Set Jeep free so the Wrangler may live? - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK General Discussion Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 03-09-2016, 10:47 AM
Thread Starter
  #1
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: McLean, VA
Posts: 53
Set Jeep free so the Wrangler may live?

Fiat is almost seven billion dollars in debt and basically trading on Jeep and Ram to save the rest of their lineup. Sure, they're selling a metric shit-ton of Jeeps, but the Wrangler is now the fourth-best selling Jeep behind the Cherokee lines and the Renegade. While the Wrangler is still the most recognized Jeep, I have no faith that Fiat will protect its iconic status. I'm concerned that they're going to cash out the brand, especially in the face of emissions requirements they don't have the resources to meet and as little European toys make up more of their sales numbers.

If you're concerned about Fiat's ownership of Jeep, please consider signing this petition and sharing it.

NerfHerder is offline   Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 10:52 AM   #2
Supporting Member

5-Year WF Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,370
This is worthless. Jeep and Ram are what keep the company up and they'll never let that go. They're not going to listen to a stupid petition.


Wrangler is the halo vehicle for Jeep, they're not going to mess with it. I don't think it's ever been the sales leader so your concern is moot.

__________________
2015 Anvil JKR
Just a bumper and some lights so far.
Mike-D is offline   Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 10:58 AM   #3
Jeeper
 
Timbuktom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: CT- Knee deep in Long Island Sound
Posts: 67
I very rarely see a Renegade in my area. Cherokees are fairly common lately. But I can hardly drive down the street without waving at three other Wranglers in a block. I still believe that Jeep as a brand and the Wrangler as a model are the cash cow for Fiat.
Timbuktom is offline   Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-09-2016, 11:00 AM   #4
Jeeper
 
WaltA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: 3rd Planet, Sol system
Posts: 10,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike-D View Post
This is worthless. Jeep and Ram are what keep the company up and they'll never let that go. They're not going to listen to a stupid petition.
+1
__________________
Current Jeep:
2014 Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon X
Previous Jeeps:
1999 Cherokee Limited (w/ Up Country)
1987 Wrangler Laredo
[All custom ordered]
WaltA is offline   Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 11:02 AM   #5
Supporting Member

5-Year WF Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuktom View Post
I very rarely see a Renegade in my area. Cherokees are fairly common lately. But I can hardly drive down the street without waving at three other Wranglers in a block. I still believe that Jeep as a brand and the Wrangler as a model are the cash cow for Fiat.

Renegade and Cherokee sell well because they sell well internationally. Wrangler does not sell well internationally so worrying about numbers is nuts.


Thinking Jeep could survive on its own us a joke. It's too intertwined with Chrysler. Jeep flying solo would be gone in a year. Fiat may be losing cash but Jeep us a better brand than it ever has been thanks to them.
__________________
2015 Anvil JKR
Just a bumper and some lights so far.
Mike-D is offline   Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 11:46 AM   #6
Moderator

5-Year WF Supporting Member
WF Lifetime Member
::WF Moderator::
 
aldo90731's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 8,956
Jeep has always existed on the brink, first under Willy-Overland, then under Kaiser, then under AMC, then Chrysler, DaimlerChrysler, Cerberus, now under FCA.

It seems Jeep not only survives, but gets stronger with time.
__________________

2018 JLU Sahara
Eight prior JKs and JKUs
aldo90731 is offline   Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 12:13 PM   #7
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Reno , NV.
Posts: 1,191
Not that I care, I'll never buy a new one again anyway but, This is the first time a non American co. has owned Jeep. Who knows where it'll go.
willysdave is offline   Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 12:18 PM   #8
Supporting Member

5-Year WF Supporting Member
 
RubiconSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 16,738
The "Wrangler" really is an American anomaly. Can't tell you the number of people I have heard over the years from other parts of the world ask, "What is it with you Americans and your Jeeps?" They ask about other stuff like Guns, Fast Food and Shyness about sex/nudity but...... They Do Not get the "Jeep thing"

Look at how many folks out of this Country are on the Wrangler Forum, Not many.
__________________
"Sticking Feathers up Your Butt does Not make You a Chicken"
RubiconSS is offline   Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 12:31 PM   #9
Supporting Member

5-Year WF Supporting Member
 
SoCalRubicon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: In a handbasket...
Posts: 2,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by NerfHerder View Post

...but the Wrangler is now the fourth-best selling Jeep behind the Cherokee lines and the Renegade.
Nope, not here in the US.


2015 sales stats:

Cherokee: 220,260
Wrangler: 202,702
Grand Cherokee: 195,958
Patriot: 118,464
Compass 66,698
Renegade 60,946


2016 year to date:

Cherokee: 30,364
Grand Cherokee: 28,544
Wrangler: 24,031
Patriot: 18,910
Renegade 13,119
Compass 12,292


sales stats:

Jeep Grand Cherokee Sales Figures
Jeep Wrangler Sales Figures
Jeep Cherokee Sales Figures
Jeep Patriot Sales Figures
Jeep Compass Sales Figures
Jeep Renegade Sales Figures




So far this year there have been nearly 2 Wranglers sold for every 1 Renegade.
__________________
Not all who wander are lost...
SoCalRubicon is offline   Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 12:35 PM   #10
Supporting Member

5-Year WF Supporting Member
 
Monsoon Chopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 352
The Wrangler may not be the leader in Sales Volume, but I bet it's the leader in Profit Margin for the Jeep lineup. FCA will not let go of that. And I believe on reason the Cherokee and Renegade are sales leaders, check out the Rental Fleets. If there's a Jeep product there, it's the Cherokee or Renegade. I've heard many times, that the Wrangler is what keeps the lights on for Jeep.
Monsoon Chopper is offline   Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 12:39 PM   #11
Supporting Member

5-Year WF Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by willysdave View Post
Not that I care, I'll never buy a new one again anyway but, This is the first time a non American co. has owned Jeep. Who knows where it'll go.

Daimler was not an American company. At the end of its life, AMC was owned by Renault I think. We have them to thank for the XJ. Foreign ownership is nothing new.
__________________
2015 Anvil JKR
Just a bumper and some lights so far.
Mike-D is offline   Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 12:52 PM   #12
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsoon Chopper View Post
The Wrangler may not be the leader in Sales Volume, but I bet it's the leader in Profit Margin for the Jeep lineup.
Yes, these things are so cheaply made. Very basic construction with minimal electronic stuff.... But yet my jeep had a $46K plus msrp. I bet they also make good money on aftermarket stuff, people buying mopar lift kits and other stuff from the factory.

Never really understood people's concern with jeep and mostly the wranglers future. Huge profit margin, very good sales, cult following and the list goes on.

Many feel the JK/JKU is the last true wrangler however ask the previous gen wrangler owner and they probably feel their jeep is the last true jeep due to the 4.0L, and the owner of the generation before that probably said their jeep is the best and last.
NC25T is offline   Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 02:21 PM   #13
Jeeper
 
SomeWhatLost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: earth
Posts: 938
Quote:
Originally Posted by NC25T View Post
Many feel the JK/JKU is the last true wrangler however ask the previous gen wrangler owner and they probably feel their jeep is the last true jeep due to the 4.0L
that's just silly everyone one knows that the M's/Cj's were the last true Jeeps...
but there is something to be said for newer jeeps with their fancy working heaters/comfy seats/tops that seal(somewhat) & go on & off easy/brakes that stop the vehicle/etc....
__________________
NOTE: As one wise professional something once stated, I am ignorant & childish, with a mindset comparable to 9/11 troofers and wackjob conspiracy theorists. so don't take anything I say as advice...
SomeWhatLost is offline   Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 02:24 PM   #14
Jeeper
 
CLOTAGAMES's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: illinois
Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by NerfHerder View Post
Fiat is almost seven billion dollars in debt and basically trading on Jeep and Ram to save the rest of their lineup. Sure, they're selling a metric shit-ton of Jeeps, but the Wrangler is now the fourth-best selling Jeep behind the Cherokee lines and the Renegade. While the Wrangler is still the most recognized Jeep, I have no faith that Fiat will protect its iconic status. I'm concerned that they're going to cash out the brand, especially in the face of emissions requirements they don't have the resources to meet and as little European toys make up more of their sales numbers.

If you're concerned about Fiat's ownership of Jeep, please consider signing this petition and sharing it.
Why would you spin off your cash cow? Petition is a joke!
CLOTAGAMES is offline   Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 10:01 AM
Thread Starter
  #15
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: McLean, VA
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuktom View Post
I very rarely see a Renegade in my area. Cherokees are fairly common lately. But I can hardly drive down the street without waving at three other Wranglers in a block. I still believe that Jeep as a brand and the Wrangler as a model are the cash cow for Fiat.
Oh, they're definitely the cash cow, and that's my problem. That seems to be all they are. My first Jeep was a CJ-7 Renegade. The fact that they took that designation and made it into that four-wheeled shit show is when I really started to care.

And to the point that a petition won't do much, I get that it's shouting into the wind at this point, but if enough of us start shouting, eventually they'll hear us.
NerfHerder is offline   Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 10:10 AM
Thread Starter
  #16
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: McLean, VA
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalRubicon View Post
Nope, not here in the US.


2015 sales stats:

Cherokee: 220,260
Wrangler: 202,702
Grand Cherokee: 195,958
Patriot: 118,464
Compass 66,698
Renegade 60,946


2016 year to date:

Cherokee: 30,364
Grand Cherokee: 28,544
Wrangler: 24,031
Patriot: 18,910
Renegade 13,119
Compass 12,292

So far this year there have been nearly 2 Wranglers sold for every 1 Renegade.
Interesting that those aren't the numbers that Fiat is quoting. From their 1/27/2016 Business plan update (page 12), they show:
  • Wranglers - 151k
  • Cherokee and GC - 438k (200k+ each)
  • Renegade - 158k (and the biggest region for the Renegade is NAFTA)
  • Patriot and Compass - 169k combined.

So regardless of what those links say, FCA doesn't agree. It's still number four.
NerfHerder is offline   Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 11:15 AM   #17
The Bad Guy

WF Supporting Member
 
daggo66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NJ exile living in Baltimore
Posts: 23,119
Quote:
Originally Posted by willysdave View Post
Not that I care, I'll never buy a new one again anyway but, This is the first time a non American co. has owned Jeep. Who knows where it'll go.
Since when was Daimler or Renault an American company?
__________________
Tom

"I've got two things in this world, my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
daggo66 is offline   Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 11:22 AM   #18
Supporting Member

5-Year WF Supporting Member
 
SoCalRubicon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: In a handbasket...
Posts: 2,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by "NerfHerder View Post


So regardless of what those links say, FCA doesn't agree. It's still number four.
Interesting.

The site I quoted gets the sales reports from all the manufacturers directly.
__________________
Not all who wander are lost...
SoCalRubicon is offline   Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 12:42 PM   #19
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Reno , NV.
Posts: 1,191
Wasn't it Damlier/Chysler meaning it was jointly owned ? When AMC went belly up, how long did Renault own Jeep, the only info. I could find is that they invested in Chrysler, not owned it ?
willysdave is offline   Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 01:04 PM   #20
Supporting Member

5-Year WF Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by willysdave View Post
Wasn't it Damlier/Chysler meaning it was jointly owned ? When AMC went belly up, how long did Renault own Jeep, the only info. I could find is that they invested in Chrysler, not owned it ?

Nope. All foreign ownership. And it has never mattered.

Renault had a controlling interest in AMC, who owned Jeep. Chrysler bought Jeep from them and Chrysler has bounced from sugar daddy to sugar daddy for years now.



And complaining the Renegade name is vying ruined on the new model is stupid. Almost no one knows or cares about a name of a trim level decades ago. The minority can whine about stupid shit all they want but the money of the majority speaks louder.
__________________
2015 Anvil JKR
Just a bumper and some lights so far.
Mike-D is offline   Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 01:11 PM   #21
Jeeper
 
WaltA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: 3rd Planet, Sol system
Posts: 10,115
My first Wrangler was all American (as in American Motors).

The steering column was GM. The key blanks were GM, rebranded. Even the headlight switch was straight out of a Camaro/Firebird of the era.
__________________
Current Jeep:
2014 Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon X
Previous Jeeps:
1999 Cherokee Limited (w/ Up Country)
1987 Wrangler Laredo
[All custom ordered]
WaltA is offline   Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 01:16 PM   #22
EUG
Jeeper
 
EUG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalRubicon View Post
Nope, not here in the US.


2015 sales stats:

Cherokee: 220,260
Wrangler: 202,702
Grand Cherokee: 195,958
Patriot: 118,464
Compass 66,698
Renegade 60,946


2016 year to date:

Cherokee: 30,364
Grand Cherokee: 28,544
Wrangler: 24,031
Patriot: 18,910
Renegade 13,119
Compass 12,292


sales stats:

Jeep Grand Cherokee Sales Figures
Jeep Wrangler Sales Figures
Jeep Cherokee Sales Figures
Jeep Patriot Sales Figures
Jeep Compass Sales Figures
Jeep Renegade Sales Figures




So far this year there have been nearly 2 Wranglers sold for every 1 Renegade.
Interesting...I thought Grand Cherokee sales were much higher than everything else. Don't seem to see many Cherokees on the road.
EUG is offline   Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 01:18 PM   #23
For The Horde!

5-Year WF Supporting Member
 
dHorde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 77
Another Thread trying to scare people into thinking FCA will give up Jeep.

FYI Seven Billion in Debt isn't that much for a company that size and its not even real! Their Q3 10Q shows almost 50 Billion in Liabilities and 50 Billion is Assets with 3 Billion in net income. They are fine.
__________________
2016 Black JKUS
dHorde is offline   Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 04:21 PM   #24
Jeeper
 
Strokerswild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 1,663
I'm not as optimistic as some are here about FCA's general future.....

Debt is just one problem. Inability to meet emissions another, compounded by the fact that they have nothing in the way of a platform involving electric/hybrid tech (which they promised to do when gifted the whole mess for a song by our government, by the way). I read recently somewhere that the Dart was to be killed, and possibly the 200 as well (or something to that end), so there go the CAFE numbers. Hmmm.

Why do you think Marchionne has been so adamant about finding a partner? Because there's no money left after propping up Fiat (the franchises are failing), dreaming about Alfa Romeo becoming a real player, and other assorted pipe dreams suckling at the teat.

Jeep and Ram are the only things currently keeping FCA afloat. But another good gas crunch and things will get really interesting for them, and fast. They won't give up Jeep in the normal sense, but if they go belly up again I could see FCA split up, especially if the government is involved again.
__________________
Gone but not forgotten:
'98 TJ SE - '99 TJ Sahara - '12 JK Arctic - '13 JK Sahara

'19 Ford F-150 RCSB 4X4
Strokerswild is offline   Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 04:28 PM   #25
Jeeper
 
Strokerswild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 1,663
Oh, and I forgot to mention, FCA has also been writing a large percentage of subprime loans (feel free to Google), which ain't good, folks.

Remember 2008? I do.
__________________
Gone but not forgotten:
'98 TJ SE - '99 TJ Sahara - '12 JK Arctic - '13 JK Sahara

'19 Ford F-150 RCSB 4X4
Strokerswild is offline   Quote
Old 03-30-2016, 01:50 PM
Thread Starter
  #26
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: McLean, VA
Posts: 53
So that petition is up to 1,100 people now.

It's still small compared to the number of Jeep owners out there, but it seems like there is some real concern about Jeep under Fiat.
NerfHerder is offline   Quote
Old 03-30-2016, 02:50 PM   #27
Supporting Member

5-Year WF Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,370
These petitions are pointless and are just for people with nothing better to do. The design of the JL was started years ago, probably not long after the JK was released. This petition won't do anything.

If you want Jeep to make only traditional stuff then you might as well wish them dead.
__________________
2015 Anvil JKR
Just a bumper and some lights so far.
Mike-D is offline   Quote
Old 03-30-2016, 03:14 PM   #28
Jeeper
 
CarnalSin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SouthWest
Posts: 88
The big three are still suffering, before long there will be another line of credit as per the previous $25 billion line of credit bailout from the government. That will trigger some popular, yet inexpensive lines (neon, stratus) to be dropped but definitely not their flagship wrangler or Ram.

Just my .02
__________________
2016 Jeep Wrangler 75th Anniversary Edition


Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor. If all this fails you, just buy a Jeep.
CarnalSin is offline   Quote
Old 03-30-2016, 03:37 PM   #29
Jeeper
 
Wild Weasel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,867
Just gonna copy and paste my response to another identical thread here:
https://www.wranglerforum.com/f19/spi...r-1649649.html

Interesting. I don't think you've thought this through. Firstly, the Renegade has been well-received and seems to be a reasonably capable little off-roader in the right trim. So there's that. Things were far worse a few years back when Chrysler was rebadging Caliber's as Jeeps. Those were absolute garbage.

Jeep will never die. Even if FCA went completely belly-up, someone would pick Jeep out of the rubble of the bankruptcy proceedings and keep on building Wranglers. Jeep is the main reason Fiat bought into the failed Chrysler mess. Jeep has been the main reason anyone has picked up the pieces of whoever held Jeep at the time for half a century and this will continue in the future.

Jeep on it's own though couldn't survive. How could they possibly continue to build Wranglers if they didn't have things like Fiat 500's out there to offset the emissions and get their averages down? On it's own, they'd be done for. You can't build a company purely around gas-guzzling SUV's, despite what Sergio seems to think is going to work going forward. At some point, the governments of places you want to sell them just aren't going to let you do it anymore.

So while FCA as a whole may be in a world of hurt right now, spinning off Jeep isn't a solution. Selling it to Ford or GM would probably be great for the brand... but they'll never do that. It's too much of a cash cow. Unless someone is willing to pick up the entire FCA package, it's gonna stay right where it is no matter how many people you get to sign an online petition.

__________________
.
Wild Weasel is offline   Quote
Reply

Tags
fca , fiat chrysler

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off






All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, Gladiator, Mopar and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to FCA US LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with FCA US LLC.