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Old 03-25-2019, 09:54 PM
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Track bar bushing

I am trying to change the bushings on my rear track bar for 1988 Wrangler. Everywhere I look shows MOOG part# K3175 as the correct bushing but it is too big. My track bar must not be original stock. Looks like this K3175 is about 1.56inches(38-39mm) but I need bushings to be 1.35inches(34.5mm) or thereabouts. I called MOOG directly but they said they do not list them by size. Only list them by use of location on jeep. Does anyone have any idea the correct part# for the smaller bushing? Thanks.

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Old 03-25-2019, 10:35 PM   #2
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I'm trying to remove mine completely from my 88. The theory is that track bars aren't needed on leaf spring vehicles.

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Old 03-25-2019, 11:11 PM   #3
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Agreed. Just ditch the track bar. Looks cleaner and rides a million times better without it. The logic of it never made sense
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Old 03-26-2019, 08:35 AM   #4
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Yep ditch the rear track bar....
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Old 03-26-2019, 08:48 PM
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Sounds good to me. Thats what I will do then. Just keep it off. Thanks for the input, guys..
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Old 03-26-2019, 10:26 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by crabapple View Post
Sounds good to me. Thats what I will do then. Just keep it off. Thanks for the input, guys..
Enjoy your better riding jeep. I also removed my sway bar which resulted in much better ride quality as well. Steering response hasn't really changed. I daily my heep as well.
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Old 03-27-2019, 11:38 AM   #7
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I don't off road my YJ, but I was like the others and removed the rear Track bar at some point. Drove around for a few weeks/months without it. I noticed the rear end would move around a lot while doing long sweeping corners at 50+mph hitting potholes and bridge abutments; Abrupt elevation changes at speed while corning; made me realize the manufacturer put track bars on for a reason.

I bought a new Moog rear track bar and I can tell you these YJ's drive way better with the track bar on. Cars/trucks have moved away from leaf spring only suspensions for a reason. Keep that in mind.

If you offroad a lot and aren't driving fast. Don't worry about it.
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Old 03-27-2019, 10:55 PM   #8
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Bangler I think you’re getting track bars & sway bars confused. A lot of people use a track bar as a band aid (worn out bushings, etc).
For a linked suspension in newer vehicles you NEED a track bar (think pan hard bar).
But Track bars are a hindrance to leaf sprung vehicles-our yj’s. Off-road or on- road.
Bottom line;
The track bar moves in an arc & prevents an axle from moving side-to-side.
Our axles are locked in to the leaf springs which are attached to the frame.
(Jack up the back of your Jeep & use your feet to push the axle from one side to the other- it won’t move (unless your suspension is shot obviously. Which goes back to my bandaid comment but even then it still won’t move by much at all).
Now back to the track bar forcing your leafs in an arc- this isn’t good. Leafs are designed to go up & down- nothing more.
The track forces them to move in an unnatural way- a way they are not intended to move.
(Sway bars are another matter all together though.)
But in the end Track bars are for PR (public relations), Nothing more.
But,
If having track bars gives you a warm fuzzy feeling I say more power to you my friend
Heck, hard weld the axles straight to the frame if you wish everyone can do whatever they want to their own property.
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Old 03-28-2019, 12:11 AM   #9
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DON'T mistake your own experience as the end all be all of knowlege in the world....

The track bars absolutely do serve a function, especially on a stock height yj that is driven agressively, but the rear can almost always be deleted on a lifted yj and the front most of the time....

On my yj w very soft re 4.5" springs I got MUCH better handling with no loss of flex by putting the front back on although you can find plenty of folks on the net stating that that can never happen.....
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Old 03-28-2019, 01:38 AM   #10
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Disagree.
Put 29 track bars on a yj & you can still roll it with ease.
Leaf springs are designed to go up & down. Not side to side. A track bar forces the axle in an arch. As it does this it tries to push the leaf spring side to side.
The one & only purpose (the way it is mounted) of a track bar is to center the axle.
Marketing & placebo on a leaf sprung axle.
Edit; if you mounted them around the outside like outriggers that would help
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Old 03-28-2019, 10:49 AM   #11
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I know the difference between a trackbar and a swaybar. You said it yourself
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombiePopper View Post
The track bar moves in an arc & prevents an axle from moving side-to-side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bangler View Post
I noticed the rear end would move around a lot while doing long sweeping corners at 50+mph hitting potholes and bridge abutments; Abrupt elevation changes at speed while corning; made me realize the manufacturer put track bars on for a reason.
This statement directly indicates lateral movement which is exactly what the trackbar was made for.

Now if you can imagine, not everyone lives on a grid with straight flat roads. The trackbar plays an important role in keeping that axle where it belongs. Simply ditching the rear trackbar isn't for everyone nor is it necessarily the safest thing to do.

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Originally Posted by ZombiePopper View Post
Disagree.
Put 29 track bars on a yj & you can still roll it with ease.
Leaf springs are designed to go up & down. Not side to side. A track bar forces the axle in an arch. As it does this it tries to push the leaf spring side to side.
The one & only purpose (the way it is mounted) of a track bar is to center the axle.
Marketing & placebo on a leaf sprung axle.
Edit; if you mounted them around the outside like outriggers that would help
This just makes me shake me head. Do you even know what you're saying or are you arguing for the sake of arguing?

The track bars function is to prevent lateral movement meaning: the axle can't move from side to side to side to side to side to side to side to side. Without the track bar, that's what the rear end will do.

Shit if I lived in the plains of Texas, I too would go without the track bar.
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Old 03-28-2019, 12:13 PM   #12
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That’s the thing- I’m not arguing at all. In the last few track/panhard bar posts there’s been this narrative being pushed that “track bars do wonderful things” (paraphrasing of course ).
I’m simply trying to present facts & info.
They don’t make a Jeep a corner carver, they bind the suspension, they do not prevent roll-over’s, they’re a band aid, no other leaf sprung vehicles ran them (with the exception of ford trucks iirc which is a good example for yj’s. But different time...).
I don’t feel anything at all about this topic (in fact I’ve been joking around throughout it.). Do what you like with the info (as I said from the beginning.).
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:34 PM   #13
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I have a stock jeep on 235/75/r15s and live in Los Angeles. I removed the rear track bar and don’t really know if I feel a difference or not. I think I WANT to feel a difference? But not sure.
We have off ramps and clover interchanges here. I normally drive them at the posted speed, mostly designed for semi-trucks, and feel zero difference without than I did with.

I would think that a track bar delete would be more noticeable offroad than on?

I drove a ‘79 leaf springed F250 4x4 with 6” lift for years. No factory track bars and I removed the sway bars as soon as I bought it. I had no issues.


As Gottagofast mentioned, other factors would definitely influence whether or not someone might want to keep or delete it.

Maybe keep it off and drive it a bit and let us know your opinion.
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Old 03-29-2019, 09:38 AM   #14
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Actually I notice it (my front) WAY more on road.... without, the harder I push a turn the more I have to add more steering than I should to counter lateral spring flex and any little bump in a hard turn has me working the steering wheel back and forth to keep the jeep turning smoothly.... when I put my track bar back on this went away and it now steers like it should....

What zombie and many other people fail to understand is that not all springs and not people are created equal....


My re 4.5 springs flex SIDEWAYS way easier than someone else's rough country springs....
Also a stock height jeep w a level track bar driven mostly in flat smooth pavement w rubber bushings isn't going to bind... the suspension moves up and down an inch or two and the arc of the track bar is WELL within the amount easily absorbed by rubber bushings....

Multiple times in my life I have pulled a leaf spring out or in by hand an inch to pop the center pin into it's hole when installing an axle like for example a full width chevy in a wrangler where the widths are a little off.....

If I can do that then a 4000 lb jeep pushing it a little on a corner can certainly push it's axles more than an inch laterally.... The track bar (rear in this example) comes in when something upsets the chassis during that turn, causes a momentary loss of traction.... if the track bar has been removed, at the same time as the rear of the jeep steps out a little, the axle also snaps back to centered under the jeep and allows a little bit more unrestricted outward movement of the jeep....

This doesn't make a jeep suddenly roll over by any means buy this undampened spring movement DOES make the jeep less laterally stable, more likely to spin out and more likely to flip....

MOST people who drive jeeps will never experience this because most modify them for offroad use and never drive hard through a turn on small tires.... Other folks who do will likely never understand what happened.
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Old 03-29-2019, 12:19 PM   #15
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@Gotta I agree to an extent.
I’ve read some cases on this very forum where members have driven crazy fast in corners .
Obviously I’m generalizing track bars bc every vehicle is different. Not all track bars are bad & they can work (as long as someone is willing to do the work (measurements-roll centers) & make their own & position brackets .).
But I do feel it’s important to realize once you change suspension geometry (up or down) the stock track bar is no longer effective.
But its true, even newer Ford trucks run track bars bc they run really soft bushings to improve ride quality. But a lot bushings are going poly. But then all of this discussion precludes CJ’s....
Keep in mind though- when you’re suspension is disconnected from the vehicle, as in your example, all of this & track bars are irrelevant. And have nothing to do with lateral flex.
At least I REALLY hope people don’t pull the u bolts on the springs & drive around .
But 100% agree that roll overs are down to the driver.
But it’s like I said in beginning- everyone should do what they prefer.
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Old 03-29-2019, 01:49 PM   #16
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Sometimes it's HARD to remember that other folks have different circumstances.... notice that early on I too said to ditch the rear bar....
Honestly I probably should have asked a few questions first... I think he most likely is still best served by ditching it tho
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Old 03-29-2019, 01:59 PM   #17
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Once, many years ago before I was the wise old man and picture of self control (sic) I am today, I got into a grudge match with some prick in a car who kept repeatedly passing my 4 cyl TJ on 31's without a front swaybar and slowing down..... we were on an uphill run coming into a hairpin turn and while his car could out run, out handle, and all around out drive my slow floppy jeep I was determined 'NOT THIS TIME' .... I managed to hold him off up the hill and when he lifted for the corner I gave it my best 'grand turismo' left flick right turn and left counter steer and drifted full throttle through the corner.....
After that he left me alone and I finished my 1000 mile trip thinking at the same time how cool it felt and how incredibly stupid it was.... shoulda just stopped for a sandwich and let him get on down the road....

Above story:....
Yj? No
Leaf springs? No
Removed track bar? No
Are we talking about sway bars? No

Relevant? Heck if I know but this convo reminded me of it so I shared..... lol
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Old 03-29-2019, 03:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gottagofast View Post
Actually I notice it (my front) WAY more on road.... without, the harder I push a turn the more I have to add more steering than I should to counter lateral spring flex and any little bump in a hard turn has me working the steering wheel back and forth to keep the jeep turning smoothly.... when I put my track bar back on this went away and it now steers like it should....

What zombie and many other people fail to understand is that not all springs and not people are created equal....


My re 4.5 springs flex SIDEWAYS way easier than someone else's rough country springs....
Also a stock height jeep w a level track bar driven mostly in flat smooth pavement w rubber bushings isn't going to bind... the suspension moves up and down an inch or two and the arc of the track bar is WELL within the amount easily absorbed by rubber bushings....

Multiple times in my life I have pulled a leaf spring out or in by hand an inch to pop the center pin into it's hole when installing an axle like for example a full width chevy in a wrangler where the widths are a little off.....

If I can do that then a 4000 lb jeep pushing it a little on a corner can certainly push it's axles more than an inch laterally.... The track bar (rear in this example) comes in when something upsets the chassis during that turn, causes a momentary loss of traction.... if the track bar has been removed, at the same time as the rear of the jeep steps out a little, the axle also snaps back to centered under the jeep and allows a little bit more unrestricted outward movement of the jeep....

This doesn't make a jeep suddenly roll over by any means buy this undampened spring movement DOES make the jeep less laterally stable, more likely to spin out and more likely to flip....

MOST people who drive jeeps will never experience this because most modify them for offroad use and never drive hard through a turn on small tires.... Other folks who do will likely never understand what happened.

I never really noticed any difference with my track bars off on road with superlift springs. I have not got to drive with my new RE extreme dutys but this is tad worrisome. Because with my new steering setup i am running a WJ pitman arm and it hits the track bar mount so i have no choice but to cut it off the frame. No turning back now!
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Old 03-29-2019, 06:20 PM   #19
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Meh you can always add one if you need one....
Don't sweat it tho... I drove mine without it for 8 years before putting it back on
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Old 03-31-2019, 11:03 AM   #20
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Here is another thought while deciding to leave or delete the rear track bar.

My exhaust was damaged and compressed by the track bar at some point in its life. This is the main reason that I removed mine.
I did so only after reading that most people either felt no difference, handling seemed to improve, or driving without was easily adaptable to.
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Old 04-07-2019, 11:52 AM   #21
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So all this discussion leads to another question. Are there track bar extensions out there for lifted Jeeps? I remember seeing longer sections for the anti-sway bar in the front but nothing for the rear. I simply ask because TBH I drive my Jeep like a sports car.

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Old 04-07-2019, 01:09 PM   #22
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Yes... I have a dropped ptman arm and a dropped track bar bracket in front.... they also sell adjustable length track bars...
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Old 04-07-2019, 02:43 PM   #23
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And I have an extension on my rear track bar.

*Pic is sideways...
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:58 PM   #24
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2 YJs ...0 track bars. Both were/are driven by teenagers without incident. Both drive just fine. I will say it is noticeable. They both ride smoother...a lot smoother and they are both a little loose in the corners. Seeing as how they are not meant to be race cars I prefer them off.

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