I have a '17 Big Bear edition JKU with 3.73 gears and factory LSD rear axle. From my reading here it seems I can expect the LSD to wear out sooner than later. My goal for the Jeep is to do some overlanding and hit some of the trails in Colorado. I have no intention of rock crawling.
I don't want to lift it or re-gear it either. I may go with 33" tires when I replace the factory KO2s in 265/70/17 though.
So given my modest goals, would a True trac in both axles be about 80% as good as lockers? What can I expect to pay for front and rear True tracs?
I have a '17 Willy's JK and, upon the recommendation of a reputable shop here, am most likely going with a Truetrac on the front Dana 30 and a Eaton E-Locker on the rear Dana 44. I don't think the locker is that much more expensive than the Truetrac in the grand scheme of things. Especially if you're having a shop do the work. They'll already have it torn apart. Price it out to see what the cost difference would be for you.
The install price is going to be close, just the extra labor to run the switch for the elocker. However, for what his intended use case is, I think a pair of Truetrac's are better than a truetrac and an elocker. Plus about $300 price difference in the hardware.
I'm a huge locker fan in the right uses and my use case demands lockers. I don't think his does.
Rock crawling or not I would never run front and rear Trutracs. Trutracs have a problem and this is if they get opposite tires the air or with little to no traction you are stuck, get the winch or the snatch rope out. I have had this happen more in over landing than rock crawling.
Trutrac rear is great if you live in snow country but pairing that with a locker up front means you probably will never be stuck over landing.
Put the TrueTrac in the front now and have the rear LSD repaired under warranty if it goes out.
When the warranty is up and the Limited Slip is now a Full Slip Differential, now is the time to do something in the rear.
A TrueTrac is terrific in all situations EXCEPT when a tire is in the air. Even then they are better than a clutch type LSD as you can use some brake loading to get it to grab.
Your Jeep also has BLD which will help in the rear.
I don't rock crawl so I'll be going TrueTracs front and rear on mine as well.
I’d do a rear TrueTrac to aid driving in all weather conditions on all types of terrains, and a front locker for those less frequent moments you need extra traction.
Both Truetracs wouldn't be bad, but consider the Truetrac up front and an E-Locker in the rear. I wouldn't lock a D30 in front, that's asking for crunched gears...
Am more overland focused than rock crawler. Live in snow country, pull a 1,200 lb. trailer while camping, all of which were considerations. Did my research, asked for feedback from folks running one or the other, picked my installer's brain (re-geared at same time) and decided TrueTrac.
Have been in the situation TerryC6 descibed, right front and left rear off the ground when traversing a washout at an angle. A couple three clicks on the e-brake handle, a gentle increase in pressure on the accelerator and the Jeep & trailer walked through with no drama. Still running an open diff up front, no plans to change.
For my use, have no regrets. A compromise a few times, but no regrets.
I have a '14 Polar Edition with the factory LSD in the rear, still works. When I re-geared from 3.21 to 4.56 I put a TruTrac in the front D30. This combination works great, even if you're lifting a tire, since our jeeps came with BLD. Or apply a little brake and it'll lock up for you. Maybe once your rear LSD wears out you can put a locker in there, if you really think you need it. Save the money for more overland gear!
i have truetracs front and rear in my jku and for me they have worked great. cant actually think of a time where i thought lockers would have been better. i have even had several occasions where people thought i was locked!
the great thing about the jk's, is that the truetracs functionality is greatly helped by the BLD system. so even if you did get two opposite corners off the ground, the BLD will kick in and make all 4 spin very easily, as compared to open diffs. it just might take a second to do it.
for me, true tracs ran me about $1000 front and rear, where lockers would have been in the $1800-1900 range, just for the parts. i did the install myself, so i saved about $1200.
i have truetracs front and rear in my jku and for me they have worked great. cant actually think of a time where i thought lockers would have been better. i have even had several occasions where people thought i was locked!
When in 4WD and performing a sharp turn, say around a hairpin turn, how does the steering feel? The TruTrac doesn't actually lock up unless there's some serious difference in traction between the wheels right?
I guess it really just depends on how you drive. I have no reservations about locking a D30 front, but then again, I dont ever hammer the skinny pedal. I do some rock stuff, but pick good lines and dont try to tackle obstacles my Jeep isnt able to handle.
When using Truetracs remember to use a proper lubricant such as Torco, which has no additives for clutches. I switched to Torco in the Truetrac I have in the rear differential of my Superduty and it has sure helped in engaging faster IMHO.
I went with a e-locker in the front and TT in the Rear. I live in MN and did not want limited slip in the front when dealing with snow and ice. My 12.5" wide Nitto Trail Grapplers are bad enough on ice without adding LSD into the mix on the front. Love it TTs in the rear. Replaced my factory LSD when I re-geared due to the spider gears being chipped.
I'm thinking about re-gearing my 3.21 gears and going with True Tracs front & rear as well. I keep the trails simple and do more overlanding and trips to the snow. Lockers would be overkill and the TT with the BLD will be more than enough for me.
Get a winch now and defer your locker/trutrac purchase until the factory LSD is done for for two reasons.
1) If you paid for it, use it up before you replace it.
2) Lockers and limited slip just let you get stuck in harder places to rescue. Even with front and rear lockers once you are stuck and you are by yourself overlanding.... you are done.
When over landing that is not always possible or even probable. I have gone out 3-4 weeks at a time, unless you're retired most people don't have the luxury. Within the next couple of years we are probably going out for 9 months. It won't all be over landing but a majority will be.
There's always the option of putting a strap around a tire and burying it in the mud a couple feet down to use as an anchor. It's tedious to do all that digging but it works.
Its all risk vs. reward in using a D30. I find that I can spend just a bit, beef up, regear and lock my D30 and if I blow it up, then I can justify a new D44. But until that time, I'll do all that I can with my D30. I've seen it both ways, but always in the case of the grenaded D30, it was caused by the skinny pedal.
I have LSDs on front and rear with 4.56 gears. I did it on purpose. They work 24/7. Where the Rubis are wondering if the trail is tough enough yet to lock them, I’m already at the top of the hill.
LSD has it's draw backs. The big downer about them is that they actually have to slip before they engage. In other words you have to lose traction first THEN they engage. Sometimes that moment of lost traction is enough to do you in. Lockers on the other hand just work. No slippage or lost traction needed. Of course you have to remember to lock them!
The other thing I don't like about them is that you can't control them. Sometimes its better to be in open dif mode and you haven't got that option with lsd. It works whether you want it to..... or not.
I’m regearing to 4.56 with a 30 up front. I trying to decide between this exact thing. Lockers front and rear, Truetrac front and rear or a combo of both.
It snows where I live and I don’t wheel that hard but I plan on keeping this Jeep forever. Moab is on the bucket list as well as some other places. I just want to be prepared!
I’m regearing to 4.56 with a 30 up front. I trying to decide between this exact thing. Lockers front and rear, Truetrac front and rear or a combo of both.
It snows where I live and I don’t wheel that hard but I plan on keeping this Jeep forever. Moab is on the bucket list as well as some other places. I just want to be prepared!
I'm in Manitoba (Canada). We have snow 7 months of the year. I've driven both lsd and lockers. Both have their pros/cons.
The down side (and the upside) to lockers is that you have to manually engage them. For city driving this can be both good and bad.
LSD will give you faster acceleration off the line and will disengage by themselves when they're not being used. This makes them great for city driving in one respect, but dangerous in another. Fishtailing (unintentional drifting) can happen easily and without warning with lsd. You have to be gentle on the gas! With an open dif if you tromp on the gas (in 2wd) one wheel spins and the other one doesn't. The non spinning wheel still has traction and therefore gives you lateral control and you don't start fishtailing. You go forward (albeit slower) but remain straight. If you tromp on the gas with lsd both wheels spin every time sending you into a fishtail. If you're expecting the fishtail it's no big deal but I can't tell how many times I've gone around a corner and just touched the gas and had the rear end fish into the parked car lane.
Lockers remain open dif until you CHOOSE to engage them. Most of the time you ride in the city in open dif mode. Slower off the line but with slightly better control. On the Winter trails I just lock the rear before I'm even on the trail. The front lock I turn on/off depending on the turns I have to do. Sometime there is A LOT of turning off/on with the fronts and that's a pain in the ass.
If you're stuck in a snow drift, lockers are your best friend. Unlike LSD, Lockers don't need to slip before they engage. They just work and that becomes important when you're stuck.
Picture 4 people pushing a car out of a drift. One guy starts pushing while the others sit there and day dream then one at a time they start pushing too.
Compare that to 4 people pushing the car in one big huff all at the exact same time.
Truetracs are instantaneous in their engagement. They dont give the wheels a chance to slip. That moment of hesitation your thinking of is true of a lunchbox style locker, but not truetracs.
Btw, who uses their lockers in the city? Must be some extreme mall crawling going on in the far north!
I have, some of our streets are steeper than many of the off road trails I have been on. In Seattle alone we have 25 streets with 18% grades or better.
That is the problem on black ice, instead of one tire spinning both do which means the rear end is coming around on you. You might as well of had a locker.
And this is the larger issue in over landing and I run across terrain like this often:
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