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Old 06-26-2018, 03:40 PM
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Driver Seat Rust Spot

So I'm in the process of finding the various rust spots on my YJ and I found this rather aggressive spot right under the rear driver's seat bolt.
Thoughts on how to repair this? I wire brushed all the loose rust off and sprayed rust reformer on it. I was considering packing the cavern with Bondo and fiber glass patch material. I'm hoping for a non-welding solution since I have neither a welder nor the knowledge on how to weld.

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Old 06-26-2018, 04:08 PM   #2
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Most YJ's bust out right there because of the leverage on the rear seat mount. Mines cracked pretty bad to and i haven't fixed it yet i just jammed a thick piece of sheet metal under it to help support it until i fix it properly.

I am very meticulous about what i do to my jeep and i have thought about how i am going to fix it for a long time. And i have come up with this....

Cut the section of cracked metal out and try to make it as square as possible so the patch panel fits in easier.

There is a metal plate about 2" wide that runs across the bottom floor support with a nut welded onto it that also cracks i can see yours is cracked in the pic. Get a new piece of metal the same thickness and remake the piece.

Tack weld the new support in with the nut on it

Fit a new patch panel in with a hole drilled in it for the nut plate so you can bolt the seat bracket too it.

At this point it looks exactly like it did from the factory but that is not good enough it WILL bust out again. And this is how i am going to fix mine.

Cut out thick sheet metal on the floor to support to bridge the floor support from underneath. I cant remember what gauge sheet metal i bought but it's some thick stuff i am wanting to say 16 gauge but it may have been 14. And then use 3M body panel adhesive and glue it over the top of the floor pan directly over the floor supports under the tub. This will bridge it and distribute body weight better and it should never crack again.

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Old 06-26-2018, 08:32 PM
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Clever idea. I'll have to swing by the hardware store and see what they have for sheet metal.
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Old 06-27-2018, 12:25 AM   #4
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I think gluing the reinforcement plates down instead of welding them is a better idea because it will keep moisture out from between the metal and causing rot. It also helps the metal lay flatter because sheet metal tends to warp when you weld it. I have not tried it yet but i think gluing the reinforcements to the floor by putting a long glob down the center and sticking it to the floor like sticking a heat sink to a CPU will keep air pockets out and be very strong. And if you roll bedliner in like i plan to it the repair should be almost invisible.

Not sure how i am going to hold it down and get it to stay as flat as possible till it dries, i guess i will just set a bunch of weight on it like ammo cans or something.
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:29 AM   #5
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If you fix it that way, (sandwich) plates, use JB Weld for the plates and rivets. Will not leak and is as strong as welds.
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Old 06-27-2018, 02:12 PM   #6
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Sense you don't want to do welding, which I can understand, that's a whole thing in and of itself. I would concur with Manny, Adhesive and Rivets are the way to go. For more information of how to make repairs in sheet metal like this, try looking into how they repair sheet metal on aircraft, welding is never an option.


It can be done with a minimum of tools, and will be extremely strong, if you use the correct number of rivets then you can even replace the adhesive with a sealant just to keep the water out. If you need a nut attached to the sheet metal, you can look up rivnuts, or even nut plates, nut plates being the stronger of the two. Also, something called clecos, they are temporary rivets used during the building of the patches to make sure everything stays lined up as you drill and rivet everything together.


I hope some of this helps point you in the right direction, if you need more ideas I'm sure you'll get them here plenty. Also, where is Washington are you?
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Old 06-27-2018, 05:25 PM
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So went to home depot and picked up some 16 gage steel, rivets, and some JB Weld.
They didn't have any rivnuts or nut plates, so I picked up some tee nuts. I'll have to layer the steel around the tee nuts to prevent the cracking from occuring again.

Next step is to cut out the damaged section I guess
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Old 06-27-2018, 05:27 PM
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Apparently I cannot edit my previous post so double posting I go.
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Originally Posted by 89JeeperYJ View Post
Also, where is Washington are you?
I was on the Kitsap peninsula in the Bremerton area, however I recently moved to Connecticut in December.
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:09 PM   #9
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If you don't want to or aren't able to weld the replacement patch, your local autobody supply store will have an epoxy adhesive that's designed to bond metal to metal.
The JB Weld that MannyN recommends might work well. The 3M or Lord Fuser that you can buy is designed for metal to metal bonding and some new vehicle manufacturers use it in place of welding.
The JB Weld will be a lot cheaper for a small project. Seal the edges well to prevent water intrusion and ultimate rust. I'd prime, paint and undercoat the underside and prime & paint the inside.

Post some pics of your progress while doing the job.

Good Luck, L.M.
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:51 PM   #10
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JB Weld is hard and somewhat brittle if i remember right i doubt it would hold for very long and when it fails it will trap moisture between the metal and cause rust.

If you want the repair done right weld in a patch then glue the reinforcement plate to the top. It will be strong and will never rust. Unfortunately the 3M panel adhesive is expensive stuff and you need a gun to apply it. I used POR15 patch to clue a metal plate to sheet metal and it seems to work well but it is expensive too. I think 3M Panel adhesive is better way to glue metal together.
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Old 06-28-2018, 12:16 AM   #11
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I'll chime-in on the other side of the conversation & say welding is your best bet- IF there's anyway possible you can do that.
The rivets most people have access to are pretty weak in comparison to the aircraft grade rivets (I hear this defense of rivets quite a bit, and while i agree, it doesn't take into account most people have never seen & do not have access to aircraft grade rivets. I mean they used to use red-hot rivets to construct buildings. Sure they're strong but out of the question for typical shade-tree mechanics.) (Unless you buy the special tool & buy the high grade aircraft rivets which aren't cheap at all.)
Plus jeeps are welded together from the factory & have survived MANY years with this process.
Me personally,
Id get a donor/replacement panel, cut out the old, weld in the new & weld on reinforcing plates as agalloch07 suggests, then seal it.
It'll last another 20yrs or more imo.
But if welding is flat-out not an option at all, then do what you have to do.
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:19 AM   #12
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ZombiePopper and agalloch07 are absolutely correct. Welding is the preferred method of replacing panels.
If I didn't have a welder then I'd use the 3M panel bonder.
Compare the cost of having the replacement panel welded in by a body shop and the cost of a tube of 3M panel bond. The panel bond might be cheaper if the store that sells you the panel bond will loan you their demo gun. If they don't have or won't loan a demo gun, then welding at a shop might be cheaper.

If neither of the above options will work for you then you gotta do what you gotta do.
If you can't afford to do a proper repair, then you might be in over your head. That said, the floor pan isn't a structural panel and riveting might make a temporary repair until you can afford to get the job done properly. Just be certain to seal everything well to prevent any water intrusion.

Packing the cavern with Bondo or fiberglass is guaranteed to fail soon, will hold water and exacerbate the rusting.

Good Luck, L.M.
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.................................................. ........................
1987 YJ-4.2L-Standard Shift- Re-manufactured Carter Carb-2" body Lift-31X10.5X15 BFG KOs-190K Miles No back seat.
HEI distributor with computer and all related relays and wiring removed.
12K Badlands winch with dual batteries.
Warn front bumper. Matching imitation Warn bumper on the rear.
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Old 06-28-2018, 02:13 PM   #13
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So to touch on a couple of points before you jump into doing the sheet metal repair like I mentioned above. I was trying to point you towards doing a little research into how aircraft repairs are done, cause explaining the entire repair process is much longer than that of a welded patch. I will agree that a welded patch may be the better option here, depending on your skill set, sense welding can be very forgiving, and once the repair is done, it can be made to look as though no damage ever existed.


So first, JB Weld probable isn't your best choice of adhesives, it is rather brittle and may end up cracking under stress, I've never seen the 3M panel bonder that others are referring to, but it sound like it would work well. 3M makes some excellent products.


Second, I'm not sure how a tee nut will work in this situation, Rivnuts are usually available in the hardware section at most ACE's, not sure about other hardware stores, that being said they usually have limited sizes, and aren't the best option for anything requiring a lot of torque. Like a seat bolt. Nut Plates would have to be procured online most likely, and would actually be a good option even if you did decided to weld a new sheet that didn't already have a nut attached. Nut plates are generally riveted in place.


So I'm going to attach a few pictures of what a repair like this might look like, none of them will be exact and without drawling something you'll have to use you imagination, so to speak.








If you do still decided to make this repair without welding, it will probably take more research and time and patience that a welded repair. My concept of easy may have been skewed due to my occupation, so if after this disruption you feel its actually rather hard then I do apologize if I mislead you.


Only asked where, to see if I was close enough to have been able to help out if you were close enough. But that wouldn't have worked even if you were still in Washington.
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Old 06-28-2018, 02:20 PM   #14
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The following seemed to have been left out of my above post;


For the most part the pictures are kind of self explanatory. But, here are a few points that will help.


In the rivet spacing they refer to the distance as 3D, 4D, and 6D, the "D" is the diameter of the rivet used, them multiplied by 3,4 or 6 depending on use. So if you were using 1/8 rivets and a 4D spacing, then the rivets would be 1/2" apart center to center. With the standard store bought rivets, I would recommend 4D spacing with a double row, like what is pictured. I would think 1/8 to 3/16 rivets would work, as far as length is concerned, that will be determined on how thick the total layers of sheet metal are, and you may have to use a couple different lengths.


When, you cut your patch pieces and drill all your holes, you have to debur everything. If you don't the chance of cracking is really high. Sense I doubt you'll have any Clecos, those temporary rivets I mentioned, then your best bet will be to temporarily install four to eight rivets while drilling all of holes for the rivets, then drill out the temp rivets and debur the whole piece. Debur means, all drilled holes, edges, and even rounding the corners, make it so you can't cut yourself anywhere on it. Or on the portion cut out of the jeep as well, so the damaged area you removed, needs to be cleaned up, smoothed and rounded corners as well.


Before you remove your temp rivets, I would locate the hole for your nut plate at this point so as to install the nut plate before final assembly.


Prior to final assembly, prime all exposed metal and allow it to dry, then during assembly take your sealant or adhesive and apply (thin coats) it to both surfaces and rivet it all together while its still wet, this is were those clecos come in handy to line everything up prior to installing rivets.
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Old 06-28-2018, 03:12 PM   #15
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89JeeperYJ might be an airframe mechanic. What he suggests will be a bulletproof repair.
Automotive sheet metal is much more forgiving of less than optimum repairs.

OP, let us know what you end up doing. Post some pics.

Good Luck, L.M.
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.................................................. ........................
1987 YJ-4.2L-Standard Shift- Re-manufactured Carter Carb-2" body Lift-31X10.5X15 BFG KOs-190K Miles No back seat.
HEI distributor with computer and all related relays and wiring removed.
12K Badlands winch with dual batteries.
Warn front bumper. Matching imitation Warn bumper on the rear.
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Old 06-29-2018, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agalloch07 View Post
JB Weld is hard and somewhat brittle if i remember right i doubt it would hold for very long and when it fails it will trap moisture between the metal and cause rust.

If you want the repair done right weld in a patch then glue the reinforcement plate to the top. It will be strong and will never rust. Unfortunately the 3M panel adhesive is expensive stuff and you need a gun to apply it. I used POR15 patch to clue a metal plate to sheet metal and it seems to work well but it is expensive too. I think 3M Panel adhesive is better way to glue metal together.
Looks like $100 for the entire 3M kit. Have you heard anything on Eastwood Panel Adhesive? I read a hot rodding article recommending it for this purpose. It's about $85 for the equivalent size as the 3M product.

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Originally Posted by ZombiePopper View Post
I'll chime-in on the other side of the conversation & say welding is your best bet- IF there's anyway possible you can do that.
The rivets most people have access to are pretty weak in comparison to the aircraft grade rivets (I hear this defense of rivets quite a bit, and while i agree, it doesn't take into account most people have never seen & do not have access to aircraft grade rivets. I mean they used to use red-hot rivets to construct buildings. Sure they're strong but out of the question for typical shade-tree mechanics.) (Unless you buy the special tool & buy the high grade aircraft rivets which aren't cheap at all.)
The problem with welding for me is that I do not know how to weld with any of the styles nor do I own a welder.
I picked up steel rivets instead of aluminum so with an appropriate adhesive they should hold up.
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Originally Posted by Luckymac View Post
If you can't afford to do a proper repair, then you might be in over your head. That said, the floor pan isn't a structural panel and riveting might make a temporary repair until you can afford to get the job done properly. Just be certain to seal everything well to prevent any water intrusion.
I'll call around tomorrow and see what the costs would be for a body shop to repair it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 89JeeperYJ View Post

Second, I'm not sure how a tee nut will work in this situation, Rivnuts are usually available in the hardware section at most ACE's, not sure about other hardware stores, that being said they usually have limited sizes, and aren't the best option for anything requiring a lot of torque. Like a seat bolt. Nut Plates would have to be procured online most likely, and would actually be a good option even if you did decided to weld a new sheet that didn't already have a nut attached. Nut plates are generally riveted in place.
I went to several hardware stores in my area today and managed to procure a set of rivnuts and the associated gun. Thanks for the instructions, I'll check what size rivets I have as well as how much room I have for the patch to see if this will work for my repair.
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Old 07-05-2018, 12:31 AM   #17
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seat mount repair

I ordered new best top seats for my 91.when installing them I noticed both sides were fractured like the above pictures.They appeared to be stress fractures with no visible rust.I live in Baja Mx. and Pablof Racing is down the road from me so I took my Y J down there. they repaired and reinforced the floor pan. Those guys are Amazing when it comes to fabrication.
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:40 PM
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I ordered new best top seats for my 91.when installing them I noticed both sides were fractured like the above pictures.They appeared to be stress fractures with no visible rust.I live in Baja Mx. and Pablof Racing is down the road from me so I took my Y J down there. they repaired and reinforced the floor pan. Those guys are Amazing when it comes to fabrication.
Glad to hear you got yours fixed!


I got some time to work on the YJ. Cut out the damaged metal, cut a patch, installed a piece of square tubing to mount the rivnut to, and a top patch with silicon to seal it all up.
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