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Old 11-30-2017, 01:49 PM
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(Another) FSJ/Waggy D44 Swap into a YJ

If you've ever read my build page or signature, you know that an upgraded front axle was being planned for, though no specific plan was ever finalized. I wanted something to be of comparable strength, size and weight to the Ford 8.8 I'm running in the rear.

I still have every intention of keeping this YJ spring-under and will only likely ever run 35" MTs (at least until we buy/build our next house and I get a properly sized workshop and garage - then it's tons and 40's ). I also haven't decided on the front, but I'm fairly certain that I'm not going to watch to stretch the rear.

Looking around, there are TJ D44's to be had. Despite running D30 outers, they can be built up enough to sufficiently be safe to run hard with 35" tires. TJ D44's would be a relatively easy install for a YJ, really needing only a few hours of cutting/grinding and some perches welded on.

The catch is that a TJ D44 runs about $2000 used

I thought about simply finding a HP D30 from an XJ, trussing it sufficiently, adding some RCV's and an ARB/Eaton, then plopping it under my YJ. By doing so, I'd eliminate the CAD area that is known to crack under the stress of larger tires and rock crawling (not that it happens often, but enough to notice) and would have the ability to clamshell the tubes much better. At the end of the day, I'd be dumping some good money into a D30, though one likely to withstand a few back and forth trips to the Rubicon and Moab...

In a rare, quiet moment in the back yard, I had a vision of clarity. All of a sudden it hit me that even if I were to find a reasonably priced TJ D44, I'd be dumping good money into basically the same axle but with a slightly tougher ring and pinion. I'd still be stuck with mediocre brakes, non-serviceable hubs, and no lock-outs. For a few months at least, the thought of a TJ D44 with trussing, CM shafts and a selectable locker was a good move and improvement (ignoring the cost at least). About 15 minutes in the backyard with the Mrs., two-fingers worth of rye, and the chimenea going, the thought of me even considering a TJ D44 made me pissed off at myself.

So if not a TJ D44, then what? Custom Currie? A Hi-9 of some sort? I didn't know what at that point. I even toyed with the idea of going full-width

Enter my latest Craigslist score:
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Advertised as a "set only", I convinced the seller that I didn't need the AMC 20 he had this paired with and we struck up a deal. It was perhaps a bit more than I wanted to pay, but he was close by and the axle was complete and appeared to be in good shape. Originally advertised as a 1987 axle, the BOM and build code suggest otherwise. The BOM is 610090-7 7, putting this from a 1980 Wagoneer/Cherokee with factory open carrier and 2.72 gears, with a build-date of 1/2/1980.

There are some interesting notes about these axles that I did not find in my original research and still cannot find a lot of information about (or at least I find a lot of misinformation about!). The first thing I noted was that by my best measurements, the perch-to-perch distance is 31-1/2" (the YJ being 31"). Almost every write up I found suggests a 32" perch-to-perch center.

Tied to perch-to-perch width, almost every write up states that I'd have to redrill the center pin hole 1/2" closer to the pumpkin, forcing me to grind the pumpkin housing away. Although a little blurry, you can see what I mean in this write-up at JeepTech.

My picture below shows that this doesn't appear to be the case and it does not match up with the shape of other images I've found that are similar to the JeepTech article linked above.

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I thought maybe I had missed some subtle note or clarification that differentiated between years - or maybe differences between left/right hand drop, but looking back over my links suggests otherwise. Rereading everything over, I do see that there were some comments regarding actual perch-to-perch measurements (or comments regarding a different offset compared to the YJ), but few people ever bothered to contradict or confirm those comments, so I likely just ignored them the first time through.

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Whatever the reason for the difference in the cast-in perch shape, it doesn't really change the price of beans. At the end of the day, I'm still 1/2" off on total spring perch width. I'll have to make a decision at some point - do I redrill the driver-side cast perch hole 1/4" inward and move the passenger side over 1/4" as well? Do I run the driver side perch as is and move the passenger side perch over the full 1/2"? Or do I just run it as is without any modifications? Will 1/4" off kilter really have any performance or reliability impact on the springs/shackles or bushings? Those are questions I'll need to ponder a bit...

In the meantime, I'll be on the hunt for some small-bearing spindles for the 5x5.5 conversion, as well as keep a weathered eye on the horizon for some used 5x5.5 wheels and maybe some late holiday season specials.

Plans for the D44 at this point:
1) Selectable locker (with 4.88's to match my rear)
2) CM shafts or RCV's (haven't decided)
3) Clamshell or truss
4) Factory "on-the-top" tie rod setup with inverted-T design like the factory YJ, but with aftermarket DOM parts and 1-ton ends.

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Old 11-30-2017, 06:18 PM   #2
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Very interested in this post but I do have one question. You mentioned small spindles in 5 on 5.5 lug pattern so what’s you 8.8 lug pattern? Thanks!


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Old 11-30-2017, 07:00 PM   #3
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Why not just run a D44 Waggy rear end, all 6 lug?
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:09 PM   #4
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1/4" won't matter as long as you run springs with an arch.... I have a full size chevy front under a YJ... same issue with center pin spacing.... put one in and give the other spring a little yank and put it in.... done deal.
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by brymac66 View Post
Very interested in this post but I do have one question. You mentioned small spindles in 5 on 5.5 lug pattern so what’s you 8.8 lug pattern? Thanks!


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@brymac66 - small-bearing Chevy spindles + Ford hub + Ford Rotor + Chevy brake calipers and mounting bracket will result in a 5 x 5.5" pattern. The 8.8 is currently 5 x 4.5" (factory YJ/Ranger/Explorer) but it is easy to convert to 5.5" spacing with adapters. I'll pick up some used adapters to get everything running and set up, but am planning on going with the Ultimate 88 kit, which is dual-drilled for both the 4.5" and 5.5" pattern. Converting to 5.5" pattern is then as simple as moving some studs and then redrilling some rotors (the rotors are hubcentric and easy to do with a drill press).
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Nubby55 View Post
Why not just run a D44 Waggy rear end, all 6 lug?
A few reasons for me...

a.) The D44 Waggy is kinda pricey in this area and I already have the 8.8 setup with new gears, bearings, and Detroit.

2.) The F8.8 is a bit stronger than a D44 in stock and upgraded form

d.) The 8.8 has factory disc brakes that actually work well (with some tweaking of the ECGS cables).

That being said, I wouldn't mind going to 6-lug front and rear. If I should run across a centered-rear D44, I'd probably pick it up for shiggles! I'm sure I could recoup most, if not all of the money I put into the F8.8.
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Gottagofast View Post
1/4" won't matter as long as you run springs with an arch.... I have a full size chevy front under a YJ... same issue with center pin spacing.... put one in and give the other spring a little yank and put it in.... done deal.
Good to know and exactly what I was looking to hear... I have the 2.5" springs on there, but also have the 4.5" Extreme springs in the side-yard too. I may just slap it under the 2.5" springs and see how it all looks. If I'm uncomfortable with the angle (I'm guessing it's probably barely perceptible!), I'll try it with the 4.5" springs... I'll have plenty of room for 35"+ tires at that point!
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Old 12-01-2017, 10:39 AM   #8
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I have 2.5" springs over my axles on that one... absolutely can't tell that the center pins didn't line up.... it's a non issue. At one point I had stock springs sprung over and it still wasn't any problem at all

That said.... I suggest going w the 4.5 extremes sprung under.
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Old 12-01-2017, 10:45 AM   #9
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Here's 2.5's sprung over w 38's
Chev 44 front and 14b rear...
These pics were taken 10 or so years ago fwiw....
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:27 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by pc1p View Post
... That being said, I wouldn't mind going to 6-lug front and rear. If I should run across a centered-rear D44, I'd probably pick it up for shiggles! I'm sure I could recoup most, if not all of the money I put into the F8.8.
'93 & up Isuzu Rodeo/Honda Passport Dana 44

I just looked at the one under the ZJ I just bought, and the diff looks to be centered...at least in the dark...with a flashlight...from the porch.

Edit: Here's a link. The Isuzu/Honda D44 is about 2/3 down the page.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/tr...rd-axle-guide/
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:23 PM
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Well that didn't take long... other than having to go buy a new Dana 44 4-post socket (who knows where my last one went!), the front FSJ D44 is all ripped apart and ready for rebuild.

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I found a local powder-coating company that will media blast the housing, backing plates, etc. for me for a reasonable rate (quoted at $90/hr and says that he can typically do 2 full axle assemblies and parts in 1 hr). I will say, as much as the D30 unit-bearings mostly suck, I've never been elbow deep in old wheel grease when replacing one!

The insides were the original, 1979 manufactured D44 ring and pinion, however the seals, ball-joints and u-joints look much newer. The factory gearing, a whopping 2.72 ratio, and carrier were still plenty tight inside the housing, suggesting this is likely a good candidate for a rebuild.

I checked around Craigslist so more and found a FSJ D44 centered(ish) rear for $600. When I asked the guy why he was asking so much, he basically laughed at me and said "I know what these are worth!".

As @chris yoos suggested, another good D44 option is the Isuzu D44. This a true, steel/cast D44 with a lot of good perks. I did some reading and found a good page on JF with some Isuzu Rodeo D44 info:

93-95 Rodeo/Passport Dana 44 93-94 only had dana 44 with the v6 95.5 may have a different axle
58" WMS to WMS
4.10, 4.30 & ??? Available (all use thick cut gear sets with 3.73 and down carriers)
12.3" Disk brakes standard on all 4x4's
Leaf sprung SUA
No shock mounts welded to axle
Standard d44 pinion yoke can be used
6 on 5.5 bolt pattern (not safe to redrill due to hub size)
3" .25 axle tubes that do not appear to neck down at all.
Set10 Bearings used on axle shafts

96-97 Passport/Rodeo Dana 44
60.5 WMS Perfect YJ/TJ Swap
No 4.10 gears available in these two years
4.30 for 6Cyl and 4.56 for most 2wd 4cyl applications (Rare)
All 4.30 Ratio rears had Disk Brakes. Only the 4.56 came with drums
2.75 Axle Tubes that neck up to 3.25 just before the brake backing plates to accommodate the bearings
Set10 Bearing
All use Standard size Dana 44 gears that are thick cut on a 3.73 and down carrier
30 Spline Axle shafts

98+ Passport/Rodeo Dana 44
63" WMS
Coil Sprung
Available in 4.10, 4.30 & 4.56 (Rare)
Uses JK style HD Dana 44 R&P
3.73 and numerically lower carrier for all gear ratios
Thick cut Ring and oversized pinion
8.9" Ring Gear
Dana 60 Yoke fits on stock pinion
JK Wheel bearings and seals are the same part# as rodeo/passport and fit
6 on 5.5 pattern


As it turns out, the editors at JP consider it to be a great option and one of them even considers it the most under-swapped axle out there!

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I was on the hunt for a 96-97 due to the 60.5" wms-wms width. I found a junkyard in Phoenix that said they had one and wanted a fair price for it. I loaded up the Subaru and hooked up the trailer and drove the 45 minutes through town to get there, only to find out that the axle was actually from a 1998! Choices, choices, choices... I already made the drive and although the '98+ axles are supposed to be ~40% stronger than a standard D44, the 63" width left me with a decision to make...

Ultimately, I used my disappointment in the year to my advantage. I played like I was going to leave and keep looking, but ended up negotiating the price down a bit as I told the guy that this axle was going to require a bit more work than the 1997 axle I was promised. We came to an agreement and he had his worker rip it out of a Rodeo on the spot and I was quickly on my way back home.

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It was a bit serendipitous in the end - I got to see that the Rodeo wasn't wrecked and was in good running condition with ~100k miles before the engine blew. Also, after doing some more reading and checking around, the 98+ axles have a lot of advantages that the JK non-Rubi D44 axles have and even take the same seals and wheel bearings. This should make beefing it up that much easier, as well as open up a lot of gearing and traction options. The 63" width doesn't concern me too much with the ~61" front axle, but worst case I'll just get a couple of 1 or 1.5" spacers and call it good!

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The D44 rear has factory 4.10 thick cut gears on a newer series-3 low-ratio limited slip carrier. This adds some substantial thickness to the ring gear. The pinion is also quite a bit bigger - D60 size in fact and even uses a D60 pinion yoke. The rear rotors are also massive - 12.4" and are factory vented.

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My only concern is the factory e-brake on the D44 and how I would hook it up, but honestly after fighting the Ford 8.8 e-brake woes that were supposed to be a "simple fix", I may just go with a t-case brake and stop worrying about it (also considering getting an old VW style hand-brake and mounting it in place of my center console, but that's another thread in and of itself!).

Now, time to find my grinding and cutting discs...
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:17 AM   #12
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That finned cover looks mighty familiar! LOL
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:15 AM
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I got the axles back from the sandblasters and they look great. The Waggy front axle ended up needing a bit more time than originally quoted (both axles and a set of backing plates took 2 hours total), but the finished product is amazing! Super smooth and no rust inside the axle tubes or outside.

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95' YJ Build thread | 4.0L 5-spd | RE Extreme 4.5" | Dana 44's | 4.88 gears | Eaton E-Lockers | 35" MTRs | 15 x 8 AR Baja's | 1" Daystar BL | TJ Flares | Adam's driveshafts | NP231HD | JB Super Short SYE | BDO 1" MML | Viair OBA | Warn XD9000i | Hella H4's |
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Old 12-19-2017, 02:00 PM   #14
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Is the wagoner D44 high pinion? I am thinking about putting one in my YJ and i hope it will work with my front CV shaft setup i just bought
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:30 AM
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Is the wagoner D44 high pinion? I am thinking about putting one in my YJ and i hope it will work with my front CV shaft setup i just bought
It's a low pinion setup, though not as low as the later D30's used in the TJs.

Regardless, it should work just fine with your CV shaft as I don't believe the driveshaft length should change much. From all my research and from visual checks (though no formal measurements yet), even though it's a LP, the diff is slightly larger and longer, so the overall shaft length should remain the same.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:15 AM
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Well my curiosity got the better of me! There was a write-up, though the pictures were lost due to the Photobucket BS going on, on Pirate4x4 about a 96 Rodeo D44 being a "direct bolt-in" for a YJ. Apparently the spring perch width is near perfect to just drop in place and the pinion angle is also about ideal for a lifted YJ.

I was planning on going to the local Pick-A-Part anyways for some odds and ends (D44 brackets, maybe some spare shafts, etc.) and stumbled across a higher mileage 1996 Rodeo (Oct 96 build date) that was 100% intact.

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After giving the Rodeo a once over and verifying the WMS-WMS width and pricing, I grabbed some tools off my cart and got the axle out without an issue. I certainly appreciate AZ weather - the Rodeo, with 275k miles, came apart with ease! $60 later and I had it loaded up on the back of my trailer (I also found a few Dana 44 spring plates, Chevy rear axle cradles and spring plates, and some misc stuff).

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There is perhaps some confusion on the various 355/Chevy forums and other places. They report that 96-97 axles have 2 different WMS-WMS widths based on whether or not the Rodeo had factory flares. Apparently, the rumor is that non-factory flared Rodeo's had a ~58" WMS width and that Rodeos with factory flares had a ~60.5" WMS width. Well, this 96 did not have flares but does have a 60.5" WMS-WMS width. Two other Rodeos of the same era had matching 60.5" widths, even a 2WD/4-CYL with 4.56 gears and drum brakes. If you're interested in the swap, bring a tape measure to verify but I don't believe that flare/no-flares are a good way to determine WMS width.

I took some preliminary measurements and the spring perches indeed appear to directly match the YJ or are at least within 1/4" (I'll double check when I get an extra set of hands to help with a straight edge). If I can figure out an easy way to adapt the e-brake cables, or convert the YJ cables to fit, this should be a VERY easy install and will match the 60.5" WMS-WMS width of the Waggy 44. Recall that the Super 44 I picked up from the later model Rodeo D44 is 63" WMS-WMS width.

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My eBay score arrived today as well. What you see here ladies and gentlemen is a pair of Unicorns. Mythical creatures that are said to exist in junkyards with the commonality of small block Chevy's - a matched set of D44 flat top knuckles and small-bearing spindles. Truth is, that may have been true at one time, but these are HARD to find and thanks to places like eBay, they're getting top dollar for them.

Fortunately, my seller listed these by year "1975 K10 knuckles" and didn't really understand what he had. A quick call to the seller's junkyard confirmed they were original 1975 flattop D44 knuckles and had matching small-bearing spindles. I asked if he'd combine shipping and include the spindles with the knuckles and he agreed (again, probably not knowing what they were)... yippee!!

They had some surface rust but are in good shape. I took a wire brush to the knuckles and sprayed with some rust-converting primer. The passenger side knuckle is going to be sent off to be milled and drilled for a high-steer arm. Although I intend to keep the Jeep SUA, the knuckle and high-steer arm will allow me to run crossover steering using factory GM 1-ton standard sized parts. I intend to use the factory Jeep FSJ tie rod and end links as they are much larger than the YJ's and are on top of the knuckle already. A crossover drag link should never get damaged and should keep any handling woes at bay.

The spindles are nice to have in case I decide to keep the Ford 8.8 after all, as these will allow me to run Ford 5x5.5" rotors/hubs in the front. I may (a big may here) keep the Ford 8.8 through late-spring/early-summer and run the Waggy 44 as a 5x5.5" until I can fab up some e-brake parts and run the Isuzu D44 (and of course rebuild the D44 while I'm at it). I know it's an extra step and would "cost" me about $200 in rotors and misc parts, but I suspect that I'll quickly be able to recoup that money since I got the spindles for next to nothing cost wise. I haven't decided, I just don't want to have the Jeep down for too long during prime wheeling season in the desert
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Old 12-20-2017, 01:00 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by pc1p View Post
It's a low pinion setup, though not as low as the later D30's used in the TJs.

Regardless, it should work just fine with your CV shaft as I don't believe the driveshaft length should change much. From all my research and from visual checks (though no formal measurements yet), even though it's a LP, the diff is slightly larger and longer, so the overall shaft length should remain the same.

It's not so much shaft length im concerned about i was planning on having the shaft cut down if i did a swap to correct for it anyways.

My main concern was pinion angle to point it directly at the t-case yoke because it cant be shimmed because of caster. It's not like i would be driving down the highway anymore with the driveshaft spinning because of the hubs. I guess it would be ok operating out of it's working angle offroad since it's mostly low speed stuff. I kinda regret buying the CV shaft now though.

Uhhg i spent to much money on the current setup i should just stick with it and forget about swapping axles and changing everything again for 35's i just bought a brand new set of 33's
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Old 12-20-2017, 03:36 PM
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It's not so much shaft length im concerned about i was planning on having the shaft cut down if i did a swap to correct for it anyways.

My main concern was pinion angle to point it directly at the t-case yoke because it cant be shimmed because of caster. It's not like i would be driving down the highway anymore with the driveshaft spinning because of the hubs. I guess it would be ok operating out of it's working angle offroad since it's mostly low speed stuff. I kinda regret buying the CV shaft now though.

Uhhg i spent to much money on the current setup i should just stick with it and forget about swapping axles and changing everything again for 35's i just bought a brand new set of 33's
Ahh, got ya! Yeah that's exactly why I didn't bother with a front CV driveshaft. It be sweet if you were setting up a full width that was being cut down, or perhaps using a full-width D60 Chevy axle and were rotating the C's to get a proper caster.

I suppose you could always have the front one cut down for use as a spare rear CV shaft?

Like you said though, the D44 (non-Rubi) has hubs and can easily be unlocked so that the front driveshaft isn't spinning...
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Old 12-20-2017, 05:57 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by pc1p View Post
Ahh, got ya! Yeah that's exactly why I didn't bother with a front CV driveshaft. It be sweet if you were setting up a full width that was being cut down, or perhaps using a full-width D60 Chevy axle and were rotating the C's to get a proper caster.

I suppose you could always have the front one cut down for use as a spare rear CV shaft?

Like you said though, the D44 (non-Rubi) has hubs and can easily be unlocked so that the front driveshaft isn't spinning...

Yeah i don't think im going to swap front axle and go 35's i would be undoing a lot of tings i got fixed over the past 2 years. I am defiantly going to swap the D35 out though and i do not want a 8.8 the Rodeo D44 swap looks nice i might try to find one of those. If i cant im going with the Toyota 8" and just going to deal with buying 6 lug rims.
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:14 AM
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If you're keeping the front D30, then the Ford 8.8 makes the most sense as it can be found with a ratio that matches the D30 and has the proper width and bolt pattern. A good alternate would be the XJ Dana 44 - I see them pop up from time to time for $350-450. They have drum brakes but have the proper width and bolt pattern.

The Rodeo rear is a great swap from what I can tell so far, but only if you're swapping the front axle too, otherwise you'll be running huge, 2-piece adapters to match the 6-lug pattern - or you'll have to carry two spares - or you'll have to get custom rear shafts and modify the brakes to accept 5-lug axles.
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Old 12-21-2017, 12:23 PM
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In case you were wondering what the '98 D44 looks like all cleaned up...

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I haven't decided what direction I'm headed and probably won't make a decision this week. With the holidays coming, I don't think I'll have the mental capacity to make a honest decision, but it will have to be soon thereafter as I'll need to start gathering parts.

I have a few options as I see it and need to weigh the pros/cons. Here's what I'm up against deciding on...

Option 1:
Keep the 8.8, match the Waggy D44 to a 5-lug pattern, run 5x4.5 to 5x5.5 adapters on the rear in the short term, with the long-term goal to run an Ultimate 88 setup and perhaps swap in an ARB/E-Locker.

Pros: Most economical option (already has targeted gear ratio and TrueTrac), least amount of down-time for fab-work, can easily match tire carrier to pattern, already have a set of 15x10 wheels that will work
Cons: Long-term cost is about the same with U88 kit and added ARB, U88 kit requires custom parts which may make replacements more costly and/or trail repairs more complicated

Option 2:
Run the '98 Rodeo D44 @ 63" WMS-WMS width, keep everything cool-looking 6-lug and keep the Waggy D44 "all Jeep".

Pros: Stronger than F8.8 and near D60 semifloat strength in current configuration (8.9" D44 has a MOT of ~5350, where the D60 has a MOT of ~5500 ft lbs), no c-clips to deal with or replace, strong housing and tubes, big vented brakes, better pinion angle than 8.8, would be a good rear option to match with a cut down D44HP front end (not that I'm really going that direction with the YJ, but my future, future plans may have a FSJ in them ), 1.51" axle shafts that are easy to find in the local Pick-A-Part junkyards.
Cons: WMS width is about 2.5" wider overall than the Waggy D44 (so possible tracking issue maybe?), requires a special pinion bearing (easy to find but have to piecemeal rebuild kit which has an added expense).

Option 3:
Run the '96 Rodeo D44 @ 60.5" WMS-WMS width, also keeps everything cool-looking 6-lug.

Pros: Near perfect WMS-width, basically "bolt in" application with the exception of having to modify e-brake cables, no c-clips, big vented brakes, better pinion angle than 8.8, equal length 1.51" axle shafts, takes standard D44 wheel bearings, seals, and carrier/pinion bearings.
Cons: Not as strong as F8.8 or '98 Rodeo D44 in stock form.
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Old 12-21-2017, 12:59 PM   #22
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@agalloch07

If you're keeping the front D30, then the Ford 8.8 makes the most sense as it can be found with a ratio that matches the D30 and has the proper width and bolt pattern. A good alternate would be the XJ Dana 44 - I see them pop up from time to time for $350-450. They have drum brakes but have the proper width and bolt pattern.

The Rodeo rear is a great swap from what I can tell so far, but only if you're swapping the front axle too, otherwise you'll be running huge, 2-piece adapters to match the 6-lug pattern - or you'll have to carry two spares - or you'll have to get custom rear shafts and modify the brakes to accept 5-lug axles.

I am just not a fan of the 8.8 i detest it almost as much as the D35 lol. I wouldn't mind swapping in alloy axle shafts since i would probably do it anyways. This is the only thing holding me back from the Toyota 8" swap no one makes 5 lug shafts if they did i would have went to the junk yard and grabbed one and started grinding all of the brackets off and welding new ones on.

I have called Moser and Dutchman Motorsports and they said that they could probably make shafts for the yota 8" but didn't know for sure because they would need measurements and i don't have any. They make D44 shafts so getting alloy 5 lugs would be no problem.

What is the pinion offset on the Rodeo D44? Are the axle tube lengths the same on both sides or is it offset? With alloy axles i probably wouldn't really need a spare since i have learned to be easy on the throttle and have never snapped a D35 shaft. But if i did keep a spare it's nice having both sides the same length so you only need 1 like the yota 8" shafts.
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Old 12-21-2017, 01:25 PM
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This is the only thing holding me back from the Toyota 8" swap no one makes 5 lug shafts if they did i would have went to the junkyard and grabbed one and started grinding all of the brackets off and welding new ones on.
Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but didn't 2WD Taco's come with 5-lug shafts? It's been awhile since I played with Yota axles, but I could swear...

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Originally Posted by agalloch07 View Post
What is the pinion offset on the Rodeo D44? Are the axle tube lengths the same on both sides or is it offset? With alloy axles i probably wouldn't really need a spare since i have learned to be easy on the throttle and have never snapped a D35 shaft. But if i did keep a spare it's nice having both sides the same length so you only need 1 like the yota 8" shafts.
On the 96-97 Rodeo, the pinion yoke appears to be roughly 1.5-2" from center (basically the radius of the pinion diameter). On the 88+ Rodeo D44, it's slightly less, looking to be about 1-1.5" offset. Both axles have equal length axleshafts though, which is a big advantage like you said in that you can get away with carrying a single shaft as the backing plates are symmetrical...
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Old 12-21-2017, 05:54 PM   #24
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Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but didn't 2WD Taco's come with 5-lug shafts? It's been awhile since I played with Yota axles, but I could swear...



On the 96-97 Rodeo, the pinion yoke appears to be roughly 1.5-2" from center (basically the radius of the pinion diameter). On the 88+ Rodeo D44, it's slightly less, looking to be about 1-1.5" offset. Both axles have equal length axleshafts though, which is a big advantage like you said in that you can get away with carrying a single shaft as the backing plates are symmetrical...

Yeah Toyota 2wd V6 non pre-runner trucks are supposed to have come in 5 lug pattern but they are as rare and so far i have found none for sale. There are a few listed on car-part.com called and they said it was a old listing and they dont have any. I have ebay auto emailing me whenever new axle shafts are listed and so far they have all been 6 lug lol. They are out there though...

Good news on the Rodeo axles sounds like a good axle to look for so i will add that to my list.
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:35 PM
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Cleaning up the '96 axle...
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It wasn't rusty due to being coated in a thick layer of dirt and gear lube (thanks to a leaking ABS sensor o-ring) and maybe a leaking wheel seal. This one won't need to go to the sandblasters as there is no need to cut off any brackets or weld on new perches.
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For those who need to degrease something nasty - this is the ONLY stuff that has worked for me. Super Clean is caustic-based (oven cleaner basically) and strips the grease right off. This axle was soaked in 3 cans of engine degreaser, power washed twice, scraped and brushed clean, engine degreased again, degreased with "gel degreaser", and hosed off...

Half a can of this stuff and the axle was literally "squeaky clean"!
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The ABS sensor was cracked externally and internally, and was quite a PITA to get out of the axle. If you ever want to know what the inside of an ABS sensor looks like, well here you go
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ABS hole measures 0.808" at the edge and 0.798" at the base. Time to find a freeze plug!
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Old 01-01-2018, 03:07 PM   #26
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X2 on the superclean!... do yourself a huge favor tho.... go get a weed sprayer and buy your superclean in the 1-2 gallon jugs..... you save sooooo much money vs cans.....
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Old 01-02-2018, 08:42 AM
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X2 on the superclean!... do yourself a huge favor tho.... go get a weed sprayer and buy your superclean in the 1-2 gallon jugs..... you save sooooo much money vs cans.....
I've used their foaming cleaner before and it worked really well, and I also had a standard gallon of cleaner that cleans at least 4x better than Simple Green. That being said, this stuff in the can (bought 2 cans for $6.99 as it was buy-one, get-one free!) was better than all of them by a large margin. I'll still use the regular concentrate on regular stuff, I just need to get to a store that carries the gallon refills again (AutoZone used to carry it, now only the smaller bottles). Now that I'm thinking of it, there are a few gallon jugs that I need to stock up on - acetone, MPro-7, WD-40 and a handful of others. I like to start the new year well stocked
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:08 AM
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Well the holidays are over and it's back to the daily grind. It also means that there has been a decision made regarding my build. Unless some compelling information or reason comes up that makes me have to choose another plan, I've decided to go with Option 3 below, and keep the Waggy 44 6-lug and install the '96 Rodeo rear.

Why you ask? Well here's how I rationalized and justified...
1) Did I mention I really like 6-lug axles? I don't know why but it may be what attacted me to Toyota in the first place! I also always like the look of GM trucks with 6-lugs.

2) While the TrueTrac works well, my longer-term goal was always a selectable locker. During my F8.8 install, I kept and rebuilt the factory Track-Loc with the anticipation of a future upgrade anyways. However, when I noticed the damage to the spider gears and considered it a potential source of the pulsing vibration issue I was having, I installed the TrueTrac. It was a short-term play from the get go. Since I'd be upgrading the 8.8 rear locker anyway, I not "saving" anything substantial ($$-wise) by staying with the 8.8. Had I installed an ARB/Eaton instead of the TrueTrac, I may be singing a different tune...

3) If keeping the 8.8, I'd have to convert the front to a 5x5.5" pattern and would have to either use wheel adapters in the rear, run an Ultimate 88 kit that is dual-drilled, or just use beefy shafts that are dual drilled but still use the factory c-clips. I'm not a huge fan of wheel spacers, especially 1.25" thick (smallest I could find for a 5-lug to 5-lug conversion). The more I thought about it, the more I prefer using factory shafts as well.

4) Overall strength is a non-issue IMO here, as I'm keeping the rig SUA and will run 35" tires. While important, strength is not the ultimate decision-swaying factor here as it is relatively comparable between the two. People tend to argue about absolutes. As a matter of fact, in the distance, if you listen really close, I'm sure you can hear someone talking about how much better the 40S&W is vs the 9mm based on "stopping power".

Sure, on paper the F8.8 is "stronger" than the D44 rear based on MOT calculations and tests done by Warn a number of years ago. Truth be told, I have never been able to find the results of the test. I think this is an important missing link that gets overlooked a lot. People post numbers and some even allege that the F8.8 maxed out the machine used for testing. The most common figure is a 6400 lb breaking strength was given, as this maxed out Warn's testing equipment. Well I watched a number of videos of ARB checking rear differentials up to 6500+ pounds and axle shafts were ripping apart or cases exploding! I mean if Warn is doing these types of tests, and the F8.8 maxed out the system, are they or were they not able to check a D50, D60, 14B, etc? Seems like if Warn did indeed do this testing, that they'd at least want to check and see how the F8.8 compared to other larger axles. I'd imagine they'd also publish those results... somewhere!

Check out the ARB video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyzyAVPTM8c

So with that in mind and ignoring the "absolutes", I feel that the D44 rear is plenty strong for my needs. It also has no c-clips, thick tubes, 1.51" thick axle shafts and massive rotors. I have considered running a "Jana 54" or "K4" kit, which would utilize either a D50 gearset or the larger JK Dana 44 (non-Rubicon) gearset, which is 8.9" diameter and uses the larger pinion shaft (same D60-sized pinion as the 1998 Rodeo uses). This is allegedly good for 44% more R&P strength, which in theory, would put it above the F8.8 in terms of theoretical/calculated strength. A set of aftermarket axle shafts would able to be utilized as this would still allow use of the factory axle shafts as spares. I would also have 2 spares, since both axle shafts are of equal length and symmetrical.

5) Not that it matters a whole lot, but the WMS-WMS width is better IMO. At 60.5", the width of the '96 Rodeo axle will nearly perfectly match the Waggy front. The F8.8 is narrow, though not really an issue. The '98 Rodeo rear is 63" wide and probably not a huge concern either, but I have FSJ plans and will tuck this away for a future project (esp now that I have some 6-lug rollers!)

6) I will gain my lost lift height back in the rear that I originally lost due to the F8.8's tube thickness. This should level the YJ out nicely (the rear was always a bit low, even with a 1" lift boomerang shackles and standard 4" shackles in the front). Again, not a huge issue or point to be made, but it was something I thought of and like WMS-width, it becomes cumulative when comparing the options.

Build plans to come - stay tuned!
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Old 01-02-2018, 06:29 PM
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I had a few meetings go short today and thus got to enjoy a quick hour lunch break!

Found the cup-style freeze plug that works for the ABS hole. It's Dorman PN: 555-013
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The factory brake hose mount seemed useful, but in the wrong spot...
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A quick hit with the 4" angle grinder and it came right off. The only issue was the 45º mounting style.
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I hammered the notch down, welded it up and ground it smooth. I then cut a thin strip of 3/16" steel and welded it to the base to act as an anti-rotation tab.
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The factory brake caliper hoses use a metric thread connector. However, the brake line appears to be 3/16" (as measured by my digital calipers). I bought some new hard line (a 30" and a 60" section), cut off the short ends, bent them to fit, and finished it off with the brake hose fittings I swiped from the factory hard brake lines.
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Out of curiosity, I also measured the factory pinion angle. It seems to be just about 8.5º, which should be about perfect for my conversion back to a non-CV shaft!
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:44 AM   #30
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I had a few meetings go short today and thus got to enjoy a quick hour lunch break!

Found the cup-style freeze plug that works for the ABS hole. It's Dorman PN: 555-013
Attachment 3872097

...
That's the same plug that fits the 8.8's ABS hole.
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