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Old 09-10-2017, 12:24 PM   #121
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I suppose if I were living in a War Zone, like at one time, I would have my weapon with me 24/7, but this is not the case. If I were going to church, I wouldn't have it with me. If I were going to my grand kids school for a function, I wouldn't have it. Teachers carry now days! If I were going to the Police Station I wouldn't have it unless told to bring it. Get my point?
I think in the US we are living in a time of many violent individuals and groups with psychopathic minds and warped ideologies. Let's see we have, ISIS, KKK, White Nationals, Antifa, Nazis, BLM, MS-13, The Sinaloa Cartel, The Gulf Cartel. - You get the idea. In addition we have all common nobody thugs.

I would especially carry in church. Just Google "church shooting" to see that this is a big problem. Anti-Christian bigotry is on the rise around the world and is promoted by many "mainstream" US politicians (Feinstein for example) via the guise of progressive secularism. Many pastors of churches are urging their people to carry in church and conducting firearms training classes.

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Old 09-10-2017, 12:30 PM   #122
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I think in the US we are living in a time of many violent individuals and groups with psychopathic minds and warped ideologies. Let's see we have, ISIS, KKK, White Nationals, Antifa, Nazis, BLM, MS-13, The Sinaloa Cartel, The Gulf Cartel. - You get the idea. In addition we have all common nobody thugs.

I would especially carry in church. Just Google "church shooting" to see that this is a big problem. Anti-Christian bigotry is on the rise around the world and is promoted by many "mainstream" US politicians (Feinstein for example) via the guise of progressive secularism. Many pastors of churches are urging their people to carry in church and conducting firearms training classes.
My Colt .45cal only holds 9+1, so sounds like I'm out gunned anyway. Guess I'll have to depend on my lazy dog to protect me. or maybe, use my head?

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Old 09-10-2017, 12:31 PM   #123
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Actually those are places where you may need it. School shootings happen, church shootings happen. Why because shooters now they will have little resistance.
Agreed, some of our most tragic shootings have been done by psychotic nuts in those settings. They expect no resistance in those types of settings which is why they are chosen.
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Old 09-10-2017, 12:55 PM   #124
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Okay, so give me an example of a time when it is good to kill someone with a hand gun for "defensive purposes" rather than calling the police? We are talking about vigilantism too, right?

How about this one? It is the only one I can think of where a hand gun could be used legitimately.

A guy car jacks you with a handgun. So, while he has his gun on you, you reach down for your handgun, or try to get it from the lock box, and you get killed along with the rest of your family.

Or, you are involved in road rage, and you kill someone claiming self defense. But, road rage has to escalate, so it can't be self defense because you had to help escalate it. Now, someone is dead because of stupidity.

No??? Then, give me a legitimate reason to shoot and kill someone while you are driving a Jeep, alleging self defense?

Taking the law into your own hands is NOT a legitimate reason. I'm waiting.

Because when seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
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Old 09-10-2017, 12:56 PM   #125
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My Colt .45cal only holds 9+1, so sounds like I'm out gunned anyway. Guess I'll have to depend on my lazy dog to protect me. or maybe, use my head?
That's easy to fix. You are but one man, but you won't be alone. You are in CA, so I don't know, but around here I would not be the only one carrying in church, guaranteed
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Old 09-10-2017, 01:01 PM   #126
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Want to go back to the debate about the Second Amendment for a moment. It's common to hear the anti-gun crowd point to the word "militia" as a justification for normal citizen's not being able to bear arms. Keep, yes - but "bear", no.

Read the Second within the context of the other Amendments around it. These amendments set boundaries on what governments can do to free citizens. The Second isn't about empowering a national armed force (militia), but keeping the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms in the face of a government that must have a standing army/militia.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The security of a free state requires an organized and well-disciplined army (which, at the time, was comprised mostly of militia units). But having a standing army on one's soil provides a temptation for the government to assume a power-role over the common citizen. The Founders didn't want that. Just look at the Third Amendment. The right of the ordinary citizen was preeminent under a constitutional democracy.

So the Second ensures that the common person retained every right of self-defense, including the right to keep and bear arms, and specifically in the face of a government run amok. Granting only the military or police the right to bear arms runs counter to the Constitution. And in a world where bias and polarization is increasing every day, maintaining the ability to defend one's own life (or the lives of other innocent people, like children in a school) if no one else can or will - is a fundamental right of our nation.

The "militia" argument posed by the anti-gun crowd just doesn't hold water. Re-read the Constitution - why the Founders felt those Amendments were so important - and dig a little deeper into early American history.
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Old 09-10-2017, 05:18 PM   #127
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The "militia" argument posed by the anti-gun crowd just doesn't hold water. Re-read the Constitution - why the Founders felt those Amendments were so important - and dig a little deeper into early American history.
youíre exactly right but there's nothing to debate as that issue is moot, for at least the time being. There exists precisely 9 human beings on planet earth whose opinions matter on that issue and they settled it in 2008 when they expressed their majority opinion in the Heller decision that the 2nd Amendment confers an individual right to bear arms, period, end of story, the highest law in the land has spoken and defined the 2nd Amendment. Now, the anti-gun crowd is certainly free to piss, moan & complain until the cows come home that they donít like it and they remind us every 10 minutes of that; but what they cannot do is say we have no individual right without simultaneously showcasing their ignorance of the law. Yes, the law. Not my or your interpretation of the law, the actual law.

By the way as an academic aside Iíd say go even further back & re-read the Federalist & Anti-Federalist Papers & any/everything else you can get your hands on regarding the legislative history surrounding the drafting of the Constitution & the first ten amendments (including the state constitutions) & youíll find a laughable dearth of support for the anti-individual rights position. There simply was no anti-individual gun rights 'movement' at that time, nope that's a special treat only we get . If Heller is at some point reversed itís going to be a painfully illogical display of judicial activism. But Iím a fair guy, Iíd imagine the left feels thatís exactly what the majority of Heller already is hahaha
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Old 09-10-2017, 05:32 PM   #128
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Yep. We're staying the same thing, just using different words. Ignorance (of a whole lot of stuff - law, history, citizenship. personal responsibility, reading comprehension,...) run amok.

The "vigilante" line is nothing but a straw man argument. Not worth the time.

And I'm as ignorant as they come. It was a constitutional law professor who pointed out to me that I wasn't reading with context in mind. If ignorant ol' me does it - and can be corrected - I just thought I'd share the insight.
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Old 09-10-2017, 07:16 PM   #129
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I suppose if I were living in a War Zone, like at one time, I would have my weapon with me 24/7, but this is not the case. If I were going to church, I wouldn't have it with me. If I were going to my grand kids school for a function, I wouldn't have it. Teachers carry now days! If I were going to the Police Station I wouldn't have it unless told to bring it. Get my point?
Yeah, no need to carry in church. I wish I could live in your world...must be a peaceful place.
As a CCW holder, my philosophy is carry if it's legal, I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...urchgoers-dead

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ch...hurch-shooting
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Old 09-10-2017, 07:22 PM   #130
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actually a glock 10MM is becoming a popular bear gun. Carry both spray and bullets.
Yup. I bought a 10mm just for Archery....bear hunting. I also carry Bear spray, should an unexpected encounter occur, I'll reach for the spray first. I'll make the Bears evolutionary advantage work against it.
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Old 09-10-2017, 11:13 PM   #131
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Legitimate?
No, your estrogen-driven/fear-based mindset is not legitimate.
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Old 09-11-2017, 12:04 AM   #132
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<snip>

Also on teachers carrying I think that's a good thing if they are trained and competent. I actually trust myself more than anybody I have not seen in action.
My wife will be one of those if the rules change where we are...

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Old 09-11-2017, 02:35 AM   #133
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My wife will be one of those if the rules change where we are...

If the laws were as we 2A supporters wish, no one except for a few locals would have ever even heard of Sandy Hook!

-

BTW, your wife's grip looks similar to mine. They'll try to change that if she ever attends a 'Front Sight' class. Don't listen to them.
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:50 AM   #134
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If the laws were as we 2A supporters wish, no one except for a few locals would have ever even heard of Sandy Hook!

-

BTW, your wife's grip looks similar to mine. They'll try to change that if she ever attends a 'Front Sight' class. Don't listen to them.
Yep... She's been through multiple classes and unless you are doing a full teacup or something really goofy, they let you be comfortable. That's P100 and P200. She'll get P300 and P400 probably next year. In those more advanced classes, they might be a little more critical.
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Old 09-11-2017, 04:05 PM   #135
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When it comes to my sidearm, I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Children are curious so teach them properly how to respect guns at an early age and you won't have problems with them later. I removed the curiosity factor by letting my own kids handle my (unloaded and open breach) guns any time they wanted and all they had to do was ask. When I felt they were old enough we made multiple trips to the range and today they are all very proficient in the handling of, as well as the laws governing, guns.

With that being said, that Tuffy under seat drawer in in my very near future.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:55 AM   #136
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Yep... She's been through multiple classes and unless you are doing a full teacup or something really goofy, they let you be comfortable. That's P100 and P200. She'll get P300 and P400 probably next year. In those more advanced classes, they might be a little more critical.
I did the 4-day handgun many years ago, along with acquiring a Diamond level membership. Got suckered for an upgrade to Ambassador a couple years later, but at least by selling the 'custom' Front Sight stamped 9mm pistols I broke even.

Granted, the training is good, if you want to attend enough to make your investment of time and money worthwhile.

I live 30 minutes from Front Sight, haven't been back, and still have 3 or 4 Diamonds that are pretty much worthless! Every time I think it's too good to be true . . . I STOP READING his propaganda!
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:27 AM   #137
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I live 30 minutes from Front Sight, haven't been back, and still have 3 or 4 Diamonds that are pretty much worthless! Every time I think it's too good to be true . . . I STOP READING his propaganda!
Lol. Iggy is a real piece of work. His reverse marketing strategy is the oddest thing I've seen. He starts the campaign low then raises the price as time goes on. I knew his hotel and shopping mall was not realistic, there is no good water supply on that land (or below either). But, I did spend 4 days with an Iraqi war vet instructor that was very cool. Paid $150 for a Diamond many years ago and got my money's worth.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:43 AM   #138
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Lol. Iggy is a real piece of work. His reverse marketing strategy is the oddest thing I've seen. He starts the campaign low then raises the price as time goes on. I knew his hotel and shopping mall was not realistic, there is no water supply on that land. But, I did spend 4 days with an Iraqi war vet instructor that was very cool. Paid $150 for a Diamond many years ago and got my money's worth.
Good that you felt compensated. But his instructors are weird!

I had a good one. Patient, friendly and informative.

My friend, who I signed up with at the same time, somehow got stuck with a different 'instructor' (azzhole).

He ran the course like a Marine D.I. We could hear him yelling 2 ranges away! That's not the way to treat people paying decent $ for proper instruction .

-

If you get out this way again, let me know. Always glad to put a face with a name!
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:52 AM   #139
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When it comes to my sidearm, I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Children are curious so teach them properly how to respect guns at an early age and you won't have problems with them later. I removed the curiosity factor by letting my own kids handle my (unloaded and open breach) guns any time they wanted and all they had to do was ask. When I felt they were old enough we made multiple trips to the range and today they are all very proficient in the handling of, as well as the laws governing, guns.

With that being said, that Tuffy under seat drawer in in my very near future.
Very good. That's how we handled it, takes the mystery out of the picture.
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:02 AM   #140
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Lol. Iggy is a real piece of work. His reverse marketing strategy is the oddest thing I've seen. He starts the campaign low then raises the price as time goes on. I knew his hotel and shopping mall was not realistic, there is no good water supply on that land (or below either). But, I did spend 4 days with an Iraqi war vet instructor that was very cool. Paid $150 for a Diamond many years ago and got my money's worth.
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Good that you felt compensated. But his instructors are weird!

I had a good one. Patient, friendly and informative.

My friend, who I signed up with at the same time, somehow got stuck with a different 'instructor' (azzhole).

He ran the course like a Marine D.I. We could hear him yelling 2 ranges away! That's not the way to treat people paying decent $ for proper instruction .

-

If you get this way again, let me know. Always glad to put a face with a name!
Why is it that we have such odd birds in that industry at times... I have had one of "those" instructors as well. All of my girls have been very happy with their instructors. Is it just a "men" thing? I've got really bad knees... Literally 4 ACL surgeries and they are still not good. So one of the live fire exercises was to drop down behind a cover and put 2 in two separate targets. You were "supposed to" drop to knees. I couldn't do it, so I dropped to butt and easily put 2 in both targets and kept going. You'd have thought I muzzle flashed the whole class listening to him...
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:31 AM   #141
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FirstJeep1, the thread starter, specifically indicated that his question was not to be replied to with gun control discussions. However, social justice warriors have some form of personal disorder that does not allow them to respect themselves, others, or the beliefs and wishes of others.



The Tuffy under seat lockbox works very well and is easy to install.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:17 AM   #142
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FirstJeep1, the thread starter, specifically indicated that his question was not to be replied to with gun control discussions. However, social justice warriors have some form of personal disorder that does not allow them to respect themselves, others, or the beliefs and wishes of others.
That's not true at all. I find they usually respect themselves overly well.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:25 AM   #143
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That's not true at all. I find they usually respect themselves overly well.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:47 AM   #144
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Good luck killing a bear with a handgun though
Bear spray statistically works better, though 10mm Auto with hardcast is a mother f&*%^$ too!
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:49 PM   #145
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That's not true at all. I find they usually respect themselves overly well.

Narcissism and respect are two very different things.




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Bear spray statistically works better, though 10mm Auto with hardcast is a mother f&*%^$ too!

I reside 15 miles up the mountain in a very remote area along with the deer, elk, coyote, bear and mountain lions. Up here we realize that humans are NOT the top of the food chain.

Mountain lions have absolutely no fear of a human, group of humans, or even a group of humans with dogs. Sidearms are sufficient if (unfortunately) you are faced with protecting yourself with a cat (they are beautiful creatures and I don't want to see even one less of them). The elk and deer leave you be and the bears typically want to do the same. However, springtime puts everything on the table. During the spring thaw I have a trusty 45 - 70 rifle loaded and ready. Too many stories of people attempting to defend themselves with less against a bear. If you are using ANY sidearm caliber against a bear you had better have nerves of steel in order to stand your ground long enough for the bear to get close enough for an accurate eye shot. Bears, too, are beautiful and majestic creatures that we can all live in harmony together. But they only have nature and instinct. We must use our brains to try and avoid confrontations in the first place.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:46 PM   #146
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I have a trusty 45 - 70 rifle loaded and ready. Too many stories of people attempting to defend themselves with less against a bear.
I had a black bear brush up against my tent while in the Sierras camping. There are rules for backpacking around bears than when practiced will allow for safe passage.

Thank God you don't have grizzlies in CO. That's a whole different ball game than a black bear. A work friend has a brother that lives in Alaska and he carries a .460. But realistically, they can close ground very quickly, and getting a good shot off might not be so easy.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:03 PM   #147
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I've always carried a 460 in a Diamond D chest rig while backpacking in Alaska. It's a lot of gun in a revolver but aside from a suppressed 22 it's probably my most fun hand gun to shoot.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:48 PM   #148
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I do however have a youth sized aluminum bat in the door area between my seat just incase someone acts crazy
LPT: Do your defense attorney a huge favor and also carry a glove and a baseball.
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Old 09-14-2017, 12:25 AM   #149
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I had a black bear brush up against my tent while in the Sierras camping. There are rules for backpacking around bears than when practiced will allow for safe passage.

Thank God you don't have grizzlies in CO. That's a whole different ball game than a black bear. A work friend has a brother that lives in Alaska and he carries a .460. But realistically, they can close ground very quickly, and getting a good shot off might not be so easy.
While camping in Kennedy Meadows (So. Sierras) about 20 years ago, a black bear came into our campground, entered a few cars and rifled through some ice chests.

It got in the back of my friend Jimmy's truck. Jimmy woke up, hollered "Bear!", and took off running in his underwear, while the bear ran the other way with Jimmy's 2 lb. steak! Too bad no one had a video camera. It was hilarious.

A couple weeks later the same bear was found by a local resident in his kitchen. 30 rounds (2 magazines) of 9mm from his Beretta finished off the bear. But the kitchen was a bloody mess! The bear thrashed around pretty good as it was dying.
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:37 AM   #150
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