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Old 05-08-2019, 02:19 PM
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Rear Main seal Replace.

Hi. 2004 Wrangler Unlimited.

Have to replace rear main seal 4.0L engine.
Might there be any info here on that topic?


I see lots of rust on the cat converter bolts.
Looks like that might be the worst part of the job.

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Old 05-08-2019, 03:35 PM   #2
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There's a couple of pretty good YouTube videos on the subject, worth looking at them.

I did this job a few months ago, it is not bad. You are correct, getting the front exhaust pipe/converters out is kind of a pain. Spray the bolts with Liquid Wrench the day before, and have U-joint sockets and long extensions handy. If you have access to an electric impact wrench, that is a big help.

When you install the new seal, follow the FSM instructions carefully. The seal surface gets motor oil, but the outward face gets a detergent coating. If you buy a genuine Mopar seal, it will have the detergent (in dry form) already on it. Also, you have to buy the specific Mopar RTV sealant (Mopar Gasket Maker p/n 04318083AB, $16 on amazon), and install the beads exactly like the FSM drawings show, if you don't, it will start weeping oil in a few weeks, and that will royally piss you off. Obviously, the main bearing and oil pan torque specs and tightening sequence should be followed carefully. Buy a new oil pan gasket too.

Good luck.

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Old 05-10-2019, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyDana35 View Post
There's a couple of pretty good YouTube videos on the subject, worth looking at them.

I did this job a few months ago, it is not bad. You are correct, getting the front exhaust pipe/converters out is kind of a pain. Spray the bolts with Liquid Wrench the day before, and have U-joint sockets and long extensions handy. If you have access to an electric impact wrench, that is a big help.

When you install the new seal, follow the FSM instructions carefully. The seal surface gets motor oil, but the outward face gets a detergent coating. If you buy a genuine Mopar seal, it will have the detergent (in dry form) already on it. Also, you have to buy the specific Mopar RTV sealant (Mopar Gasket Maker p/n 04318083AB, $16 on amazon), and install the beads exactly like the FSM drawings show, if you don't, it will start weeping oil in a few weeks, and that will royally piss you off. Obviously, the main bearing and oil pan torque specs and tightening sequence should be followed carefully. Buy a new oil pan gasket too.

Good luck.
Thanks much.
That helps alot



That
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:54 PM   #4
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Doing mine too, decided to replace all the bearings while I have it open. Old wrench guy told me to rotate the seal so its not lined up with the the split
between the cap and block.
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Old 05-11-2019, 10:49 AM   #5
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^^^you can't..there are wings on the block side of the seal...
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Old 05-11-2019, 11:26 PM   #6
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http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/en...ear-main-seal/


followed this in Nov. 18 and no leaks....not hard, take your time.
ScottyD, MightyDana35 and tzukows like this.
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Old 05-11-2019, 11:34 PM   #7
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..there are wings on the block side of the seal...
Not on a 2004 model.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:42 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Adpeebs View Post
Doing mine too, decided to replace all the bearings while I have it open. Old wrench guy told me to rotate the seal so its not lined up with the the split
between the cap and block.
forgive my naivety but are you saying you replaced the main crankshaft bearings while the engine was in the car?
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:30 PM   #9
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forgive my naivety but are you saying you replaced the main crankshaft bearings while the engine was in the car?
It would be possible, but the transmission has to be separated from the engine, and the crankshaft removed from the engine, which means the timing chain cover and all that has to be removed. And then plastic-gauge the bearings and all that. I sure wouldn't want to do that on jack-stands. No sir, hard pass.
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:32 AM   #10
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[QUOTE=MightyDana35;34332109]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirSwagger View Post
forgive my naivety but are you saying you replaced the main crankshaft bearings while the engine was in the car?
Yep, I loosened all main caps and unscrewed them 2 full turns each, that dropped the crank just enough to get the bearings out. I took a round tube of 3/4" plumbing cooper, stood it on its end and cut down the center around 1 inch deep. Then cut one side off so it looked like a "C". Then took a hammer and tapped it flat. Worked great to tap the upper bearing around the crank.
My bearings were not worn much so this was more just to refreshing them up. Took about an hour to replace.
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:37 AM   #11
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^^^you can't..there are wings on the block side of the seal...
My seals didn't have the wings. All the pics showed it but my 2000 4.0 didn't have them...maybe it change with other years but mine could be rotated.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:16 AM   #12
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Hmm seems like quite a job. I need to do my rear man seal soon and was hoping I could do the bearings at the same time. Will need to conduct more research I feel.
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:20 PM   #13
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Hmm seems like quite a job. I need to do my rear man seal soon and was hoping I could do the bearings at the same time. Will need to conduct more research I feel.
That hard part will be removing the exhaust. Once that's out of the way the oil pan can be removed. I did both main and connecting rod bearings.
The copper tool i made was the key to getting the upper main bearings out. That made the job easy to remove and also reinstall them.


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Old 05-16-2019, 05:56 AM   #14
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That hard part will be removing the exhaust. Once that's out of the way the oil pan can be removed. I did both main and connecting rod bearings.
The copper tool i made was the key to getting the upper main bearings out. That made the job easy to remove and also reinstall them.


Is it so hard to remove the exhaust? Thought it was just a couple of bolts at the top and then down along the exhaust just past the skid plate. The hardest part seems like removing the bolt if they're rusty and then manoeuvre it around the skid.

Could you post a photo of the pipe you made if you get a chance, please?
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:16 AM   #15
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[/quote]

Is it so hard to remove the exhaust? Thought it was just a couple of bolts at the top and then down along the exhaust just past the skid plate. The hardest part seems like removing the bolt if they're rusty and then manoeuvre it around the skid.

Could you post a photo of the pipe you made if you get a chance, please?[/QUOTE]

The nuts will be the hardest part of the removal. If they've been on for awhile getting them loose is a pain.

Pic of the tool I made, copper tab on end would bend easily around the crank and follow the bearing around.
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Old 05-25-2019, 11:16 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adpeebs View Post
Is it so hard to remove the exhaust? Thought it was just a couple of bolts at the top and then down along the exhaust just past the skid plate. The hardest part seems like removing the bolt if they're rusty and then manoeuvre it around the skid.

Could you post a photo of the pipe you made if you get a chance, please?[/QUOTE]

The nuts will be the hardest part of the removal. If they've been on for awhile getting them loose is a pain.

Pic of the tool I made, copper tab on end would bend easily around the crank and follow the bearing around.[/QUOTE]

Getting the exhaust off is not hard. Getting the exhaust off without shearing some bolts......next to impossible. I would not even go there just for that reason.
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Old 07-25-2019, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Adpeebs View Post
That hard part will be removing the exhaust. Once that's out of the way the oil pan can be removed. I did both main and connecting rod bearings.
The copper tool i made was the key to getting the upper main bearings out. That made the job easy to remove and also reinstall them.


Thanks much for the info. I have the 2004 LJ 4L. I would like to replace leaking seal.
I just took a look underneath.
I found the upper bolts for the exhaust pipes, but the lower flange bolts are inside
the skid plate. How do I support the engine/transmission if I remove the skid plate.
Actually I would like to get rid of the skid plate and replace with something that doesn't
cover the transmission linkage and the transmission oil pan. Salt collects under there and rusts everything and freezes up the linkage.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:46 PM   #18
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There's no plausible way to eliminate the skid plate. The first time you bottom out on something, your transmission or transfer case housing will incur serious damage.


Plus, you could not do this without installing a cross-member to support these components. There are several brands available but they are still meant to be used with some sort of skid plate.



Bad idea.
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Old 07-25-2019, 10:32 PM   #19
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I'm guessing you've never removed the Skid Plate. If not, You may want to check if the bolts will unfasten without issue. The nutserts inside the frame very commonly fail.

Supporting the Driveline is typically done by securing a Jack Stand under the Transfer Case Output Slip Yolk.

Be sure to brush and lube the threads of the Exhaust Bolts you will be unfastening, well in advance. Some Jeeps will achieve enough clearance to pull the Oil Pan by removing only the bolts at the Manifold Flanges. Some will require the exhaust to also be disconnected at the Muffler. Be prepared to cut the studs at the Muffler and replace with bolts if unable to break the Nuts free. Those studs at the Muffler can absolutely ruin your day, so do your best to create enough clearance with only the Manifold Flange bolts removed.

You will also have to remove the Starter.

Tools that can make this job much easier are a Punch that is the same diameter of the steel ring inside the Seal and something that can inject dish soap into the Upper Seal Race. When punching out the old seal, only punch on the steel ring inside of the seal. It should only take one good smack. Some folks have trouble getting the Upper Seal into place, a heavy dose of dish soap does wonders.

You should download the FSM for your Model Year. Google Search "Jeep TJ FSM", the first hit is a Jeep Forum Thread containing all FSM's and Part Lists for every TJ Model Year. In the FSM, search Crankshaft Oil Seal, it will show you the locations on the Rear Main Bearing Cap to apply RTV. Poor use of RTV can result in improper torque on the Bearing Cap. The FelPro Oil Pan Gasket includes instructions on where to apply RTV to the Gasket as well.

This project will give you a great opportunity to inspect the bottom end of your engine. Oil Pickup, Timing Chain, Piston Skirts, Cylinders and check Torque Values on Rod Bearing Caps and Main Bearing Caps if you feel necessary. You can inspect the primary Catalytic Converters as well. It is also a great time to replace the Oil Pan if your's suffers from corrosion.
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Old 07-26-2019, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Mattaeus View Post
I'm guessing you've never removed the Skid Plate. If not, You may want to check if the bolts will unfasten without issue. The nutserts inside the frame very commonly fail.

Supporting the Driveline is typically done by securing a Jack Stand under the Transfer Case Output Slip Yolk.

Be sure to brush and lube the threads of the Exhaust Bolts you will be unfastening, well in advance. Some Jeeps will achieve enough clearance to pull the Oil Pan by removing only the bolts at the Manifold Flanges. Some will require the exhaust to also be disconnected at the Muffler. Be prepared to cut the studs at the Muffler and replace with bolts if unable to break the Nuts free. Those studs at the Muffler can absolutely ruin your day, so do your best to create enough clearance with only the Manifold Flange bolts removed.

You will also have to remove the Starter.

Tools that can make this job much easier are a Punch that is the same diameter of the steel ring inside the Seal and something that can inject dish soap into the Upper Seal Race. When punching out the old seal, only punch on the steel ring inside of the seal. It should only take one good smack. Some folks have trouble getting the Upper Seal into place, a heavy dose of dish soap does wonders.

You should download the FSM for your Model Year. Google Search "Jeep TJ FSM", the first hit is a Jeep Forum Thread containing all FSM's and Part Lists for every TJ Model Year. In the FSM, search Crankshaft Oil Seal, it will show you the locations on the Rear Main Bearing Cap to apply RTV. Poor use of RTV can result in improper torque on the Bearing Cap. The FelPro Oil Pan Gasket includes instructions on where to apply RTV to the Gasket as well.

This project will give you a great opportunity to inspect the bottom end of your engine. Oil Pickup, Timing Chain, Piston Skirts, Cylinders and check Torque Values on Rod Bearing Caps and Main Bearing Caps if you feel necessary. You can inspect the primary Catalytic Converters as well. It is also a great time to replace the Oil Pan if your's suffers from corrosion.
Thanks much! You are correct. Oil pan is rusted bad. May even be rusted through at some location. Will try first to just lower the exhaust as you have suggested. I didn't know there were nut serts inside the frame. I can see why that could be problem.
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Old 07-26-2019, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by logem View Post
There's no plausible way to eliminate the skid plate. The first time you bottom out on something, your transmission or transfer case housing will incur serious damage.


Plus, you could not do this without installing a cross-member to support these components. There are several brands available but they are still meant to be used with some sort of skid plate.



Bad idea.
Thanks much for info. Do you know where I could find one of the cross-members you mentioned above?
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:03 PM   #22
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plan on doing mine when i put the new front diff and lift in that way i'll have good room to work
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:25 PM
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I'm guessing you've never removed the Skid Plate. If not, You may want to check if the bolts will unfasten without issue. The nutserts inside the frame very commonly fail.

Supporting the Driveline is typically done by securing a Jack Stand under the Transfer Case Output Slip Yolk.

Be sure to brush and lube the threads of the Exhaust Bolts you will be unfastening, well in advance. Some Jeeps will achieve enough clearance to pull the Oil Pan by removing only the bolts at the Manifold Flanges. Some will require the exhaust to also be disconnected at the Muffler. Be prepared to cut the studs at the Muffler and replace with bolts if unable to break the Nuts free. Those studs at the Muffler can absolutely ruin your day, so do your best to create enough clearance with only the Manifold Flange bolts removed.

You will also have to remove the Starter.

Tools that can make this job much easier are a Punch that is the same diameter of the steel ring inside the Seal and something that can inject dish soap into the Upper Seal Race. When punching out the old seal, only punch on the steel ring inside of the seal. It should only take one good smack. Some folks have trouble getting the Upper Seal into place, a heavy dose of dish soap does wonders.

You should download the FSM for your Model Year. Google Search "Jeep TJ FSM", the first hit is a Jeep Forum Thread containing all FSM's and Part Lists for every TJ Model Year. In the FSM, search Crankshaft Oil Seal, it will show you the locations on the Rear Main Bearing Cap to apply RTV. Poor use of RTV can result in improper torque on the Bearing Cap. The FelPro Oil Pan Gasket includes instructions on where to apply RTV to the Gasket as well.

This project will give you a great opportunity to inspect the bottom end of your engine. Oil Pickup, Timing Chain, Piston Skirts, Cylinders and check Torque Values on Rod Bearing Caps and Main Bearing Caps if you feel necessary. You can inspect the primary Catalytic Converters as well. It is also a great time to replace the Oil Pan if your's suffers from corrosion.
Finally got to the main bearing seal.
Here is photo of lower main bearing. Do you think needs to be replaced?
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Old 08-06-2019, 12:13 AM   #24
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Eh. There is a bit of wear on that bearing but definitely not at maximum wear.

That would be a great question for Chad at Golen Engine. https://golenengineservice.com/contact-us/

Or Zach at 505 Performance [email protected]

It's hard to recommend replacing just one bottom main bearing. I would just make sure it goes back in lubricated (Motor Oil is fine) and torqued properly. Due to the wear shown, it would be a good idea to check the torque values on all bearing caps. Check the Pickup Screen & Timing Chain as well. Rod Stud Nuts backing off are a common cause of Piston Slap. Remember where to place RTV on the cap as well, I'll leave the figure from the FSM.

If you take care while doing this job and go the extra mile, it can extend the life of your motor tremendously. You will probably notice a difference in how sweet the engine runs afterwards.
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:53 AM
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Eh. There is a bit of wear on that bearing but definitely not at maximum wear.

That would be a great question for Chad at Golen Engine. https://golenengineservice.com/contact-us/

Or Zach at 505 Performance [email protected]

It's hard to recommend replacing just one bottom main bearing. I would just make sure it goes back in lubricated (Motor Oil is fine) and torqued properly. Due to the wear shown, it would be a good idea to check the torque values on all bearing caps. Check the Pickup Screen & Timing Chain as well. Rod Stud Nuts backing off are a common cause of Piston Slap. Remember where to place RTV on the cap as well, I'll leave the figure from the FSM.

If you take care while doing this job and go the extra mile, it can extend the life of your motor tremendously. You will probably notice a difference in how sweet the engine runs afterwards.
Thanks much for info!
I have a question about changing transmission lines,
but should probably start a new thread.
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Old 08-08-2019, 11:38 AM
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Eh. There is a bit of wear on that bearing but definitely not at maximum wear.

That would be a great question for Chad at Golen Engine. https://golenengineservice.com/contact-us/

Or Zach at 505 Performance [email protected]

It's hard to recommend replacing just one bottom main bearing. I would just make sure it goes back in lubricated (Motor Oil is fine) and torqued properly. Due to the wear shown, it would be a good idea to check the torque values on all bearing caps. Check the Pickup Screen & Timing Chain as well. Rod Stud Nuts backing off are a common cause of Piston Slap. Remember where to place RTV on the cap as well, I'll leave the figure from the FSM.

If you take care while doing this job and go the extra mile, it can extend the life of your motor tremendously. You will probably notice a difference in how sweet the engine runs afterwards.
I've downloaded the FSM from links found at this forum, but can't find any information or illustrations on RMS replacement or oil pan replacement in these manuals. Where did you find this illustration? What I'm looking for is where to put to put RTV sealant on the oil pan gasket. I DO know where the anaerobic sealer goes on the bearing cap, but do you also put RTV on the bottom half of the RMS that goes into the bearing cap?
Have watched the YouTube videos and others. One applies lots of RTV other applies none or very little and only in spots. Does the FSM have any recommendations?


I just pulled the bottom half of the seal out of the bearing cap. A lot of dirty oil collected below that seal.
Does that mean oil leaked out around the bottom of the seal also?
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Old 08-08-2019, 12:49 PM   #27
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In the 2004 FSM, Rear Main Seal Instructions are in Section 9, Page 106. The dab of RTV on the bearing cap is all the FSM calls for. People get silly with RTV and it can end up actually being the cause of leaks. You definitely don't want to put any RTV on the seal itself or the seal race in the bearing cap. Once you start the motor all that RTV is gonna go floating around in your motor oil and end up getting stuck in the pickup tube.
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Old 08-08-2019, 03:47 PM
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In the 2004 FSM, Rear Main Seal Instructions are in Section 9, Page 106. The dab of RTV on the bearing cap is all the FSM calls for. People get silly with RTV and it can end up actually being the cause of leaks. You definitely don't want to put any RTV on the seal itself or the seal race in the bearing cap. Once you start the motor all that RTV is gonna go floating around in your motor oil and end up getting stuck in the pickup tube.

Thanks. That really helps to see the FSM instructions.


Quite a few oil pan bolt heads are disintegrated.
What do you think about using stainless bolts?

Also I primed both skid plates with Corroseal, and then painted with some rust
protective paint. Do you have any opinions on this Corroseal stuff?
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Old 08-08-2019, 05:02 PM   #29
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Stainless for Oil Pan bolts is an excellent choice. In cold weather climates its always a good idea to use as much stainless hardware as possible. Just remember that stainless fasteners are not tempered like a grade 8 or metric 10.9. Stainless threads can be easily mangled if fastened dry or forced. As long as you're careful and use anti seize, you wont have any issues. 23 Oil Pan bolts are 1/420.5, 4 are 5/1618.75, check the FSM on that.
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:21 PM
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Stainless for Oil Pan bolts is an excellent choice. In cold weather climates its always a good idea to use as much stainless hardware as possible. Just remember that stainless fasteners are not tempered like a grade 8 or metric 10.9. Stainless threads can be easily mangled if fastened dry or forced. As long as you're careful and use anti seize, you wont have any issues. 23 Oil Pan bolts are 1/420.5, 4 are 5/1618.75, check the FSM on that.

Thanks for info.
I spent about two hours removing Transmission pan bolts. Had to heat them all.
One had head rusted off. Hope heat didn't hurt nothing.
But found this note in manual...


NOTE: If the transmission is disassembled for any
reason, the fluid and filter should be changed.
(1) Raise vehicle on a hoist. Place a drain con-
tainer with a large opening, under transmission oil
pan.
NOTE: One of the oil pan bolts has a sealing patch
applied from the factory. Separate this bolt for
reuse.
(2) Loosen pan bolts and tap the pan at one corner
to break it loose allowing fluid to drain, then remove
the oil pan.
(3) Install a new filter and o-ring on bottom of the
valve body and tighten retaining screws to 5 Nm (40
in. lbs.).
NOTE: Before installing the oil pan bolt in the bolt
hole located between the torque converter clutch
on and U/D clutch pressure tap circuits (Fig. 153), it
will be necessary to replentish the sealing patch on
the bolt using MoparT Lock & Seal Adhesive.
p { margin-bottom: 0.1in; line-height: 115%; }


I had planned on putting in all stainless bolts.
But is there some special bolt requiring special sealer?

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