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Old 12-21-2017, 01:04 PM
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Bad habits shifting without using clutch

OK, I maybe developed bad shifting habits from earlier vehicles like a 1956 GMC 1/2 ton in high school in 1970 and later a 1974 TR4 triumph sports car and 1968 chevy 1/2 ton all with manuals transmissions. Last standard shift was a 1993 1 ton Ford dually 5 speed and drove it for 10 years.
So now to update, I've really enjoyed driving this newly acquired 1990 YJ 2.5L for the past 6 months with no problems.
I sometimes find that I will throw it out of gear without using the clutch when slowing down or coming to a red light. Also sometimes will up shift or even down shift without using the clutch. Theres no problems using the clutch and don't grind gears unless I get lazy with my shift.
I am beginning to teach my 20 something son how to drive a standard, but not wanting him to learn from my old habits. Not sure how advisable it is to

manipulate the foot feed and motor speed to operate a stick shift without the clutch, but never had any problems shifting like this. Looking for possible info on good or bad shifting habits.

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Old 12-21-2017, 02:57 PM   #2
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That kind of shifting is fine for heavy trucks ( Class a driver for many years ) but not for our transmissions that have synchros.

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Old 12-21-2017, 04:47 PM   #3
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Unfortunately you'll be pretty much on your own figuring this out... I will tell you it's a bad idea as well as several others... However there will be several people also to tell you there's nothing wrong with it and that they've done it for years with no problem... you won't get a consensus so use your own best judgement...
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Old 12-21-2017, 05:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gottagofast View Post
Unfortunately you'll be pretty much on your own figuring this out... I will tell you it's a bad idea as well as several others... However there will be several people also to tell you there's nothing wrong with it and that they've done it for years with no problem... you won't get a consensus so use your own best judgement...


What he said. If 10 people comment you will have 10 different opinions.
I don’t think there is a problem as long as you are matching RPMs and not the synchros doing it.


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Old 12-21-2017, 07:58 PM   #5
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What he said. If 10 people comment you will have 10 different opinions.
I don’t think there is a problem as long as you are matching RPMs and not the synchros doing it.


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We have a winner ! Shifting with out the clutch and not matching RPM will wear out synchros in a hurry . Been Driving truck for 60 + years. Learned in a 48 IHC KB-5 , no synchroes . Every thing from a 1/2 ton to a over the road Pete. Double clutching was a learning skill with the old non synchromesh trannies.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:19 PM   #6
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We have a winner ! Shifting with out the clutch and not matching RPM will wear out synchros in a hurry . Been Driving truck for 60 + years. Learned in a 48 IHC KB-5 , no synchroes . Every thing from a 1/2 ton to a over the road Pete. Double clutching was a learning skill with the old non synchromesh trannies.
I had to learn how to shift w/o a clutch in a hurry when the clutch cable on my Triumph motorcycle broke (back in the early 60s).
I'd heard about it but never tried. Once I figured out how, I think it can be done on any standard shift transmission, with or without syncros.
Simply find the "sweet spot" where there is neither + or - pressure on the gears. I think it's a learned skill that many drivers can learn. Of course, unlike many millennials, you have to know how to drive a standard shift first.

I don't know if my son can shift w/o the clutch. I expect he can, but don't know. If he cant' I'll tell him how and let him learn on his own vehicle.

Some folks can't find their behinds with both hands. I wouldn't bother to attempt to teach them how to shift w/o a clutch.
If your son is mechanically inclined, learning how to shift w/o the pedal should be easy for him.
First teach him how to use the clutch properly and if he wants to learn how to skip the pedal, offer to teach him. Give him some time to get some experience, then after a year or so, just casually mention it. See what he says. I think it's a good thing to know in case the internal slave/throwout bearing goes out on our heaps.

Good luck, L.M.
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Old 12-21-2017, 10:38 PM   #7
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Funny, last weekend I was teaching my 16 Y.O. daughter how to drive a stick using my Jeep, I showed her how to shift without a clutch just in case she needed to after telling her I drove a VW from Santa Barbara, CA to Orange County with a broken clutch cable. Coast out of gear to a red light, shut it off, put it in gear, start it up with it in gear when the light turns green and shift to second, etc. without the clutch...... but ONLY do it if you have to, otherwise, use the clutch at all times. I did it with my 74' Harley with a broken clutch cable that had elec. start, but I don't think my 67' kick start Triumph would work so well unless I push started it and jammed it in first or second...... which I wouldn't want to do.
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Old 12-23-2017, 07:40 PM   #8
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just remember the names of the guys who are telling you to go ahead and shift without using the clutch..these will be the same people that will have started threads later asking why there is a grinding noise that's coming from their transmissions

to do something like shifting without the clutch rarely isn't likely to do immediate catastrophic damage, but to do it intentionally and often is just asking for trouble
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:01 PM   #9
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Gottagofast said "You won't get a consensus".
RawhideClab said "If 10 people comment, you will have 10 different answers".

I always use my clutch because
1- start out in 1st gear
2- second gear syncros are worn and I have to shift slowly and carefully to not grind.
3- it's too much trouble to try to remember to shift without a clutch when you're soo used to shifting with a clutch.
4- My head is usually so full of other things that even if I wanted to shift w/o a clutch, I'd probably forget to, and still use the clutch out of habit.

Shifting w/o a clutch is a handy skill to have, but as cracked states, probably not a good thing to do all the time.

Good Luck, L.M.
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HEI distributor with computer and all related relays and wiring removed.
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Old 12-24-2017, 07:43 AM   #10
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Motorcycle transmissions, and non-synchronized transmissions like in big trucks are different. They engage with a different method.

Synchronized transmissions depend on brass rings slowing down the gear speed so it will match the shaft speed. This takes a moment in normal use. Shifting without the clutch can be done perfectly. But, how many are going to do a few hundred shifts a day......perfectly? Every time you don't exactly match speeds, you round off the edges of the steel synchronizer teeth on the gear and synchronizer. These are not the big teeth you think of on the gear, but the smaller ones on the side of the gear that actually transmit power to the gear. Over time these can be damaged enough that they won't stay engaged and pop out. Usually when you let off the gas and get back on. You may start to get occasional grinding, but that is usually because of having worn out the brass rings intended to match speeds.....as the clutch is released and then engaged. Once the first time it pops out, or starts to grind, they usually go downhill fast.
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Old 12-24-2017, 11:42 AM   #11
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OPs original question was;
"I am beginning to teach my 20 something son how to drive a standard, but not wanting him to learn from my old habits. Not sure how advisable it is to manipulate the foot feed and motor speed to operate a stick shift without the clutch".

If he were my son I'd teach him the proper use of a clutch and wait to see how he does. If he picked it up quickly and was interested, then I'd show him how to match engine and drivetrain speeds to shift w/o a clutch.
We crawl before we walk, we walk before we run. Don't stuff his head full of stuff too quickly. When I was a kid, I wanted a .410 to go after birds. My dad handed me a 12G. and said "Be a man". You can guess how that worked out. Some of us grow up too quickly.

Although it's a handy skill to have, shifting w/o a clutch isn't something that I recommend as a regular practice.

Merry Christmas, L.M.
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.................................................. ........................
1987 YJ-4.2L-Standard Shift- Re-manufactured Carter Carb-2" body Lift-31X10.5X15 BFG KOs-190K Miles No back seat.
HEI distributor with computer and all related relays and wiring removed.
12K Badlands winch with dual batteries.
Warn front bumper. Matching imitation Warn bumper on the rear.
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Old 12-24-2017, 03:34 PM   #12
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Lots and lots of years ago I has a 75 chevy stepside with 38's and 3.08 gears... horrible combination but hey...
It had an np203 transfer case which was converted to part time 4x4 so it had 4lo 2lo n 2hi and 4hi

I would drive it around town in 2lo and shift it on the fly to 2hi when I got on the highway.....
Sooo yeah I have the ability but no way I'd teach a kid to float gears until said kid took over his or her own maintenance.....
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Old 12-24-2017, 04:23 PM
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Thanks for all the info on this No clutch business and kinda knew the right way to handle it. My son is much more of a "Dudley Do Right" type of guy than I ever thought about being. I always had to to learn via my mistakes, and the son has started listening to my advice.

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