Well its time that I upgrade the sound bar (curse you Wranglerforum!!!) because I am doing the Tweeter mod (although I have always been in pursuit of better sound) so with the tweeter mod going to be done soon and the sound bar upgraded speakers already in I want to pull the sound bar and the front speakers and line the inner portions of the boxes with sound deadener and the sound baffle surrounds so yea, let the fun start!!
should I stick with what I have now (alpine OEM "upgrade" speakers) or go with something different? should I use coax speakers or non coax speakers? same for the fronts?
I tried changing out the premium speakers with some fairly expensive hertz speakers (Hertz MPK 165.3 Pro)
Sounded like crap and I ended up putting the Alpines back in.
What I found was that the Alpines were specifically built for that sound bar and you're not going to get a better sound. The alpine speaker is deep enough so the magnet rests right up against the back of the box which reinforces the back to keep the vibrations down. The hertz speakers aren't anywhere near as deep so at higher volumes the whole backside of the sound bar was vibrating like crazy. I did keep the hertz tweets and cross overs though.
Now I suppose what you could try (I didn't) is gluing a wood spacer to the magnet on your replacement speaker and let it act as reinforcement.
I do see where your coming from, would these work better in the front boxes (i am planing on hitting those as well, the main thing with the sound bar is I plan to put sound deadener or sound dampening to get the "hollow" sound out of the bar as I think I am pucking oup the reverbs inside the box and it is creating that hollow sound...
would you suggest those for the front positions? should I go with another set of the 77KICK10 for the front of the jeep or just stick 2 way coax speakers in the fronts? I am currently running two 77KICK10's in the sound bar as is and have enjoyed the sound from them...except the "hollow" sound I get from the bar....
Upgrading the sound bar correctly is time consuming. The big issue with the sound bar is the vibration. If I get my other computer unpacked I can post some picture of what it takes. You need to make sure left and right are totally separated. I did this by stuff as much closed cell foam as I could between the speakers, then seal it up with sound dampening material.
The next thing to do is make the speaker hole stiffer. I used 3 wooden dowels screwed and clued the front and back. I also added a piece of sound dampening behind the speaker. I also added some poly-fill.
Last thing I did was cover the whole sound bar with dampening material. The I bondo'd and sanded the entire bar, then painted it. I will say that from a sound perspective it is about perfect. It does not vibrate at all. From a looks perspective it could be better.
Wow! Looks like a lot of time, talent, and treasure is involved to make a worthwhile improvement.
I’ll just revel in my loss of hearing and loud tires and be happy with the OEM equipment and savings.
Don't forget that the stock head unit is limited specifically for those crappy stock speakers. Fiat, in its infinite wisdom, has figured out how to prevent those cheap speakers from sounding bad, by cutting out certain frequencies in the software of the head unit.
In short, a speaker upgrade will only be complete with an aftermarket head unit.
I did sound deadener material like dynamat all on the inside of each encloser, including the soundbar. Just placed strips of it covering most of the inside. Especially the backside and edges. Then added some polyfill and I can do full volume with zero distortion or rattling. Stuffed it pretty fill of the polyfill.
I used JBL speakers all around and it sounds great. Stock headunit and had stock "premium" alpine sound.
I cranked her up last night and the alpine speakers were bottoming out something awful (too much power for them to handle.)
This morning I went and bought 6x9's (Kenwood Excelon KFC X694) and am fitting them into the sound bar. I don't think the 6x9's will produce any better bass because of the limiting size of the sound bar but I should be able to drive them harder. They don't need to produce a lot of bass anyway... that's what the dual 12" subs are for.
I hope this sounds okay because there is no going back!
The soundbar face plate has been pretty much cut out and I made an adapter out of 1/2 inch ply to accept the 6x9's (they still need to be painted and caulked in). The back was reinforced with 1/2 inch ply. The ply has been glued and screwed (PL construction glue) so it should hold pretty solid.
Today the glue is drying and tomorrow I need to paint, caulk and finish but here is roughly what it looks like:
I cranked her up last night and the alpine speakers were bottoming out something awful (too much power for them to handle.)
This morning I went and bought 6x9's (Kenwood Excelon KFC X694) and am fitting them into the sound bar. I don't think the 6x9's will produce any better bass because of the limiting size of the sound bar but I should be able to drive them harder. They don't need to produce a lot of bass anyway... that's what the dual 12" subs are for.
I hope this sounds okay because there is no going back!
The soundbar face plate has been pretty much cut out and I made an adapter out of 1/2 inch ply to accept the 6x9's (they still need to be painted and caulked in). The back was reinforced with 1/2 inch ply. The ply has been glued and screwed (PL construction glue) so it should hold pretty solid.
Today the glue is drying and tomorrow I need to paint, caulk and finish but here is roughly what it looks like:
Having listened to the '14's Alpine Premium sound system (8 speakers) for 5 years and 107k miles, what FCA did to the Recons system with the 9 speaker system, I don't need to upgrade. It was like night and day. I love the sounds of the 9 speaker system. I might take it apart and pack it with sound deadening material some day, but in no hurry to do that.
I would have done those Mopar KICKER Upgrades in the front before the sound bar.
If you not out to spend a whole lot of money on speakers, the Kicker UPGRADE or the OEM Alpines. The Kicker 6.75” Deluxe Speaker Upgrade Kit are great and better than the Alpine SPV-65X-WRA I relaxed them with. The 6.75 Kickers gave really nice mid-bass. The alpines, NONE! But having a sub now it does not matter and they are clear sounding.
I would have done those Mopar KICKER Upgrades in the front before the sound bar.
If you not out to spend a whole lot of money on speakers, the Kicker UPGRADE or the OEM Alpines. The Kicker 6.75” Deluxe Speaker Upgrade Kit are great and better than the Alpine SPV-65X-WRA I relaxed them with. The 6.75 Kickers gave really nice mid-bass. The alpines, NONE! But having a sub now it does not matter and they are clear sounding.
I kept blowing subs, including the factory one. I now have dual 12" subs that will take a serious pounding. Couldn't get them under the seats though... too big.
I have a tuffy security enclosure in the back so I built a sub box about the same height as the enclosure, cut the enclosure short by 8" and the sub box now acts as the back of the security enclosure.
Having kick and also being able to feel it are really 2 different things. The only time I have been able to pull that off was in my last build on my truck with a 4 way speaker system, sub, woofer, mids and tweets. That was a very expensive build but by far the best system I ever had.
As you stated when you started the thread you are looking to upgrade the sound bar. IMO it is the number one cause for muddy sound in our rigs and has to be addressed. But once that problem is addressed the sound bar is not really that important, it really only applies fill for the sound stage.
Here is what I did. Front speakers are Audison AV K6 running 220 watts a side. This is an amazing setup but the speaker pods don't have the volume required for the woofer. We cut a 3 inch hole in the back and filled it with poly and they work great. Even though only rated at 125 watts RMS they handle this power with no problem.
Speaker bar has a set of Morel Maximo Coax 6 running of the head unit amp. A fairly inexpensive speaker but very good for the money. When setting the sound stage these run 6-10 db less than the front speakers.
The sub I have already talked about, it runs 550 watts.
Now has far a kick goes it is pretty good but that is really due to the Audison woofer. It will play down to around 50 HZ but I cross it over at 100 HZ. Small speakers are better at kick than larger ones. But feel requires a speaker that will move air and that is something a small speaker or a shallow sub won't do.
For the most part I listen to rock which in reality does not even need a sub but I also listen to classical which does. If I had the space and money I would run dual or quad 8 inch subs in sealed enclosures for the kick and a single 15 inch sub or larger in a ported enclosure for the feel.
I can feel the kick from my subs. Might because of the 500 watt amp or the fact that the subs are right below the driver and passenger. I can make it so you cannot see a clear image out of the mirrors. I like heavy metal and it delivers a clean punch. Some tweaking is required to clean up the base in certain songs.
I think having it right under the seat does make a huge difference. I know in my truck I had them right behind the seat and it was like having a message chair. But again that was the difference between have 2 full size 10's compared to having a shallow 12. The 12 will play just as low if not lower than those 10's would but it will not move the same volume of air so feel is not the same.
I have a 2 door as well and space is at a premium so a full size speaker is out, period I don't want to lose the space. The other thing I did not want was as little vibration in the vehicle as possible and to make it very hard for thieves to get the sub out. Below are some pictures of what I came up with.
It is a down firing setup that is suspended and isolated from the body of the Jeep by rubber sheets. It is hinged to allow me to get at my amp or the jack and lockable. The rear seat will still fit in the vehicle though most of the time it is not there. It also has 2 cubby's that allow me to carry assorted tools and recovery gear.
The isolation really does impact the feel aspect of the sub. If I crank it up above 32 or so you do start to feel it but it is pretty hard to be in there when it is that loud. There is zero distortion even if I take it all the way to 38, my max undistorted volume.
Changed about everything in my Recon.
Im a JL guy so other than the Alpine 209WRA everything else is JL
1000X1 pushing the 2 stealth boxes 500RMS to each side with the dial controller for controlling the bass and 3 separate sound setups (one for the driver, one for front zone, and one for top off).
VX600X6 for the separates in the sound bar, the 3.5's in the dash, and the 6.5 coax in the front.
@TerryC6 What Head Unit are you running? I have a Chinese Android Radio. I find the all albums do not play at the same level. Usually consistent for an entire album. Does your radio level out the sound between different recordings levels? That looks like an awesome setup!
@TerryC6 What Head Unit are you running? I have a Chinese Android Radio. I find the all albums do not play at the same level. Usually consistent for an entire album. Does your radio level out the sound between different recordings levels? That looks like an awesome setup!
The chinese units are running a bit outdated. The old standard for voltage output on the rca plugs was 1.4 volts (which is what the chinese units are). Today's standards are closer 4 or 5 volts output.... MUCH louder. Could be that the lower output has something to do with the inconsistency of levels.
You can fix that by including a sound processer which will amplify the signal before entering the main amps.
I have two of them. Started out with this one which is cheap but okay:
But then upgraded to this one:
Truth be told.... I'm not wild about the kicker. It sure brings the levels back up to par but I don't like the additional 'color' filters they stuck on it and I may look for another one
The other probable part of the issue is that on traditional head units it's all hardware driven, while on android units it's all software driven. The software, depending on what you're using can interpret things like level a bit differently.
@jaysong, I am running the Pioneer 8500. It has to do with how the music is recorded and mastered. It does not matter if I am listening to music I have ripped or listening to Pandora. Most music mastered say prior to 1990 will not be as loud as music mastered after that. Take America, A Horse with No Name, you need to turn it up to hear the first part of the song. Now take Big and Rich, Save a Horse, it is loud, actually really loud if you did not turn it down after listening to America.
You can look it up, Dynamic Range vs Loudness wars. I prefer the former and actually tuned my system just for that. My front speakers are only rated at 125 watts RMS, 220+ watts is available. I did the same thing with my sub, 385 watts vs 550+ watts available.
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