think it's mostly there for mold release?)

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You'd be better off get a factory color matched top and fenders cause your looking at 2 to 4 thousand to paint .
was told they aren't available as option for the base wrangler... only saw the painted top available for the sahara which already has painted fenders.

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Originally Posted by live_slow View Post
I don't think you can expect to get adequate performance from your Jeep with 37" tires without spending a significant amount of money.

With 3.73 gears (optional) and 37" tires, the infamous "wet-string" challenge would be difficult.
not looking for "performance" i have other vehicles for that.. i would however use the proper gears to equal out the 37".. i know my top speed and etc are instantly affected however.

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Might prove to be an expensive endeavor:

1. price for the stock sport (or any other) invoice less 1-2% more if there are factory rebates still on hand

https://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/201...ad-161113.html

retail and invoice prices on everything in the above. For a forum dealer sales, Pat's your man: https://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/201...ml#post3821094 he offers invoice less 1-2% off the bat
i found a base base, no AC for 19k+TTT... which is far below that 1-2%... i felt maybe other people on here have found similar deals or have pre arranged deals w/ dealer.. i assume they are cheap because no AC hard to sell and 2014 coming out in 2 weeks.



my main question is... if i buy the 2013 for the 19k brand new... and i buy a used JK factory hardtop.. is the retrofit simple? (are the 6 bolt holes already in the back? does the roll cage/speaker area already have those 2 holes to twist and lock the hardtop front pieces?
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:18 PM   #10
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^Yes...
Just remember that newer tops have redesigned freedom panels and larger rear windows. Also, you will need a hard-top harness, and will need it flashed by a dealer.

Honestly, I'm not quite sure what you are trying to accomplish. A 4" lift and 37's is a pretty serious commitment. And since you are looking for the least expensive base model possible, I can only assume you are bulding a dedicated off-road vehicle. Why painted fenders and a top? They are just going to get all scratched up.

If it isn't a dedicated trail rig...it might be time to dump the 37's and the 4" lift.
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:23 PM
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^Yes...
Just remember that newer tops have redesigned freedom panels and larger rear windows. Also, you will need a hard-top harness, and will need it flashed by a dealer.

Honestly, I'm not quite sure what you are trying to accomplish. A 4" lift and 37's is a pretty serious commitment. And since you are looking for the least expensive base model possible, I can only assume you are bulding a dedicated off-road vehicle. Why painted fenders and a top? They are just going to get all scratched up.

If it isn't a dedicated trail rig...it might be time to dump the 37's and the 4" lift.
i found a 2013 top, and vehicle is 2013.. it's coming off a local vehicle so i assume he would be able to lend the harness as well (and i understand the flash would be needed to activate the wiper/heated window?)

it will be a dedicated vehicle... I bought an h1 for the task but the mait/issues are a deal breaker..

as far as white.. I have an OCD addiction to white: (a few examples)



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Old 06-06-2013, 12:48 PM   #12
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1. Yes the 6 holes already exist as well as in the sound bar

2. the harness kit includes the wiring and plumbing and stalk switch e.g.

MOPAR 82212859 - MOPAR® Hardtop Wiring Kit for 11-12 Jeep® Wrangler & Wrangler Unlimited JK with OE MOPAR® Hardtop & without Heated Mirrors - Quadratec

click on the installation .pdf

3. 18,000 cash in hand out the door, for a stripped '13 sport can only be tested in person. I see two new ones at 19,000 + out of state. When you ready take a wad of cash and wave it in your local dealers face
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Old 06-06-2013, 01:33 PM
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1. Yes the 6 holes already exist as well as in the sound bar

2. the harness kit includes the wiring and plumbing and stalk switch e.g.

MOPAR 82212859 - MOPAR® Hardtop Wiring Kit for 11-12 Jeep® Wrangler & Wrangler Unlimited JK with OE MOPAR® Hardtop & without Heated Mirrors - Quadratec

click on the installation .pdf

3. 18,000 cash in hand out the door, for a stripped '13 sport can only be tested in person. I see two new ones at 19,000 + out of state. When you ready take a wad of cash and wave it in your local dealers face
thank you for the link, that's more parts that i thought for a simple hard top. but i guess they needed the rear defroster button..

my qualm is A: i want hardtop and A/C.... can get without for 19+TTT (i honestly dont think 18 is possible)...

so it's 19+TTT for base base base model 2013'. (+1k hardtop, 250 kit, 250 misc, and never have A/C)

or if i configure a 2014 it's looking like 25,2+destination for exactly what i want (23k+TTT)

so the question is 19+1,500+no A/c, or 23k.... ($2500 diff for the A.C and a year newer).. big debate


thank you again for the link, i'm not in a rush to buy.. so maybe somewhat worth it to test the money in face technique... once the 14's hit lots.
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:15 PM   #14
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Here's a new white 2013 stick with a/c for 21,500

Cars for Sale: 2013 Jeep Wrangler Sport in Alexandria, VA 22303: Sport Utility Details - 346899427 - AutoTrader.com

the factory ordered hard top is a 900 dollar option, the same hard top after market OEM is 2500. If you buy a used one, it should be no more than 900, even less if its scuffed up. Plus the factory includes the harness obviously, so negotiate the used less the cost of a harness. Point being if the components add up to close to what you are after, you should negotiate a factory complete (white + a/c+ hard top) with a dealer and show / prove it to him. Lot of flexibility if you do your home work and let them know that you know. You should be able to grab this 21,500 easily for 20,000 or even less get your hard top and harness and your out the door for 21,000 and change.
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:33 PM   #15
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I'd order new....get what you want. If you are in Florida, you will want AC. No point in getting a hard top if you won't have AC.
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Old 06-06-2013, 03:04 PM   #16
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You're flashing $350K+ worth of rolling stock (i.e. Random Vehicles)... and bench-modding a base sport that you could buy most of the features you speak of changing, for a couple of grand off the lot. (Sahara), but you might as well get the Rubicon.
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:02 PM
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Here's a new white 2013 stick with a/c for 21,500

Cars for Sale: 2013 Jeep Wrangler Sport in Alexandria, VA 22303: Sport Utility Details - 346899427 - AutoTrader.com

the factory ordered hard top is a 900 dollar option, the same hard top after market OEM is 2500. If you buy a used one, it should be no more than 900, even less if its scuffed up. Plus the factory includes the harness obviously, so negotiate the used less the cost of a harness. Point being if the components add up to close to what you are after, you should negotiate a factory complete (white + a/c+ hard top) with a dealer and show / prove it to him. Lot of flexibility if you do your home work and let them know that you know. You should be able to grab this 21,500 easily for 20,000 or even less get your hard top and harness and your out the door for 21,000 and change.
thanx again for the help, your posts are very helpful...

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I'd order new....get what you want. If you are in Florida, you will want AC. No point in getting a hard top if you won't have AC.
vehicle will be barely driven, and when driven.. it shouldn't be an issue.. but then again for the difference it's always nice to have a "relax" button that turns your car into a fridge.

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You're flashing $350K+ worth of rolling stock (i.e. Random Vehicles)... and bench-modding a base sport that you could buy most of the features you speak of changing, for a couple of grand off the lot. (Sahara), but you might as well get the Rubicon.
A: that's not 350k at all...

B: i am a numbers person, i love numbers and moving em around.. which is the only reason why i have "rolling stock"

C: if i had the "might as well" mentality... i would be in debt and probably looking for a $850 once flipped 89' Jeep.

D: i appreciate the insight, and while it might work for you.. my OCD/AR mind just can't justify the choice.... but I have crunched the numbers and it's technically only $1,805.35 between the 13' w/o AC and me adding hardtop versus ordering a 14' how i want it w/ AC.. (that's actually justifiable imo)

as far as white cars... here is my fav toy.. 838HP , The jeep will be a great toy as well. and a very utilitarian toy.... they are just great vehicles and i can see why people own them without having owned one myself.



and my second fav toy..




*not trying to gloat, we all love cars and i appreciate them fast, slow, offroad or low.. *
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:47 PM   #18
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As usual, my sarcasm doesn't make it from my mind, to the keyboard, to the page...

I was counting the Porsche, the GTR, the Ariel, the Smart car, and the BMW (maybe its not yours, just in the next parking space...) But my quick estimate is $90-100K for the Porsche, $90K for the GTR, $90K for the Ariel, $50K for the Bimmer, and $15K for the Smart. 350K worth of car, give or take a couple of thou. Maybe I'm off, but anyway you slice it, it's quite a valuable collection of cars.

My point was, that you are going to a bit of an extreme to cut costs and get some things done to a base Jeep which could be had from the factory for not much more than it will cost to do yourself... with a lot less hassle and better results.

We all like to save money. However, guys that drive 838 hp P-cars, and Ariel Atoms aren't the typical Jeep guy pinching a few pennies. Therefore, I find it difficult to understand why you would be doing it that way. You have obviously given it some thought.... but you're going way around the horn to save some dough, when you apparently aren't hurting for cash.

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Old 06-08-2013, 01:20 AM
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As usual, my sarcasm doesn't make it from my mind, to the keyboard, to the page...

I was counting the Porsche, the GTR, the Ariel, the Smart car, and the BMW (maybe its not yours, just in the next parking space...) But my quick estimate is $90-100K for the Porsche, $90K for the GTR, $90K for the Ariel, $50K for the Bimmer, and $15K for the Smart. 350K worth of car, give or take a couple of thou. Maybe I'm off, but anyway you slice it, it's quite a valuable collection of cars.

My point was, that you are going to a bit of an extreme to cut costs and get some things done to a base Jeep which could be had from the factory for not much more than it will cost to do yourself... with a lot less hassle and better results.

We all like to save money. However, guys that drive 838 hp P-cars, and Ariel Atoms aren't the typical Jeep guy pinching a few pennies. Therefore, I find it difficult to understand why you would be doing it that way. You have obviously given it some thought.... but you're going way around the horn to save some dough, when you apparently aren't hurting for cash.

i'm just frugal, the bimmer isn't mine tho. (ewww... there are too many 3 series in the world!) i'm also an avid subscriber to the "dollar saved is a dollar earned" theory...

i understand and have come to the conclusion that with a discount a 2014 is the way to go, but sucks it wont be in my hands until september ... which eliminates all the fun.. i'm going tomorrow to negotiate on a vehicle that matches my criteria minus the hardtop, but good news is a hardtop is easy to find used (if willing to travel).

i wish they made the "arctic" edition still.. or i could find one as they came white, 2 door.. painted fenders and hardtop...
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Old 06-08-2013, 02:02 AM   #20
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Maybe you weren't wanting advice on your build but we have a few suggestions that you will want to be aware off. First bds and other lift companies will say 4" lift and 37"s are doable. Well I had to get front driveshaft right away and did the rear shaft just because. I recommend both. A lot of driveline vibes are gone due to the same.

37" tires need to be offset more or tires hit the frame. Adjustable control arms are recommended to recenter axles at full stuff. Fitting 37"s is not as easy as 35"s. having tires out more puts more pressure on axle c's and axle shaft tubes. These are famous for bending. Do gusset and sleeve axle.

Front axle shafts do break, but not that you have to change this right now. Just be aware and budget for it. I like my rcv's and tough too.

Front bumper will need to be changed out. Tires won't clear.

I have 4" but will be going 6" for ride improvement. There is not a lot of up travel for 37"s and 4" lift.

Rubbing with factory flares will happen a lot. Go with your favourite flat fender.

Bottom line 35"s are a lot easier to fit. 37"s are not budget friendly. I would recommend 3" and 35"s for stock shafts and fender flares. 37"s is a big deal.
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Old 06-08-2013, 02:12 AM
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Maybe you weren't wanting advice on your build but we have a few suggestions that you will want to be aware off. First bds and other lift companies will say 4" lift and 37"s are doable. Well I had to get front driveshaft right away and did the rear shaft just because. I recommend both. A lot of driveline vibes are gone due to the same.

37" tires need to be offset more or tires hit the frame. Adjustable control arms are recommended to recenter axles at full stuff. Fitting 37"s is not as easy as 35"s. having tires out more puts more pressure on axle c's and axle shaft tubes. These are famous for bending. Do gusset and sleeve axle.

Front axle shafts do break, but not that you have to change this right now. Just be aware and budget for it. I like my rcv's and tough too.

Front bumper will need to be changed out. Tires won't clear.

I have 4" but will be going 6" for ride improvement. There is not a lot of up travel for 37"s and 4" lift.

Rubbing with factory flares will happen a lot. Go with your favourite flat fender.

Bottom line 35"s are a lot easier to fit. 37"s are not budget friendly. I would recommend 3" and 35"s for stock shafts and fender flares. 37"s is a big deal.
appreciate the input.. what 35's would you reccomend? also.. who for the 3" lift.. i see 2.5" and 4" everywhere.. not very often seeing 3..

you're saying for the 3" you can use stock driveshafts w/o qualm? what gear would u reccomend?
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Old 06-08-2013, 04:25 AM   #22
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appreciate the input.. what 35's would you reccomend? also.. who for the 3" lift.. i see 2.5" and 4" everywhere.. not very often seeing 3..

you're saying for the 3" you can use stock driveshafts w/o qualm? what gear would u reccomend?
Because most lift coils won't sag under weight. The coils are rated stiffer for aftermarket bumpers/winch/tire carrier/etc.
this means a 2.5" lift may actually yield 3.5"-4" if the jeep is light.
Could imagine the height with 4" coils.

Under 3" is generally safe for the drive shafts. Increasing caster with front lower control arms increases pinion angle and puts more angle on the driveshaft. This is another issue with lifting (caster angle)

I would recommend Teraflex because you can choose a 2 door or 4 door coil. This will get you closer to advertised height.

Tires ? That's hard. The Duratrac is very popular. It all depends what you plan to do with the jeep.

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Old 06-09-2013, 06:48 AM   #23
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[QUOTE=rijowysock;3838314]i'm just frugal, the bimmer isn't mine tho. (ewww... there are too many 3 series in the world!) i'm also an avid subscriber to the "dollar saved is a dollar earned" theory...

You say this but own 6 cars. Just order what you want.
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:58 AM   #24
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If you are going to run that much lift and 37's; you had better add at least $10 grand to do it right, or you will be dis-appointed with your rig. As far as any painting, you need to check with your local paint shops to see what they would charge you to do what you want. It ain't going to be cheap, by any means. Good luck.
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appreciate the input.. what 35's would you reccomend? also.. who for the 3" lift.. i see 2.5" and 4" everywhere.. not very often seeing 3..

you're saying for the 3" you can use stock driveshafts w/o qualm? what gear would u reccomend?
Well as others have said 3" or less. I have teraflex, but I recommend different lifts for different lift heights. I like rock crawler for bigger lifts as they address steering correction needed. As do AEV, plus AEV has a bracket to address front control arm angles. Now I have not lived with a lift other than my teraflex and everyone else has experience with 1, 2, or 3 lifts. Hard to get a true opinion sometimes.

Four inch lift almost puts the front driveshaft at its limit. It will not like daily driving for long as under each rotation will cause likely 10x more wear due to being in a constant flex position. Then if boots rip it is not long before grease is flung out and dirt gets in. It will be toast. So nothing $800 can't fix getting new drive shafts.

Tires is really up to you. Not offroading? Much? Then you may want a good all terrain. The Goodyear duratrac is a good place to start. Guess you could search. Might find a thread or 2 that has that same topic.

Honestly you should get a call of duty. Nice jeep. Lift it 2.5" and 35"s with wheel spacers, teraflex rear door support for spare tire, winch might be already on it as a factory option. Very nice jeep. Already have AEV steel bumpers right from factory. You wouldn't do a thing. Has the bells and whistles too like lockers, sway bar disconnect, painted flares, and hardtop. Friend of mine has one he picked up with like 7500 miles on it. It is numbered too! I don't care about that but some people do like that limited edition numbered car prestige.
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08' JKUR auto | traildash | SuperWinchEPi9 | ASFIR bumpers and skids | Xenon Flat Flares | TF 6" lift with monster Panhard bars | 37" GY MTRcK | MT classic II wheels 4.5" bs | Coast drive shafts | RCV front axleshafts | lots of extras
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Old 06-09-2013, 10:17 AM   #25
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I may have missed this but is this thing going off road?
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My Build Thread
https://www.wranglerforum.com/f314/fl...ad-198782.html
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:05 PM   #26
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Welcome to the forum Riley, nice to see you here. Still eatin cheeseburgers by the truckload?

As for your question, the labor to paint the OEM hardtop bodycolor and the fender flares will negate any savings from not getting them from factory. You may want to seriously consider a sahara.

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