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Old 01-02-2020, 08:59 PM
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Firm opinions for sound and vibration

Happy New Year!

I'd appreciate firm opinions and solutions.

2004 Rubicon, all stock shape and lift. Let's assume that everything is new:

-Front end
-Shocks
-Front wheel Bearings
-Ball joints
-Mounts
-Control arms
-U-Joints

SOUND: Whoom...whoom...whooom...
SPEED: 50+ Miles
VIBRATION: 50+ Miles

NOTE: Sound & Vibration present in 2WD but go away in 4WD.

I have an idea but will require more input for the fix.

What is your opinion?

Best,
B

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Old 01-04-2020, 07:09 AM   #2
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Wheel balance.

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Old 01-04-2020, 01:30 PM
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Thanks!

Tires are only at 3K and were balanced when new. No off roading.

Do you think balancing is needed again? Have you experienced the same issue and balancing solved it?
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Old 01-04-2020, 08:45 PM   #4
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I have had vibrations like you are referring to that appear at certain speeds. I rebalanced my tires when they hit 25,000 miles just because, drove around town and all seemed fine. Got out on the interstate and up to speed and instantly realized they messed up the balance. Took it back to them and the back right was 3ozs off.
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Old 01-06-2020, 02:14 PM
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Vibration of the drive shaft - results of inspection

One more time, with the intentions of helping the JEEP community, here are my findings:

- It appears so that the new U-Joints on the double cardan joint of the front drive shaft have excessive "axial movement". Although all parts are new, this movement should be limited by using thicker retaining clips and be brought back to specs to eliminate vibration.

Here is a good video explaining the process:


I will report on the final outcome after I work on the driveshaft tomorrow.

B
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:10 AM
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Vibration of the drive shaft - results of inspection

UPDATE:

The axial movement of the U-Joints was adjusted to higher tolerances and tires were rotated and balanced.

THIS DID NOT ELIMINATE THE VIBRATION THAT STARTS AT ABOUT 50 M/H.

To make sure that the issue is not a mechanical and caused by the transmission, shifting was controlled and the vibration was still present at 50 M/H - independent of any gear change (BTW, auto).

Next, I am thinking of:

-FAILING DRIVESHAFT
-BAD REAR AXLE BEARINGS

Any other opinions?

BA
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:16 AM
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Not a fix for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibikee View Post
I have had vibrations like you are referring to that appear at certain speeds. I rebalanced my tires when they hit 25,000 miles just because, drove around town and all seemed fine. Got out on the interstate and up to speed and instantly realized they messed up the balance. Took it back to them and the back right was 3ozs off.
This did not fix the problem. See my "UPDATE"

Best,
BEN
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:24 AM   #8
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Might have some info in it that might help you
www.jeep forum.com/forum/f9/diagnosing-death-wobble-fixing-non-dw-shimmies-wobbles-tj-version-2359089/
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:27 AM   #9
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The thing of most importance (to me) is that is goes away in 4WD.
So when transfer case is engaged, all is well?
Check your transmission mount, the rubber piece that holds the tranny to the cross member. Maybe motor mounts, too.
Any pulsation in rotors (felt through brake pedal) when lightly applying brakes at highway speeds?
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTarna View Post
The thing of most importance (to me) is that is goes away in 4WD.
So when transfer case is engaged, all is well?
Check your transmission mount, the rubber piece that holds the tranny to the cross member. Maybe motor mounts, too.
Any pulsation in rotors (felt through brake pedal) when lightly applying brakes at highway speeds?
Thank you for the input.

I am good with "elimination process"

-New Transmission mount (MOPAR)
-New Motor Mounts
-No pulsation through the rotors
-To add, the front end is well put together and new - including the steering damper. Nothing is wobbling

The vibration comes from under the vehicle, accompanied by a rotating sound "whooom...whooom...whooom...whooom..."

Cheers,
BA
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BM3 View Post
Might have some info in it that might help you
www.jeep forum.com/forum/f9/diagnosing-death-wobble-fixing-non-dw-shimmies-wobbles-tj-version-2359089/
Thanks BM3!

All parts you can imagine in the front end are new and of good quality, including the dreaded control arm bushing over the diff case.

The vehicle DOES NOT have a death wobble, never had.

This is an "under car vibration"

Cheers,
Ben
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace High Benny View Post
Thank you for the input.

I am good with "elimination process"

-New Transmission mount (MOPAR)
-New Motor Mounts
-No pulsation through the rotors
-To add, the front end is well put together and new - including the steering damper. Nothing is wobbling

The vibration comes from under the vehicle, accompanied by a rotating sound "whooom...whooom...whooom...whooom..."

Cheers,
BA

Any cupping on tires?
Still, that "goes away in 4WD" thing is bugging me...
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CTarna View Post
Any cupping on tires?
Still, that "goes away in 4WD" thing is bugging me...
Tires are in great shape. In fact, rotated and re-balanced last Friday.

BA
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:06 PM   #14
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If it truly goes away in 4wd, it could be worn bushings in rear control arms, letting the axle slightly rotate under torque and start vibes? Going into 4hi might slightly reduce the pressure in the rear.


Have you tried removing the rear driveshift & driving in 4hi (essentially fwd) as a test?
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Shark_13 View Post
If it truly goes away in 4wd, it could be worn bushings in rear control arms, letting the axle slightly rotate under torque and start vibes? Going into 4hi might slightly reduce the pressure in the rear.


Have you tried removing the rear driveshift & driving in 4hi (essentially fwd) as a test?
Hi Shark,

All control arms in the vehicle are new - that includes ALL bushings!

Have not tried you suggestion but I'll consider.

BA
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:08 PM   #16
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Is this a test, and will you be giving us the right answer at the end???
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:17 PM
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Is this a test, and will you be giving us the right answer at the end???
Absolutely not a test!

I consider myself an "expert do-it-yourselfer" (I can rebuild engines & transmissions) and, considering that the vehicle has brand new parts -except for a few, like rear axle bearings - I am really trying to find out the reason for the 50 MH vibration

I will, of course, post the solution.

BA
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Old 01-13-2020, 06:26 PM   #18
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I'd go back to the wheels and tires...

Verify the tires are balanced correctly and all wheels are true and torqued correctly. Also verify that the tires are true. New tires often aren't as round as they should be, and tire shops seem to get the balance 100% right about 50% of the time. lastly make sure you have the correct style lug nuts.

The "no issue in 4WD" is perplexing though. Double check the alignment.
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:26 PM   #19
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Did you have the vibes before changing out all the stuff on your list? Had a similar problem with a Dodge/Cummins . . . it would vibrate on pavement, then when going into a long sweeper corner, it would vibrate then go out of phase, then back in phase . . . a rear brake drum wasn't centered with the wheel studs, and the front tire on the opposite tire was slightly out of balance. Took quite some time to find this.
Jacked up each mounted wheel and checked the run-out with a dial indicator. Found the problem. Good luck, vibes are hard to find sometimes.
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Old 01-13-2020, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Macarena Man View Post
Did you have the vibes before changing out all the stuff on your list? Had a similar problem with a Dodge/Cummins . . . it would vibrate on pavement, then when going into a long sweeper corner, it would vibrate then go out of phase, then back in phase . . . a rear brake drum wasn't centered with the wheel studs, and the front tire on the opposite tire was slightly out of balance. Took quite some time to find this.
Jacked up each mounted wheel and checked the run-out with a dial indicator. Found the problem. Good luck, vibes are hard to find sometimes.
While your approach may be right, will all things changed / new (including u-joint & centering yoke for the front driveshaft), I am leaning towards other possibilities like, bent driveshaft, rear axle bearings...

BA
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace High Benny View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macarena Man View Post
Did you have the vibes before changing out all the stuff on your list? Had a similar problem with a Dodge/Cummins . . . it would vibrate on pavement, then when going into a long sweeper corner, it would vibrate then go out of phase, then back in phase . . . a rear brake drum wasn't centered with the wheel studs, and the front tire on the opposite tire was slightly out of balance. Took quite some time to find this.
Jacked up each mounted wheel and checked the run-out with a dial indicator. Found the problem. Good luck, vibes are hard to find sometimes.
While your approach may be right, will all things changed / new (including u-joint & centering yoke for the front driveshaft), I am leaning towards other possibilities like, bent driveshaft, rear axle bearings...

BA
you can pull driveshafts to rule them out and help pinpoint where to look.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:15 PM
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you can pull driveshafts to rule them out and help pinpoint where to look.
Agree!

Will do that as well.

BA
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:31 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Ace High Benny View Post
Happy New Year!

I'd appreciate firm opinions and solutions.

2004 Rubicon, all stock shape and lift. Let's assume that everything is new:

-Front end
-Shocks
-Front wheel Bearings
-Ball joints
-Mounts
-Control arms
-U-Joints

SOUND: Whoom...whoom...whooom...
SPEED: 50+ Miles
VIBRATION: 50+ Miles

NOTE: Sound & Vibration present in 2WD but go away in 4WD.

I have an idea but will require more input for the fix.

What is your opinion?

Best,
B
if you cannot replicate the symptoms when the transfer case is engaged I would suspect about something related to the transfer case that vibrates when disengaged...
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Chicabum View Post
if you cannot replicate the symptoms when the transfer case is engaged I would suspect about something related to the transfer case that vibrates when disengaged...
I'd say, this too makes sense.

With all the information gathered, I will continue to check.

BA
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:33 PM   #25
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I had a pulsating vibe that I couldn't get rid of. Finally took it to a specialist and they stated the pinion depth was wrong on the front axle (I had just bought the axle). They changed the depth and put in a new crush washer and ran a pattern, after that I had no more vibe.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:44 PM
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I had a pulsating vibe that I couldn't get rid of. Finally took it to a specialist and they stated the pinion depth was wrong on the front axle (I had just bought the axle). They changed the depth and put in a new crush washer and ran a pattern, after that I had no more vibe.
I too may take it to a "specialist". However, I have not touched the differential and the pinion.

BA
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:51 PM   #27
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Had both drive shafts re balanced at an industrial drive line shop, had new motor/trans mounts installed, wheel alignment(s), as someone mentioned . . . a wheel may be balanced, but that doesn't mean the mounted tire is round. Check yours with a dial indicator. You may be surprised what you find.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:55 PM   #28
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This is probably not the solution but who knows. It did happen to me once. They balance the drive shafts by welding little tabs of metal on them. I had one of these remove itself and go flying down the road. Yes a very odd vibration at about 50 mph was the result. Good luck and I hope you find it.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:06 PM   #29
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This is probably not the solution but who knows. It did happen to me once. They balance the drive shafts by welding little tabs of metal on them. I had one of these remove itself and go flying down the road. Yes a very odd vibration at about 50 mph was the result. Good luck and I hope you find it.
Use a couple of large hose clamps. Place them where the missing weight was. Tightener is positioned where the weight was.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:09 AM
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Decided to go to a "specialist"

It will, perhaps, be for the first time in about 20 years that I'll taking a vehicle to a mechanic.

With all the money I save by doing the major work myself, I am OK with it.

SOMETIMES, THE RELIEF OF A DIAGNOSIS AND A FIX IS PRICELESS!

The Rubicon is going to a "specialist" tomorrow.

I'll report the findings and the outcome of the fix.

BA
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