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Old 12-02-2019, 01:34 PM
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RC Steering Stabiler

I'm sure somewhere buried in the forum it has been discussed but here goes.


I installed a Rough Country 2.5" lift w RC N3 shocks. I love it. All good with the lift for the last 6 months. I just did the re-torque of all bolts. I decided to match the shocks that I got with the kit and installed the RC N3 steering stabilizer. After Installation I noticed every time I hit a bump the steering wheel started to do the "Death Wobble" only for a split second. I'm going to send back the RC stabilizer and reinstall the stock one which was working with no wobble. Has anyone else had this happen? Just curious...

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Old 12-02-2019, 03:07 PM   #2
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First thing to point out is what Death Wobble is. It is a severe wobble from full left to full right so fast and forceful that you really can't do anything but hopefully come to a stop or near stop to make it go away.
It does not sound like that is what you have.
Most likely you have a 2.5" lift using low end components (Rough Country) and you probably have low caster. That, when combined with the RC Steering Stabilizer, may leads to stability issues. Those stability issues can be very real, but they aren't Death Wobble.
That said, what did the RC lift use for caster correction? And have you had it aligned since the lift? What was the caster if you have?
Have you considered using higher quality parts?

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Old 12-02-2019, 03:11 PM   #3
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You can now officially close all other replies. @GuzziMoto has it all under control!

Poor quality parts = poor quality stability.
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Old 12-02-2019, 03:24 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted289 View Post
I'm sure somewhere buried in the forum it has been discussed but here goes.


I installed a Rough Country 2.5" lift w RC N3 shocks. I love it. All good with the lift for the last 6 months. I just did the re-torque of all bolts. I decided to match the shocks that I got with the kit and installed the RC N3 steering stabilizer. After Installation I noticed every time I hit a bump the steering wheel started to do the "Death Wobble" only for a split second. I'm going to send back the RC stabilizer and reinstall the stock one which was working with no wobble. Has anyone else had this happen? Just curious...
What you're describing sounds more like bump steer. All good points brought up by Guzzi, and in addition I would ask did you install an adjustable front track bar? There could be other issues that the RC kit doesn't address. Re-centering the axle with an adjustable track bar, and caster correction being another important topic. I would also inspect your tie rod ends and ball joints for play. It's been said 100 time here, but if all of your steering components are in good shape, you shouldn't even need a steering stabilizer.
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:31 PM
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Thanks for the replies... 1st, Yes, I did get the front end aligned and all was put in the green. 2nd, No i did not get an adjustable track bar, I didn't know I needed one. The front end was checked out and according to my measurements the axle is centered. I have only 35,000 miles on it and I did check all the components. I actually know the death wobble, Had it it my ford work truck. What I meant is the steering wheels starts to do the left to right like it is going to start into the death wobble but stops before it really gets going. It's just weird that with the lift and stock stabilizer it drove fine...
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Old 12-03-2019, 07:20 AM   #6
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Thanks for the replies... 1st, Yes, I did get the front end aligned and all was put in the green. 2nd, No i did not get an adjustable track bar, I didn't know I needed one. The front end was checked out and according to my measurements the axle is centered. I have only 35,000 miles on it and I did check all the components. I actually know the death wobble, Had it it my ford work truck. What I meant is the steering wheels starts to do the left to right like it is going to start into the death wobble but stops before it really gets going. It's just weird that with the lift and stock stabilizer it drove fine...
All in the "green" is not what we are asking. What is the actual caster number? The "green" range is a range based on stock specs. A Jeep that is no longer stock may require different caster than a stock Jeep. Again, what did the RC kit do for caster correction?
As mentioned, you should be able to safely drive your Jeep without a steering stabilizer at all, and it is possible for a bad steering stabilizer to cause issues. A common test it to remove the SS and see how it drives. If the issue goes away, the SS is the cause.
As mentioned, cheap RC parts are never going to deliver the best results. The stock SS is fine, and unless it is broken there is not much reason to replace it in most cases. If it is a cosmetic thing, just paint the stocker.
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:10 AM
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Here's the readout. I'm going to remove the stabilizer and take it for a ride.
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:31 AM   #8
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Here's the readout. I'm going to remove the stabilizer and take it for a ride.
Attachment 4188551
I see no values for caster. For a lifted Jeep, you want somewhere around 5 degrees. Not sure where you took it for an alignment but anyone with any knowledge of solid front axle vehicles, knows that when you add a suspension lift, caster will change considerably. If you don't have geometry correction brackets or longer/adjustable front lower control arms, your suspension geometry is off. Post a picture of your front end so we can see if your drag link and track bar are parallel. Also, if the shop that installed your lift didn't properly loosen the track bar and control arms, and torque them to spec with the weight of the Jeep on the suspension, you could have things binding.
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:42 AM
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Here are the pics
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:15 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Twisted289 View Post
Here's the readout. I'm going to remove the stabilizer and take it for a ride.
Attachment 4188551
This is a problem... The one specification we need is not reported on this readout, CASTER.

Low caster is a known cause for instability in the steering system.

Which lift is it? The 2.5 Series 2 budget boost is a decent little lift kit but still needs caster correction most of the time.

The standard 2.5 is not a good kit at all... It leaves out so many components that you want to have for your Jeep to be built properly.

https://www.roughcountry.com/jeep-su...ted-4wd-374013



Compare that to say this loaded Rock Krawler X-Factor kit... Sure it's a lot more money, but shortcuts on Jeep suspension are never a good choice. Both are 2.5" lift kits.



At a minimum, you should probably put on a set of TF Sport Front Lower Control Arms. That will bring your caster up and improve the drive significantly. But bump stops, axle correction, sway bar links, etc. are still off.

https://www.allensoffroad.com/Terafl...er-Kit-1252000
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:32 AM
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This is the kit I used. I went with RC N3 shocks so I did not use the shock extensions



https://www.roughcountry.com/jeep-su...ted-4wd-374012
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:45 AM   #12
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This is the kit I used. I went with RC N3 shocks so I did not use the shock extensions



https://www.roughcountry.com/jeep-su...ted-4wd-374012
Ok, that gets you the rear axle correction. And those shock are short enough that you don't need bump stops (not my favorite, but it works). So you are at the point of needing caster correction in my opinion.

For a budget boost, that is actually a nice kit... We don't often recommend RC products here.

Add the TF Sport Front Lower Control Arms and you should be good. I would also do the stabilizer relocation if you haven't already.

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Old 12-03-2019, 10:25 AM
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I did the relocation kit, that's where my issue started. I had no bump steer issues with the factory steering stabilizer. I will definitely do the lower control arm upgrade and look around for a front end shop to do a proper alignment. I know RC lifts are not a favorite on here. I ran an RC Leveling kit on my Commander. Got 50k on my 1st set of tires and 30k on the 2nd when I sold it without issue.
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Old 12-03-2019, 10:32 AM   #14
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I did the relocation kit, that's where my issue started. I had no bump steer issues with the factory steering stabilizer. I will definitely do the lower control arm upgrade and look around for a front end shop to do a proper alignment. I know RC lifts are not a favorite on here. I ran an RC Leveling kit on my Commander. Got 50k on my 1st set of tires and 30k on the 2nd when I sold it without issue.
Good, like I said, that's a decent kit... I have often recommended it. If you can get the caster numbers before you buy the control arms, it would help us nail down the issue. I don't think your issue is the stabilizer. Your setup is not bad at all. But if your caster is 3.5 or under, the arms will be a big improvement.

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Old 12-03-2019, 02:12 PM
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UPDATE: I pulled the RC stabilizer off and test drove the Jeep, same exact amount of bump steer as I had with the RC stabilizer. I re-installed the factory steering stabilizer and no more bump steer at all. I am going to look into a front alignment after I install the lower control arms. I'm wondering if its positioning of the RC stab with their relocation bracket is causing it to not dampen any of the bump steer. I'm also wondering why I need the relocation bracket when it looks like it would work without it. Does anyone happen to know the fully extended length of the factory stabilizer? I really wonder if I put the RC stabilizer back in the factory location what would happen.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:24 PM   #16
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UPDATE: I pulled the RC stabilizer off and test drove the Jeep, same exact amount of bump steer as I had with the RC stabilizer. I re-installed the factory steering stabilizer and no more bump steer at all. I am going to look into a front alignment after I install the lower control arms. I'm wondering if its positioning of the RC stab with their relocation bracket is causing it to not dampen any of the bump steer. I'm also wondering why I need the relocation bracket when it looks like it would work without it. Does anyone happen to know the fully extended length of the factory stabilizer? I really wonder if I put the RC stabilizer back in the factory location what would happen.
Can't say on the RC, but when I installed my Old Man Emu stabilizer in the factory location, the instructions gave you an exact measurement to set the OME to. This way, you make sure you're centered in the amount of travel available evenly. Did the installation instructions give you a dimension to adjust it to? Pretty sure I had to move the factory mounting bracket to compensate for the required length called for in the installation instructions.

Here's the link for the OME mounted in the factory position. I have no way of knowing if the RC is the same length, but it would have to be close I would assume. I would measure the 420mm shown and reinstall the RC in the factory location. (page 3)

https://www.quadratec.com/sites/defa...ons/161691.pdf
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:49 PM   #17
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UPDATE: I pulled the RC stabilizer off and test drove the Jeep, same exact amount of bump steer as I had with the RC stabilizer. I re-installed the factory steering stabilizer and no more bump steer at all. I am going to look into a front alignment after I install the lower control arms. I'm wondering if its positioning of the RC stab with their relocation bracket is causing it to not dampen any of the bump steer. I'm also wondering why I need the relocation bracket when it looks like it would work without it. Does anyone happen to know the fully extended length of the factory stabilizer? I really wonder if I put the RC stabilizer back in the factory location what would happen.
The question to me is, why is the bump steer there to begin with, not why is the RC SS not dampening it.
While a SS can cover up issues like that, the issues should not be there in the first place. Proper geometry, both caster and making sure the track bar and drag link work in unison, should help.
I would use the stock SS, but I would also look into why you have steering / bump issues. The SS is not causing that.
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Old 12-03-2019, 03:17 PM
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Can't say on the RC, but when I installed my Old Man Emu stabilizer in the factory location, the instructions gave you an exact measurement to set the OME to. This way, you make sure you're centered in the amount of travel available evenly. Did the installation instructions give you a dimension to adjust it to? Pretty sure I had to move the factory mounting bracket to compensate for the required length called for in the installation instructions.

Here's the link for the OME mounted in the factory position. I have no way of knowing if the RC is the same length, but it would have to be close I would assume. I would measure the 420mm shown and reinstall the RC in the factory location. (page 3)

https://www.quadratec.com/sites/defa...ons/161691.pdf



The RC Steering Stabilizer mounts exactly the same as the one you used. It has a relocation bracket that raises the aftermarket stabilizer up higher. Just wondered why I couldn't just swap out the dampers...
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Old 12-03-2019, 03:27 PM
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The question to me is, why is the bump steer there to begin with, not why is the RC SS not dampening it.
While a SS can cover up issues like that, the issues should not be there in the first place. Proper geometry, both caster and making sure the track bar and drag link work in unison, should help.
I would use the stock SS, but I would also look into why you have steering / bump issues. The SS is not causing that.

Let me start by saying I'm a little OCD when it comes to my cars and trucks. The bump steer is literally a slight left to right shake of the wheel for a split second when you hit a bump. I do believe as it was stated earlier that my camber is probably not 100% correct. Where the values are in spec, they are probably not right without use of the new lower control arms. I looked at the angle of my front diff to drive shaft and the diff is slightly and i mean slightly pitched up to a straight line with drive shaft. After looking at my neighbors Jeep his seems to have a slight angle to the shaft. Not sure of degrees, maybe 1-2. That would definitely change my camber and could be the difference.
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Old 12-03-2019, 03:35 PM   #20
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@Twisted289

You can certainly put the stock stabilizer in the relocation brackets. We move them above the tie rod to reduce damage to the stabilizer because it hangs low. The relocation has no impact on the effectiveness of the stabilizer.

Loosen the bracket on the tie rod and have someone turn your steering wheel all the way to the right. When it's against the steering stops, slide the tie rod bracket with the stabilizer on it to where its about 1/4"- 3/8" from fully compressed. Then tighten the clamp on the tie rod.

They actually talk about it in the video I posted above.

I'm struggling to accept that the damping in the RC stabilizer is that much less than the stock stabilizer. But it's what you are experiencing, so be it.
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Old 12-03-2019, 03:38 PM   #21
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The RC Steering Stabilizer mounts exactly the same as the one you used. It has a relocation bracket that raises the aftermarket stabilizer up higher. Just wondered why I couldn't just swap out the dampers...
The instructions I linked to contains instructions for using the relocating bracket (raises it up from the factory installed position) AND for simply replacing your factory SS with, in this case, the OME. That's why i pointed you to page 3 of the instructions. If I were you, I would re-install the RC unit, in the original factory location, and measure the distance to 420mm. And then, yes, get a good alignment shop to check what your caster is now, and then we can recommend either a longer fixed LCA, or you may opt for an adjustable set. As Guzzi has stated, and I agree with, bump steer is not caused by a SS. In my case, I always had a slight, very slight amount of bump steer after installing the Rancho 2" Sport lift. In my case, an aftermarket adjustable track bar completely eliminated it. That's why we keep saying something else besides the SS (OEM or RC) is amiss here.
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Old 12-03-2019, 03:46 PM
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@Twisted289

You can certainly put the stock stabilizer in the relocation brackets. We move them above the tie rod to reduce damage to the stabilizer because it hangs low. The relocation has no impact on the effectiveness of the stabilizer.

Loosen the bracket on the tie rod and have someone turn your steering wheel all the way to the right. When it's against the steering stops, slide the tie rod bracket with the stabilizer on it to where its about 1/4"- 3/8" from fully compressed. Then tighten the clamp on the tie rod.

They actually talk about it in the video I posted above.

I'm struggling to accept that the damping in the RC stabilizer is that much less than the stock stabilizer. But it's what you are experiencing, so be it.

I am looking at putting the RC Stabilizer in the factory location. Again, i am not quite sure other than the brand new RC stab being bad, why i would experience bump steer with it and not the factory one. Is it possible the new stabilizer is bad? It certainly doesn't feel like it is.
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Old 12-03-2019, 03:52 PM   #23
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Let me start by saying I'm a little OCD when it comes to my cars and trucks. The bump steer is literally a slight left to right shake of the wheel for a split second when you hit a bump. I do believe as it was stated earlier that my camber is probably not 100% correct. Where the values are in spec, they are probably not right without use of the new lower control arms. I looked at the angle of my front diff to drive shaft and the diff is slightly and i mean slightly pitched up to a straight line with drive shaft. After looking at my neighbors Jeep his seems to have a slight angle to the shaft. Not sure of degrees, maybe 1-2. That would definitely change my camber and could be the difference.
One or two degrees difference in pinion angle is typically one or two degrees difference in caster. And that can make a big difference.
As to the SS difference, you have both so it should be easy to compare for any differences. I would think they are basically the same.
Having the SS at an angle would reduce its dampening, but not by a lot. It may be a lighter damper plus the angle change.
On the one side, you could simply run a better SS. On the other side, you should not need a SS to cover up issues in how it drives. I do get that some prefer the heavier weighted feel that a stronger SS can deliver. But using a SS to cover up poor set up is not something I would do.
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Old 12-03-2019, 04:04 PM   #24
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I am looking at putting the RC Stabilizer in the factory location. Again, i am not quite sure other than the brand new RC stab being bad, why i would experience bump steer with it and not the factory one. Is it possible the new stabilizer is bad? It certainly doesn't feel like it is.
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One or two degrees difference in pinion angle is typically one or two degrees difference in caster. And that can make a big difference.
As to the SS difference, you have both so it should be easy to compare for any differences. I would think they are basically the same.
Having the SS at an angle would reduce its dampening, but not by a lot. It may be a lighter damper plus the angle change.
On the one side, you could simply run a better SS. On the other side, you should not need a SS to cover up issues in how it drives. I do get that some prefer the heavier weighted feel that a stronger SS can deliver. But using a SS to cover up poor set up is not something I would do.
Most relocation setups put the stabilizer more in line with the axle and reduce angle. From a geometry perspective, it simply can't be the relocation... But it's hard to say exactly what he is feeling.
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Old 12-04-2019, 12:10 AM   #25
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I put this very Rough Country kit on my 17 Jeep with 15,000 miles on it. The steering was "twitchy", feeling as if would "wander" within it's lane when I hit bumps. Geo correction in the front was heavily recommended by the folks here and I chose front Teraflex sport arms. They were easy to install and instantly fixed the problems I was having. You may have underlying additional items, but the arms with this kit did wonders. I did not change out the steering stabilizer as many have pointed out, it masks problems.
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Old 12-04-2019, 06:59 AM
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Are these the lower control arms I'm looking for, or should they be adjustable?


https://www.amazon.com/TeraFlex-1252...5460506&sr=8-7
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:08 AM   #27
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Are these the lower control arms I'm looking for, or should they be adjustable?


https://www.amazon.com/TeraFlex-1252...5460506&sr=8-7
Those are a good option for fixed length control arms. You can go with adjustable, but for many people longer fixed length front lower arms are easier and often are all you need.
It would be good to get the caster numbers first, so you can see where you are. That would make it easier to know where you need to go. Different longer fixed length arms from different vendors are slightly different lengths. Knowing how far you are from where you need to be would help determine which arms from which vendor you would best off with.
You can go with adjustable arms, but they are more involved. I would suggest a set of fixed length longer arms. But getting the caster specs of where you are first would be smart.
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:57 AM
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Those are a good option for fixed length control arms. You can go with adjustable, but for many people longer fixed length front lower arms are easier and often are all you need.
It would be good to get the caster numbers first, so you can see where you are. That would make it easier to know where you need to go. Different longer fixed length arms from different vendors are slightly different lengths. Knowing how far you are from where you need to be would help determine which arms from which vendor you would best off with.
You can go with adjustable arms, but they are more involved. I would suggest a set of fixed length longer arms. But getting the caster specs of where you are first would be smart.

Here's my caster numbers..



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Old 12-04-2019, 08:10 AM   #29
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Here's my caster numbers..



That has camber and toe, but not caster. Caster would be in the greyed out field in the middle on each side.
Ideal caster is usually around 5 degrees, but different Jeeps, different people, and what not, can mean a little more or a little less is desired.
It is weird that caster is not in that print out. But it is not.
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Old 12-04-2019, 08:22 AM   #30
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Are these the lower control arms I'm looking for, or should they be adjustable?


https://www.amazon.com/TeraFlex-1252...5460506&sr=8-7
Those are the go-to for simplicity and function. It's a plug and play solution.

If you want to go in with a little more complexity which would be more "expandable" in the future, the adjustable arms would be a great choice. The install and setup does require the ability to properly tighten the jam nut.

I run the Tier 3 Core4x4 arms and can't imagine a better choice...

https://www.allensoffroad.com/suspen...rol-Arm-Set-T3

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