Removing hardtop causes lower audio output - debunked - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK General Discussion Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 09-03-2012, 03:23 AM
Thread Starter
  #1
Jeeper
 
flyinion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,994
Removing hardtop causes lower audio output - debunked

Now, before I get any farther I'm going to say that I test this on a 2012 built in January of this year, so it's of course quite possible previous years and/or earlier builds work differently. So, I had heard in a few of the audio threads that disconnecting the hard top wiring harness causes a drop in audio output basically because of something along the lines of Jeep wants to reduce noise pollution. Now, I'll say it's pretty obvious that when you actually remove the top you change the acoustics so you're definitely going to lose volume inside the Jeep.

Today was the day I slapped the hardtop back on because I had some friends over and it seemed like a good time to get it off the dolly sitting on the side of the house. I figured this was the perfect opportunity to scientifically test and see if there is really a drop in output. So, top on, freedom panels on, doors shut, windows up, and engine off I set out to find out. I used my trusty dB meter and first played a song at volume 18 for about a minute. The average high reading was 96-102dB. Then I shut everything off, jumped out and ran around back and plugged in the harness. Closed everything back up and check again. Same song, same time chunk, same volume level, and SAME dB reading.

So, if you have a 2012 and are believing you have lower audio with the hardtop removed, it's more than likely just the change in acoustics and not an actual output reduction.

__________________
2012 JKU Sport S in BFG:
Max Tow | LSD | M/T | Connectivity | Infinity | Hard Top | Ace rails | MC 2.5" lift + front TB & CA's | JCR Crusader rear bumper + Shield tire carrier | Quadratec 9500is Stealth Edition | JCR Transmission Crossmember | Quadratec Hardrock 17x8.5 | Nitto Ridge Grappler 285/75r17 | Rubi rails | JCR C gussets & LCA skids
flyinion is offline   Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 04:30 AM   #2
Jeeper
 
lolpetewtf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MA/VA/AZ
Posts: 2,319
Well umm......there was nothing scientific about your testing. There is no such thing as a 'db" meter. It is called a sound level meter. What statistics were you using? Do you mean the average Leq? I am breaking your balls a bit, as I work in acoustics =)

__________________
2012 Cosmos Blue JK
Galaxy DX-99v2/Sirio 5000

S Package/Auto/Dual Top
Custom Stereo/20% Tint
Grabbers on Vision Wheels
lolpetewtf is offline   Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 06:00 AM   #3
The Bad Guy

WF Supporting Member
 
daggo66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NJ exile living in Baltimore
Posts: 23,119
Thank you for finally putting this to rest.
__________________
Tom

"I've got two things in this world, my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
daggo66 is offline   Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-03-2012, 06:13 AM   #4
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 15
That was scientific enough for me... Plug in or out and no difference... and db is how the volume is displayed on my home theatre. I can relate to that. Respect to your profession but things like Leq mean nothing to me. People ask me how a helicopter flies, I dont regurgitate a years worth of flight school I simply tell them the rotor blades spin around providing lift and its controlled by tilting the whole thing in the direction you want to go. Questions on the mechanics, physics, etc. of how rarely go beyond that and by no means does that imply a lack of intelligence, just that I am highly specialized in my field and dont expect anyone outside that field to have anywhere near the depth of knowledge I do.
=)
Thanks for the info op, i will be finding out if this works on my ordered '13 in a few weeks.
The chief characteristic which distinguishes a scientific method of inquiry from other methods of acquiring knowledge is that scientists seek to let reality speak for itself, supporting a theory when a theory's predictions are confirmed and challenging a theory when its predictions prove false.
arx237 is offline   Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 06:20 AM   #5
Jeeper
 
lolpetewtf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MA/VA/AZ
Posts: 2,319
Did I question intelligence? No. But your drawn out response was interesting. Kinda.
__________________
2012 Cosmos Blue JK
Galaxy DX-99v2/Sirio 5000

S Package/Auto/Dual Top
Custom Stereo/20% Tint
Grabbers on Vision Wheels
lolpetewtf is offline   Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 06:44 AM   #6
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolpetewtf View Post
Well umm......there was nothing scientific about your testing. There is no such thing as a 'db" meter. It is called a sound level meter. What statistics were you using? Do you mean the average Leq? I am breaking your balls a bit, as I work in acoustics =)

last time i checked a sound level meter is calibrated in db and also called a db meter.

http://www.decibel-meter.com/
mathjak is offline   Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 06:59 AM   #7
Jeeper
 
lolpetewtf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MA/VA/AZ
Posts: 2,319
They are always called sound level meters from people in my field. dB meter is more of a laymans term. There are a few types. The one you linked is basically a toy, it is junk. It would never hold water in a court room or standards organization. It does not even read above 8000hz so its readings could be wayyyyyy off.

Check out a B&K 2250, Rion NL-31 or Larson-Davis 831. Those are type 0/1...very cool =)
__________________
2012 Cosmos Blue JK
Galaxy DX-99v2/Sirio 5000

S Package/Auto/Dual Top
Custom Stereo/20% Tint
Grabbers on Vision Wheels
lolpetewtf is offline   Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 07:03 AM   #8
Jeeper
 
BadOleRoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lynchburg VA
Posts: 898
I have a db meter on my iPhone. If Steve Jobs said it's a DB Meter it must be true!
__________________
2013 JKU True Blue, 4" Zone Lift, 35x12.5x17 Nitto Trail Grapplers, ION 171 Black and Machined Wheels
BadOleRoss is offline   Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 07:33 AM   #9
Jeeper
 
50 Something's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 876


50 Something
__________________
"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

John 1:1
50 Something is offline   Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 07:38 AM   #10
Jeeper
 
lolpetewtf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MA/VA/AZ
Posts: 2,319
Lol 50 I don't get it. The whole signing your posts thing...whats up with that
__________________
2012 Cosmos Blue JK
Galaxy DX-99v2/Sirio 5000

S Package/Auto/Dual Top
Custom Stereo/20% Tint
Grabbers on Vision Wheels
lolpetewtf is offline   Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 07:43 AM   #11
Jeeper
 
50 Something's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 876
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolpetewtf View Post
Lol 50 I don't get it. The whole signing your posts thing...whats up with that
Not sure I guess I just like to type and I have done so many repair quotes in my life it just feels right?

Thank you for this opportunity,

50 Something... ROTFLMAO
__________________
"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

John 1:1
50 Something is offline   Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 07:53 AM   #12
Jeeper
 
lolpetewtf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MA/VA/AZ
Posts: 2,319
__________________
2012 Cosmos Blue JK
Galaxy DX-99v2/Sirio 5000

S Package/Auto/Dual Top
Custom Stereo/20% Tint
Grabbers on Vision Wheels
lolpetewtf is offline   Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 02:54 PM   #13
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Los Angeles, USA
Posts: 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadOleRoss View Post
I have a db meter on my iPhone. If Steve Jobs said it's a DB Meter it must be true!
Most of the apps on iPhone were made by 9 years old kid or drunk dudes locking in their rooms all the time, they were not approved by Steve Jobs

but I think if something measures in dB, it still can be called dB meter regardless it's inaccurate, junk or toy.
And I think the test is reasonably good enough to tell there is proabably no sound level difference.
mcdull is offline   Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 04:13 PM
Thread Starter
  #14
Jeeper
 
flyinion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,994
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolpetewtf View Post
Well umm......there was nothing scientific about your testing. There is no such thing as a 'db" meter. It is called a sound level meter. What statistics were you using? Do you mean the average Leq? I am breaking your balls a bit, as I work in acoustics =)
Ok, well it was as scientific as the home user can get. I used a Radio Shack 33-2050 analog sound meter (yes I'm not a pro did not realize "sound level meter" was the official name) set to weighting C and response slow. These are the same settings I've used for years as per home theater forums for calibrating/balancing speaker levels on my home theater systems and I figured it was a good choice here.

I think the "scientific" part was that I tested both scenarios using the same parameters instead of just the "ear dyno". I used the same volume level (did not touch the volume knob), and the exact same time clip of source material taking note of the max dB level at the appropriate points in the song. I suppose I could be more accurate by recording a pink noise clip and taking it out there but it was late and I figured my test was good enough.
__________________
2012 JKU Sport S in BFG:
Max Tow | LSD | M/T | Connectivity | Infinity | Hard Top | Ace rails | MC 2.5" lift + front TB & CA's | JCR Crusader rear bumper + Shield tire carrier | Quadratec 9500is Stealth Edition | JCR Transmission Crossmember | Quadratec Hardrock 17x8.5 | Nitto Ridge Grappler 285/75r17 | Rubi rails | JCR C gussets & LCA skids
flyinion is offline   Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 04:37 PM   #15
Jeeper
 
lolpetewtf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MA/VA/AZ
Posts: 2,319
Should have been A-weighted =)

But I see your point, of course.
__________________
2012 Cosmos Blue JK
Galaxy DX-99v2/Sirio 5000

S Package/Auto/Dual Top
Custom Stereo/20% Tint
Grabbers on Vision Wheels
lolpetewtf is offline   Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 05:01 PM
Thread Starter
  #16
Jeeper
 
flyinion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,994
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolpetewtf View Post
Should have been A-weighted =)

But I see your point, of course.
Yeah I don't know much about the weightings. I just used the settings recommended for use with the home theater calibration DVD's (Avia, Video Essentials, if you're familiar at all) and they use C weighting & slow response. I might try A weighted to see if anything changes, but it seems to me while the actual dB reading might change the two scenarios would probably still read the same in relation to each other.
__________________
2012 JKU Sport S in BFG:
Max Tow | LSD | M/T | Connectivity | Infinity | Hard Top | Ace rails | MC 2.5" lift + front TB & CA's | JCR Crusader rear bumper + Shield tire carrier | Quadratec 9500is Stealth Edition | JCR Transmission Crossmember | Quadratec Hardrock 17x8.5 | Nitto Ridge Grappler 285/75r17 | Rubi rails | JCR C gussets & LCA skids
flyinion is offline   Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 05:22 PM   #17
Jeeper
 
lolpetewtf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MA/VA/AZ
Posts: 2,319
I suppose it would mainly be used for low frequency statistics. I never work with home audio, just environmental/TL stuff.
__________________
2012 Cosmos Blue JK
Galaxy DX-99v2/Sirio 5000

S Package/Auto/Dual Top
Custom Stereo/20% Tint
Grabbers on Vision Wheels
lolpetewtf is offline   Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 06:22 PM   #18
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 137
That was a good post till WTF Pete jumped in
Fireslayer is offline   Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 06:40 PM   #19
Jeeper
 
lolpetewtf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MA/VA/AZ
Posts: 2,319
Lol I agree.

__________________
2012 Cosmos Blue JK
Galaxy DX-99v2/Sirio 5000

S Package/Auto/Dual Top
Custom Stereo/20% Tint
Grabbers on Vision Wheels
lolpetewtf is offline   Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off






All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, Gladiator, Mopar and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to FCA US LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with FCA US LLC.