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Old 09-20-2018, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by billybobjku View Post
Looks like there maybe a few Fox ATSs available on the used parts forum!
Well, I know of at least one


-Steven

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Old 09-20-2018, 06:38 AM   #2522
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All right gang, I had a few hours today to compare my Yeti steering set-up with two steering stabilizers, the Fox ATS, and the new Steer Smarts HD-N.





This came about after having a discussion with Andy at Steer Smarts about running my Fox ATS with the Steer Smarts Griffin Attenuator. They have found that the ATS, when run on the firmer settings, can cause a pre-load situation in the attenuator. This can result in vague steering feel/feedback, or even a "darty" feeling.

I was running my ATS at the firmer setting, wanting to provide a firmer steering feel. I didn't consider my steering to be vague or darty, but if I could improve upon it, I'm in! I will say that the addition of the Yeti Steering Linkage was a huge improvement over the stock set-up. The steering was tighter, more responsive, and the Griffin removed a lot of the harness that I was seeing with the addition 35" and then 37" tires.

Here's the specs on what I run on my Jeep, which may/will be different than other set-ups, and possible yield different results. Please factor that into your decision making.

- Yeti Top Mount Drag Link w/Griffin XD Attenuator
- Yeti XD Tie Rod
- TeraFlex Tera 44R Front Axle, Geometry Corrected for 4-6" lift
- PSC Big Bore XD Steering Box
- PSC Upgraded supply side hose(No Teflon Lining)
- 37" M/T Tires

The Testing:

1) The first part of this test involved removing the Fox ATS, and driving without a steering stabilizer (SS). This gave me a baseline feel for my Yeti linkages. I used the same route for each test drive. That included various smooth to rough city streets as well as 70mph freeway driving.

Results:
- Freer feeling at the wheel
- Steering felt lighter, and would return to center after a turn
- More feedback was definitely making it's way through to the steering wheel.


2) Re-installed the ATS today, and dialed it down to the softest setting.



Results:
- Tighter steering feel
- The Jeep won't completely self center after a turn
- Feels locked down in a way that has taken some of the directness out of the steer feel


3) Installed the new HD-N from Steer Smarts. I was able to get it to line up perfectly with my tie rod. *As of note the Fox ATS was slightly off, requiring me to pull it over to mate it up to the tie rod* Torqued it all down and off I went.



Results:
- Pleasantly firm wheel, but easier to turn than with the ATS
- Very controlled/planted. You can steer it with one finger.
- Jeep self centers after a turn
- Bumpsteer, harshness over bumps, pot holes is dampened way back. Is this a Jeep?
- Feels completely dialed in!


This was a real eye opener! To say I'm surprised is an understatement. Going into this I was thinking there was no way what looks like garden variety SS would work so well, especially against my fully adjustable $400+ Fox ATS. I'm thinking I might have had a little bind with the ATS. Remember I couldn't ever get t to line up/mate perfectly to the tie rod.

Credit this to Steer Smarts matching parts, and component characteristics...similar to a suspension company matching spring rates and shock dampening to get a desired ride/performance. This is what I will run on Rubi. The HD-N got my steering set-up completely dialed in...it feels great! Looking forward to beating on it in Moab and Ouray very soon.

Is it worth it for you to throw out your current SS and get the HD-N? That's going to be up to you, and based on what components you are running. At $66, it's not a lot to pay for a component that's perfectly matched to your Yeti/Griffin linkage, and will work with, not against it.

I can say, that Andy was telling me correctly when he said the ATS was interfering with the Yeti parts. Hat's off to Andy and the boys at Steer Smarts, they know steering!



-Steven
Great review Steven, I think I would give this a try, well done. The reflection of the sun to your tie rod, I thought you swapped it out with the Metalcloak lol...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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Old 09-20-2018, 06:56 AM
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Great review Steven, I think I would give this a try, well done. The reflection of the sun to your tie rod, I thought you swapped it out with the Metalcloak lol...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Thanks Tak, appreciate that! That's still my Yeti tie Rod. I painted it bronze to go along with the other bronze accents.




-Steven
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:37 AM   #2524
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I assume it is a direct replacement for stock? Sounds like it's worth trying.

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Old 09-20-2018, 12:53 PM
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I assume it is a direct replacement for stock? Sounds like it's worth trying.

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Yes it is. Remember it was optimized to work with their Griffin XD.

Not sure of it's benefits when bolted into a stock linkage, or used without the Griffin. I can't speak to that, as I have no direct experience using it that way.


-Steven
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Old 09-20-2018, 07:09 PM
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Just a quick follow-up. Driving to and from work today, can't believe how much better my steering feels with the new HD-N. Andy, I owe you one!


-Steven
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Old 09-20-2018, 07:54 PM   #2527
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Well, I know of at least one


-Steven
Steven,

Thanks for the great review, looks like mine will be going on the used market also! I just sent Steer Smarts an email to see if they will put together a package deal with the damper bracket. Sounds like a lot of us will be switching!

Randy
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:15 PM
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Steven,

Thanks for the great review, looks like mine will be going on the used market also! I just sent Steer Smarts an email to see if they will put together a package deal with the damper bracket. Sounds like a lot of us will be switching!

Randy
Thanks Randy, good hearing from you!

I hope they get you set up and you'll be as happy with the results as I am with mine.


-Steven
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:08 AM   #2529
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Yes it is. Remember it was optimized to work with their Griffin XD.

Not sure of it's benefits when bolted into a stock linkage, or used without the Griffin. I can't speak to that, as I have no direct experience using it that way.


-Steven
There is a definite benefit over stock even though the stabilier has been optimized for the Griffin.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:10 AM
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There is a definite benefit over stock even though the stabilier has been optimized for the Griffin.
Thanks for the clarification Andy



-Steven
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:10 AM   #2531
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Just a quick follow-up. Driving to and from work today, can't believe how much better my steering feels with the new HD-N. Andy, I owe you one!


-Steven
Glad to hear it. Only want to get the right info out there and appreciate your review and feedback on the change. With a solid tube, the ATS works just fine, but the charged stabilizers don't work super well with the Griffin Attenuators.
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:32 PM   #2532
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Thanks Randy, good hearing from you!

I hope they get you set up and you'll be as happy with the results as I am with mine.


-Steven
Steer Smarts took care of me, already ordered! One day I need to create a build page for my Hard Rock like yours, planning to go to MOAB in 2020 when I retire. Going to be installing a L86 in mine the first of next year and getting crazy with my build!
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:22 PM
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Steer Smarts took care of me, already ordered! One day I need to create a build page for my Hard Rock like yours, planning to go to MOAB in 2020 when I retire. Going to be installing a L86 in mine the first of next year and getting crazy with my build!
Hey Randy, that's great to hear! Are you working with Andy?

Moab in 2020, love hearing that, and please do a build thread Sounds like you've got BIG plans, we need to see it


-Steven
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:46 PM   #2534
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Hey Randy, that's great to hear! Are you working with Andy?

Moab in 2020, love hearing that, and please do a build thread Sounds like you've got BIG plans, we need to see it


-Steven
No, Jay took care of me. I sent an email last evening and got a response after hours at 9:19 pm! These guys are the best, I can't wait to try the stabilizer out.

Yes, I have big plans, selling the corvette and sinking it all into the Jeep!

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Old 09-21-2018, 10:05 PM
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No, Jay took care of me. I sent an email last evening and got a response after hours at 9:19 pm! These guys are the best, I can't wait to try the stabilizer out.

Yes, I have big plans, selling the corvette and sinking it all into the Jeep!

Randy
They are the best, and are working hard to get it right. Post up your thoughts when you get the parts installed. Are you doing the install yourself?

This is going to be fun, start that thread!


-Steven
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:34 PM   #2536
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Hey Steven.. hate to but into the stabilizer talk but I pressure washed my Jeep today after a bunch of wheeling last weekend. It was pretty sloppy out there and mud just finds itself everywhere. Well getting a little aggressive with the pressure washer I managed to get some water into my 50" Lifetime Lightbar. Bummer....! I found a way to get over it real fast though. KC Gravity Pro 6 light bar on the way! Can't wait!

Now back to stabilizer talk....
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:46 PM
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Hey Steven.. hate to but into the stabilizer talk but I pressure washed my Jeep today after a bunch of wheeling last weekend. It was pretty sloppy out there and mud just finds itself everywhere. Well getting a little aggressive with the pressure washer I managed to get some water into my 50" Lifetime Lightbar. Bummer....! I found a way to get over it real fast though. KC Gravity Pro 6 light bar on the way! Can't wait!

Now back to stabilizer talk....
You my friend can butt in anytime you want! Sorry to hear you drowned your light bar...that Pro 6 will be sick on Nemesis Did you do the full Monty (8 light)?



-Steven
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:54 PM   #2538
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You my friend can butt in anytime you want! Sorry to hear you drowned your light bar...that Pro 6 will be sick on Nemesis Did you do the full Monty (8 light)?



-Steven

Yes, The Full Monty it is. LOL...

So I talked to KC support and they said it will drop into any quality light bar brackets so I just ordered the bar and not the whole kit. That saved some $$$. I'm already running Crawler Concepts light bar brackets. They weren't cheap but are formed from nearly 1/4" steel. I painted them body color to help them blend in so I have to admit that I'm pretty happy to be able to keep them.
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Old 09-22-2018, 06:24 AM   #2539
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They are the best, and are working hard to get it right. Post up your thoughts when you get the parts installed. Are you doing the install yourself?

This is going to be fun, start that thread!


-Steven
Will do. Yes, nobody touches my Jeep, my father was a mechanic so I grew up with a wrench in my hand!
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Old 09-22-2018, 07:53 AM
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Yes, The Full Monty it is. LOL...

So I talked to KC support and they said it will drop into any quality light bar brackets so I just ordered the bar and not the whole kit. That saved some $$$. I'm already running Crawler Concepts light bar brackets. They weren't cheap but are formed from nearly 1/4" steel. I painted them body color to help them blend in so I have to admit that I'm pretty happy to be able to keep them.
That's the best way to do that. I forgot you had the custom painted brackets. Maybe some custom powder coated rings to complete the look???

Your'e in for a pleasant surprise when you unbox them and see the build quality.


-Steven
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Old 09-22-2018, 07:55 AM
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Will do. Yes, nobody touches my Jeep, my father was a mechanic so I grew up with a wrench in my hand!
Sounds like you've got some skills...thanks Dad


-Steven
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:31 AM   #2542
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That's the best way to do that. I forgot you had the custom painted brackets. Maybe some custom powder coated rings to complete the look???

Your'e in for a pleasant surprise when you unbox them and see the build quality.


-Steven
Great Idea. I have a small powdercoating setup and some Gecko Green powder which matches my extroverted decal package. That's what my friend calls it anyway... So I can see that happening when I get it.
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:44 AM   #2543
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Glad to hear it. Only want to get the right info out there and appreciate your review and feedback on the change. With a solid tube, the ATS works just fine, but the charged stabilizers don't work super well with the Griffin Attenuators.
@Yeti_Andy with apologies to Steven for doing this on his thread, can I ask why and also what makes the Yeti stabilizer work with the Griffin so much better. My understanding of a charged stabilizer is the pressure keeps the oil in the stabilizer from aerating. So what did Yeti do if not charged?
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:16 AM
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@Yeti_Andy with apologies to Steven for doing this on his thread, can I ask why and also what makes the Yeti stabilizer work with the Griffin so much better. My understanding of a charged stabilizer is the pressure keeps the oil in the stabilizer from aerating. So what did Yeti do if not charged?
Great question Rich


-Steven
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Old 09-23-2018, 06:17 PM
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Hey Amigos, I just finished another Trail Report on my Blog. This was 7 Mile Rim from last October.





Here's the link: https://www.expeditionbuilds.com



-Steven
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:02 PM   #2546
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That Scott guy, in your blog, sounds like a trip! That whole thing was fun week wheeling. As you know, I went south after that day down to Hole in the Rock. That was fun, too.
It really is amazing what a well set up Jeep can do.
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:33 AM
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That Scott guy, in your blog, sounds like a trip! That whole thing was fun week wheeling. As you know, I went south after that day down to Hole in the Rock. That was fun, too.
It really is amazing what a well set up Jeep can do.
Lol...that Scott guy is a trip! That was great, we need to do it again my friend


-Steven
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:46 PM   #2548
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@Yeti_Andy with apologies to Steven for doing this on his thread, can I ask why and also what makes the Yeti stabilizer work with the Griffin so much better. My understanding of a charged stabilizer is the pressure keeps the oil in the stabilizer from aerating. So what did Yeti do if not charged?
The issue with a stabilizer that is positively charged, or, that is considered,"self-centering," is that they tend to fight the Griffin. The positively charged stabilizers are really just a shock that has been repurposed. With the constant force being applied, it loads up one side of the Griffin, which can create a soft feeling steering wheel. Our HD-N (Neutral) stabilizer is a smaller in size stabilizer that has a higher dampening force than stock which helps to absorb any resonance frequencies that are being transmitted through the tie-rod. The added benefit when running the Griffin is that it allows the Griffin to absorb the road noise without loading up the Griffin and creating a soft/loose/laggy steering feel. Hoping this helps explain some - can try more if not.
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Old 09-24-2018, 01:18 PM   #2549
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The issue with a stabilizer that is positively charged, or, that is considered,"self-centering," is that they tend to fight the Griffin. The positively charged stabilizers are really just a shock that has been repurposed. With the constant force being applied, it loads up one side of the Griffin, which can create a soft feeling steering wheel. Our HD-N (Neutral) stabilizer is a smaller in size stabilizer that has a higher dampening force than stock which helps to absorb any resonance frequencies that are being transmitted through the tie-rod. The added benefit when running the Griffin is that it allows the Griffin to absorb the road noise without loading up the Griffin and creating a soft/loose/laggy steering feel. Hoping this helps explain some - can try more if not.
Thank you for taking the time to answer!
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Old 10-01-2018, 12:38 PM   #2550
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Hey Steven what track bar flip bracket are you running? I'm running the MC and from the looks of the way the SS connects to the MC bracket I'm not going to be able to get the SS level with the tie rod. Do you think that's going to be a problem?

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