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Old 03-23-2017, 07:36 PM
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TPMS Mystery

I bought new wheels, tires and sensors for my 2015 JKUR. Unfortunately sold my OEM wheels, tires and sensors. I never had any problem with the TPMS with the OEM wheels even after tire rotations. Now with the new sensors, the front axles sensors are read very quickly but the rear axle sensors won't read. Rotate the rear wheels to the front and the rear wheels that are now on the front axle are read quickly. For about a week the passenger side rear was reading but it disappeared again. I have driven about a hundred miles in each rotation. Anyone have any idea what is going on? Where is the sensor that reads the rear axle?

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Old 03-24-2017, 12:14 AM   #2
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Have you tried unplugging the battery cable for a bit? Weird that only the fronts are reading. Or you can get the AEV procal and disable the TPMS all together. lol.

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Old 03-24-2017, 12:25 AM   #3
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Did you get sensors that support WAL? (wireless auto locate)
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Old 03-24-2017, 06:51 AM   #4
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Do you have the OEM sensors? If you sold the wheels and sensors before programming your new sensor, you shouldn't have done that.

I'm assuming the sensors were programmed incorrectly. The TPMS module is expecting a certain sensor ID. You need to use a scan tool that will read the TPMS module. Take it into a tire shop. They'll probably have to replace the rear sensors.
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Old 03-24-2017, 07:45 AM   #5
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I swapped my wheels with some OE Rubi takeoffs and did not need to do anything but drive it for a few miles for the sensors to start working. Maybe the reat batteries are dead?
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:10 AM   #6
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Bought my sensors from amazon, they didn't read at first. Disconnected the battery, waited twenty minutes, and they started working after less than a mile driving. They read pressure from the beginning, but I had a tpms light until after the battery cycle. Depending on who you ask, one will say you've gotta program them, some say maybe, most don't know. I didn't have to program.
I vote cycle battery.
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Old 03-24-2017, 12:54 PM
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Do you have the OEM sensors? If you sold the wheels and sensors before programming your new sensor, you shouldn't have done that.

They'll probably have to replace the rear sensors.
The sensors are made by Schrader the same as the OEM ones and has the same part number on them.

The rear tire sensors work when put on the front axle.
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Old 03-24-2017, 07:30 PM   #8
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If you have the sensors that support the Schrader WAL protcol (which are OEM), the TPM module automatically learns and stores the sensor IDs while driving. The auto-locating process only happens in the first 20 minutes of any drive cycle while traveling at speeds above 20 mph (the auto-locating process will start again ONLY if the vehicle has been shut off for 20 minutes or longer). The TPM then transmits the required information directly to the CCN in order to update the lamp, chime and EVIC display as required.

You can force a transmission and manually program sensor ID's with the TPM/RKE Analyzer tool, but it's not required (which is good because it's $800!). The TPM learns as described above. You can get one here if you really want to:

TPM/RKE Analyzer Kit CH9936

The TPM has a receiver mounted using a bracket to the rear crossmember frame which uses the signal strength to auto-locate the sensors (if they are WAL sensors). It looks like this:
https://i.imgur.com/0W6VV8o.jpg

The Mopar WAL TPMS sensors are made by Schrader (OEM). Best to get either the actual Mopar ones, or a Schrader 433 MHZ WAL one. The Mopar 68241067AB is the OE part, but they are about $60-$70. A good alternative is the Schrader 20398 (same sensor, but branded Schrader rather than Mopar), which is more like $20-$30.

I should note that many of the cheap sensors on Amazon are counterfeit knock-off's of Schrader or MOPAR. Basically if they are less than about $20, they are almost certiainly a Chinese knock-off that are the cause of 99% of TPMS problems. That has been my experience with them anyway.
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Old 03-24-2017, 07:40 PM   #9
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Also, the TPM module will generate these Diag Trouble Codes (DTCs):
  • B2199-16-BATTERY VOLTAGE - CIRCUIT VOLTAGE BELOW THRESHOLD
  • B2199-17-BATTERY VOLTAGE - CIRCUIT VOLTAGE ABOVE THRESHOLD
  • B21DD-84-SYSTEM VOLTAGE - SIGNAL BELOW ALLOWABLE RANGE
  • B21DD-85-SYSTEM VOLTAGE - SIGNAL ABOVE ALLOWABLE RANGE
  • C0077-00-LOW TIRE PRESSURE
  • C1501-96-TIRE PRESSURE SENSOR 1 - INTERNAL COMPONENT FAILURE
  • C1502-96-TIRE PRESSURE SENSOR 2 - INTERNAL COMPONENT FAILURE
  • C1503-96-TIRE PRESSURE SENSOR 3 - INTERNAL COMPONENT FAILURE
  • C1504-96-TIRE PRESSURE SENSOR 4 - INTERNAL COMPONENT FAILURE
  • C151C-00-TIRE PRESSURE SENSORS MISSING
  • C151D-00-TIRE PRESSURE SENSOR LOCATION UNDETERMINED
  • C1580-00-LEFT/RIGHT SIDE TIRE PRESSURE SENSOR LOCATION UNDETERMINED
  • C1581-00-FRONT/REAR TIRE PRESSURE SENSOR LOCATION UNDETERMINED
  • C1597-00-TPM SYSTEM DEACTIVATED-WINTER MODE
  • C2209-00-TIRE PRESSURE MONITOR INTERNAL
  • U0001-00-CAN C BUS
  • U0100-00-LOST COMMUNICATION WITH ECM/PCM
  • U0121-00-LOST COMMUNICATION WITH ANTI-LOCK BRAKE SYSTEM (ABS) CONTROL MODULE
  • U0141-00-LOST COMMUNICATION WITH IPM (FCM/TIPM)

To see if your module is throwing one or more of them with your sensors, you need a DTC reader. I use the Superchips Flashcal, which works well for the purpose.
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Old 03-24-2017, 08:19 PM
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Thanks for all that information. I have a Superchips Traildash 2 so I will have to see if I can read those codes.
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Old 03-24-2017, 08:30 PM   #11
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Been looking into this, but cannot find the info.

The TPMS system consists of the 4 tire sensors (which seem to work on your wheels) transmitting the pressure to the Wire Control Module (under the dash) through 3 transponders which are located in the wheel wells.

Three - two in the front, one in the rear. The fourth tire is recognized through the process of elimination.

Like you said, I'd wager that the one rear transponder is faulty. But for the life of me, I cannot find where these transponders are located!

Since it's a 2015 I'd ask the dealer. For anyone that wants to take a look, here's what a generic transponder looks like.

EDIT: After typing this, I see the reply from 2016Rubicon has the location.
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Old 03-24-2017, 09:29 PM   #12
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The TPMS system consists of the 4 tire sensors (which seem to work on your wheels) transmitting the pressure to the Wire Control Module (under the dash) through 3 transponders which are located in the wheel wells.

Three - two in the front, one in the rear. The fourth tire is recognized through the process of elimination.
Some vehicles may use multiple transponders in the wheel wells, but not the (recent model) Wranglers. The Wrangler only has a single receiver module called the TPM mounted on the rear crossmember. The TPM uses information transmitted from each of the wheel sensors as well as the difference in the strength of the signal received to determine the location of each of the sensors.

The information transmitted are samples from a from a dual-axis accelerometer in the sensor, which determines the right/left position of the tire monitor in response to a forward acceleration. The front/rear position of the transmitting tire monitor is detected by the signal strength of the transmission.

This is why the sensors are actually more complex than the receiver, and why the cheap sensors often don't work correctly.

Here are a couple more diagrams showing the TPM location:


For wiring, you can see the module takes power and connects to the CAN C bus. This is how it sends a request to the module that controls the indicator lamp and the text display (EVIC) to illuminate or flash the indicator lamp. Also, upon detection of a warning or fault condition, the electronic display will send a request to sound the chime via a LIN bus message to the Cabin Compartment Node (CCN).

TPM connector pinouts
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Old 03-24-2017, 09:37 PM   #13
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The MOPAR part for the TPM receiver is 68214825AD. Good pic here:

https://www.moparpartsgiant.com/part...8214825ad.html
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Old 03-25-2017, 08:48 AM
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2016Rubicon you are a wealth of information. Are you a Jeep service technician? In my research I also found the 3 sensor receiver information. So it actually is only one receiver module. I am leaning on getting another sensor from another source to test the receiver and the 5 new sensors I purchased.
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Old 03-25-2017, 10:29 PM   #15
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Not a tech, just familiar with many of the electronic systems in the Wrangler.

Apparently the SuperChips TrailDash can read DTC's. Go to Main Menu/Diagnostics/Trouble Codes/Read DTC's. Might be interesting to see if there are any from the TPM.

Just curious, what sensors do you have? Did they come from Amazon?

Also: you can power cycle the TPM by pulling fuse M29 in the TIPM.

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Old 03-26-2017, 09:37 AM
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Yes, I did get them from Amazon. I just ordered a set of Oro-Tek sensors from 4 Wheel Parts.

Ok, on a completely different subject, can I tap your knowlege on something I never got an answer from on prior post. I installed a daylight running module on my Jeep. I need to find an source for "Engine Running" power trigger for the relay. Any idea what I can tap into for that?

Thanks Dave
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Old 03-26-2017, 11:08 PM   #17
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Ok, on a completely different subject, can I tap your knowlege on something I never got an answer from on prior post. I installed a daylight running module on my Jeep. I need to find an source for "Engine Running" power trigger for the relay. Any idea what I can tap into for that?
I usually tap an ignition power source from one of these two locations:

1. The dash accessory power outlet (or a cigarette lighter if you have the Smoker's Package). This is a dedicated 10amp power circuit (#18 wire) off fuse M06. You can cut and splice into the wires, or order a pigtail with the necessary connectors here:

https://www.quadratec.com/products/96080_9801.htm

Nice instructions on how to get at the wiring if you just want to splice are provided by the kit:

https://www.quadratec.com/sites/defa...ons/160504.pdf

2. Fuse M07 in the TIPM can be placed in two positions to control if the rear power outlet has ignition-switched or always-on power. Like the above, this is also a dedicated 10A circuit not feeding any other systems in the vehicle. If you have the Alpine audio package you should have the rear outlet, otherwise it just ends in an unused plug behind behind the passenger taillight (inside) here:



If you don't have the third outlet, you can plug into this unused connector. You can also tap it's Light Blue/Pink wire along the way, or connect under the hood directly at the TIPM.

There are 3 connectors in the TIPM for this circuit: one to go to circuit F307 (LB/PK wire) to feed the outlet, and then both an ignition and always-on power.
You can use fuse tap to access the ignition-switched power here. This thread from 2008 has the details (the parts relating to tapping fuse M07 are still relevant for all current models):

Easy Switched Power Source
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:32 AM
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I need to tap a source that is hot only when the engine is running, not an accessory power source when the key is on. Thanks
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Old 03-27-2017, 08:27 AM   #19
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This problem may be over complicated. I deal with this weekly at work. Whenever I get a vehicle with new sensors not reading, I get out my pen. First I use a programming tool for TPMS. I walk around the vehicle, holding it to each sensor, and write down the sensor IDs.

Then I plug in a Snap-On Solus Ultra. It reads the TPMS module. I'll look for codes, if any. Then I'll read each sensor, and write down the IDs.

If the IDs don't match, I reprogram or replace the sensors as needed. If everything checks out (I've only had one vehicle where this happened), then you look for an internal fault in the TPMS system.

If you have an internal TPMS fault, which I've only seen once, then you pursue as Rubicon suggested.

Again, Schrader or OEM sensors. I actually prefer the generic sensors we use at the shop. I've never seen one go bad and they're easy to program. Plus the metal stem ones are more resistant to corrosion.
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Old 03-27-2017, 09:12 AM
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Is there anything that can be done without the programming tool?
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:24 AM   #21
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Just go to a local tire shop and ask them to write down each sensor ID for you. Takes 5 minutes and if you came to our shop we would do it for free.
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:28 PM   #22
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I need to tap a source that is hot only when the engine is running, not an accessory power source when the key is on. Thanks
Ahh, that is much more complicated!

Probably the best way to do this is monitor the diagnostic CAN-C bus for PID 0x0C (Engine RPM). If it's >0, the engine is running. Other than building your own interface with an Arduino and a CAN-BUS shield to drive a relay based on that value (which is admittedly rather involved), I don't know of any off-the-shelf product that will do this. Maybe one of the car radio adapters from Metra or PAC has a engine running output, but I don't think so.

An alternative is pin 40 on harness C2 on the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) under the hood is the sense output from the alternator, which is used to by the PCM to modulate the ground to the field winding and therefore regulate voltage output. When the alternator is not turning this wire will show 0V and system voltage when it is (and therefore act as an engine running trigger). I'm not sure what impact on the electronic voltage regulator in the PCM that adding an extra load to this wire would be (even a small one like a relay coil), but it might be okay. Not sure I would try it on my vehicle though
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Old 03-28-2017, 11:11 AM
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Just go to a local tire shop and ask them to write down each sensor ID for you. Takes 5 minutes and if you came to our shop we would do it for free.
My mechanic was able to read the wheel sensors. That at least told me that the sensors were working and readable but the rear axle was still not reporting on the dash.
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Old 03-28-2017, 11:22 AM   #24
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The question is not if the sensors are reading. It's if the IDs are correct. The TPMS module is expecting a certain sensor ID. Sometimes they automatically adjust, sometimes not.

You need to know what IDs the sensors have, and what IDs the TPMS module is expecting.

Have your mechanic write down that the sensor IDs are, then plug in an OBD II scan tool to access the TPMS module, and write down what IDs the module is expecting for sensor 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 if applicable. The position designation (left front, etc) is also good to have.
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:53 PM
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Replaced sensors. Problem Solved!!! All wheels were reading in under 3 miles of driving.

So these are very good sensors.

https://www.extremeterrain.com/tpms-kit-5-1316.html

These are crap. Save your money and a lot of frustration.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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