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Old 10-26-2018, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jee_per View Post
Just in case anyone following along is on the edge of your seat I thought I'd update on the 2002 Wrangler saga. I did some searching on line and found out this wrangler has a proportioning valve between the brake calipers and master cylinder. As it turns out it was sticking.

I found a useful site here that detailed how to modify that valve. It took only a few minutes and the brakes now work fine. It basically shows removing a rubber o-ring from the stem of the valve. I will be doing a ZJ valve install as detailed there as well. It seems like a no brainer to me.

Well just in case some future internet search brings someone here because of brake problems I thought I'd better give an update.


The proportioning valve ended up sticking again. Even with the rubber o-ring removed the valve must move and can jam.


I ended up buying a new one and the brakes are working better than ever.

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Old 11-07-2018, 10:10 AM   #92
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Thanks JeepTed. I've been following your build. You're setting the bar high for quality. I'm forced to try and do better when I see others like you doing a nice job on their builds.

Were you the one who was indicating that with your setup you are actually gaining rear drive shaft length? I haven't been able to get my engine and drive train bolted together to start testing fitment since I changed my mind and went the auto transmission route. I'm hoping the rear drive shaft isn't a problem for me. Many people have done it though so I assume it must work out fine.
Sorry I didn't get sooner. I missed your post.

Thank you for the compliment. I love this project. It has its pain-points, but it's a thrill.

Yes, I gained two and half inches of rear driveshaft after doing the slip yoke eliminator kit. I have my powerplant bolted on to the chassis, but I haven't measured for the new driveshaft yet. (Still working on the fuel system - wiring it up.) But, I plan to do that soon.

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Old 12-07-2018, 07:40 AM
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I haven't given up on this project. I've just had too much happening in life that is more important than this project. In fact I haven't even had time to move the project from the driveway into the garage for the winter. But that should be happening soon. I'm adding some lighting in the garage to make it easier to see and I'm finishing up installing a heater to make it a bit more comfortable in the cold winter months.

I'm trying to decide what the most logical next step is for the project. I think I've concluded that the engine rebuild should be next then the transmission. After that the transfer case. All of these things put a bite into my bank account so it will probably take a while to get all of them done. I don't have enough budgeted funds to do them all simultaneously.

The engine I can rebuild myself as well as the transfer case. But the inside of an automatic transmission is a mystery to me. I'm kind of thinking I may try to tackle it myself though. Not so much for budget reasons but for the experience.
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:42 AM   #94
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Glad to hear you have not given up on this project. Life happens and you had some pretty tough things happen this year. Looking forward to updates.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:14 PM
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So I'm slowly building up my "fun money" fund to continue this project. Since none of this money comes from my family budget I need to work extra hours or part time at a second job to fund this.

This ends up cutting into the time I could otherwise spend working on this project as a side effect. It also forces me to be a bit more careful in my decisions about spending for the project.

I originally wanted to be in the 500 horse power range. When I started the project this seemed easy enough to attain. And actually isn't really all that difficult with a GM LS power plant. The problem is that now I decided to go with an automatic transmission. What I'm starting to look at is the final cost of building a transmission to hold up to my power goals is going to cost almost as much as I've got into the entire project to this point.

I'm hoping that some of you that are following this thread will be willing to give me some ideas/feedback for getting a tight budget GM 4l60e to hold long term to the extra power I was planning to go for.

Also I think I could fit a 4l80e in place of the 4l60e without too much issue because of the body lift. Anyone here have any input on that thought?

I'm starting to consider paring back my initial power goal in an effort to get the Jeep on the road sooner. This will end up costing me more overall if I decide to go big after the Jeep is on the road.

I'm hoping someone reading this will chime in with ideas. I'm open to all criticism as well.
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:33 PM   #96
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Well I am not one to be critical, and of course like a lot of jeep owners I would like more power but why is it you need 500 hp? I don't remember what the purpose of this build (besides a custom build i.e. CJ clip on TJ) but I personally cannot see the purpose of need for 500 hp. The stock 6 produced about 190 hp ish. The 3.8 JK motor about 285 ish (and it's a lot heavier), so if you produced about 350-375 wouldn't that push you along pretty well? Certainly more affordable, and probably much more reliable. For me reliability at an affordable price is of great value.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 01-12-2019, 04:58 PM
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First off thank you for taking the time to reply. I appreciate it.

The answer to first question as to why 500 horse I'm afraid is kind of a dumb answer. "Because I can" really. I was reading about the LS engine and watching YouTube videos and decided it seemed like an easy target to reach for not a lot of expense. The only "purpose" of getting to 500 horse power is the grin factor. : ) I'm starting to question myself if that's what I actually want to end up with at this point.

Would less power move the Jeep along well? It sure would.

Just for a little background, I restored a 1977 CJ7 around the year 1995 or 1996. I put in a small block 5.7l Chevy engine with a mild cam. It was estimated to be between 275-300 horse power. I drove that Jeep for over 15 years mostly trouble free. It started out as a quadra-trac. Full time 4wd and open diffs. It would light up one front and one rear tire on dry pavement if I tried. It had 35 inch tires the whole time I had it. When I first got it on the road the old used front axle exploded within the first week.

So now I'm a little older and can spend a little more to build myself another toy and kind of just wanted to build it bigger and better so to speak. Mostly for bragging rights maybe?

I agree completely about reliability. That CJ7 had very few problems and the problems I did have were mostly self induced. I'm trying to build this one as reliable as I can make it too.

I'm willing to put out the cash to make it nice but I'm starting to question if I'll be sorry in the long run that I "over did it" on the power. That's pretty much why I posted up about it.

Again, your feedback is appreciated. You summed it up nicely.
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Old 01-13-2019, 07:39 PM   #98
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Well only you can tell if you would be sorry later. In my view I'd be tempted to build a really sweet looking and OFF-Road capable rig with a lot of custom touches (that don't cost a hell of a lot) and enjoy it. Nothing is un-doable or not upgrade-able later say in a few years IF you were to come into some cash later. Build it, drive it and enjoy it a few years then decide. I am older and still love wrenching when I can but also realize that like any hobby this can get the better of our reasonable judgement. You are already going to have an un-usual rig with the CJ clip on the TJ chassis. I wish I had those kinds of skills. Only you can decide what you want. I have several friends in the jeeping community that have gone down a similar path, i.e. big rig and big horsepower. And now they are bored because they've over-bilt and just can't take the rig out and enjoy it because it's too expensive and takes too much time and money to get it out.
Good luck on your decision, I look forward to any updates and your shared knowledge.
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:57 PM
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Thanks for the feedback. It really is appreciated.

I've been doing some more reading and talking to anyone who will listen and someone suggested a 6l80e transmission.

I've just started reading on it and it looks like it is bigger around than a 4l80e but shorter. I think with the body lift I have it would probably fit. It looks to be rated lower than a 4l80e but higher than a 4l60e for gvw by GM.

I started taking apart the 4.8 I have and the inside seems to be spotless. I plan to get some pictures of the cylinder walls soon. I think I see cross hatching in them. I haven't taken the oil pan off yet but hope to get that off soon as well.


If the rest of the bottom end look as good as the top does so far I'm tempted to just replace the bearings and run it with a mild cam for now. I've read a stock LS1 cam works good in a 4.8.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:44 PM
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I pulled the oil pan off today and looked at the bottom end of the 4.8. It looks pretty good so far. I haven't pulled the caps off yet but I'm not even going to bother at this point. I came across a 6.0 engine that is already disassembled and ready for some new rings and bearings so I snapped it up.


I wasn't really looking for it but the price seemed right and it can make some good power without a turbo so I decided to go with it. I've read I can bore the block out and with the right pistons I can make an iron block 6.2 engine that is 420 horse easily.


I guess I'm looking for a 4l80 transmission now.
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Old 01-17-2019, 06:39 PM
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My search for a 4l80 was over quick. The guy I got the 6.0 from had other parts I ended up snagging. While I was there yesterday buying the 6.0 he mentioned he had an aluminum L33 he would sell with with a transmission as a package deal. I thought he said it was a 2wd 4L80.

I didn't think much about it while I was there yesterday but I told my son about the engine because he wanted to put an aluminum 5.3 in his current TJ. I also did some searching to see how hard it would be to convert a 2wd 4L80 to 4wd.

My son decided today he wanted the engine so I called the guy back today. It turned out the transmission he was offering was actually a 6L80 from a G8 with 74,000 miles on it. So this afternoon I went with my son and picked up the package deal.

The 6L80 is actually shorter than the 4L80 so length shouldn't be a problem.

So now I have a 6.0 with a six speed automatic to use in my project. I have a bunch of reading to do but my initial search tells me I can easily convert a 2wd 6L80 into a 4wd. If I had to go the other way from 4wd to 2wd I would need a new output shaft but from 2 to 4 is easy so it seems.

I will need a PCM for a gen IV. I will also need a 58x reluctor ring crank. My initial searching indicates the 6L80 was never offered behind a gen III engine with a 24x ring.

The L33 my son bought is a gen IV and has the 58x ring crank. I need to figure out if I can use his crank in my 6.0. He is not going to use his L33 as a gen IV anyway.

Does anyone reading this know if I can swap cranks using my 6.0 crank in his 5.3 and his 5.3 crank in my 6.0?
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Old 01-18-2019, 10:58 AM
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I've been doing more reading and it looks like I can have the proper tone ring (aka reluctor ring) swapped on my 6.0 crank. I'd rather go this route than trade cranks only to find out later (after 2 engines are potentially destroyed) that the cranks are balanced for the pistons they are using.

I have ordered the 4wd transmission adapter. It may take a bit over a week to get here.

I have also changed my mind on which transfer case I will use. There is a post over on another forum (post #25 aarrgghh matey) that shows a picture of a ford NP205 mated to a 6L80 transmission. Since I happen to have a ford NP205 I have decided to use it on this project. I ended up ordering a 32 spline input shaft for it. This allows me to avoid using a slip yoke eliminator as well as giving me a gear to gear case.

I'm feeling pretty settled about the direction I have started toward. I'm hoping I don't get derailed again.

It's supposed to turn Arctic cold here this weekend so I probably won't be getting out to do much but I have a bunch more reading to do anyway.
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Old 02-03-2019, 04:18 PM
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It's been too cold outside for me to make any physical progress on this project. It's also been a hectic week with lots of overtime. At least I'm able to earn some more "fun money" for this project.

I got my heads back from the machine shop this week. The new Arp head bolts are here. I bought a flex hone to hone the block. I'm almost ready to start assembly on the LQ4 engine. I just haven't landed on what cam it will have. Once I make up my mind I will order that. Or maybe I'll put in the stock cam for now.

I talked to the owner of the machine shop that did my heads and he let me know I can use the 5.3 crank from my sons engine without worry. So my son has agreed to trade cranks with me. So basically I just need new bearings, rings and a cam and I can start assembly of the bottom end.

I also have the new input shaft for the Ford 205 transfer case as well as the 4x4 adapter for the 6L80e transmission. There is really nothing but lack of ambition due to the cold weather stopping me from getting that fitted together.

The 6L80e has its own transmission controller built in so I need to have a computer that can talk to that. I purchased an E67 computer online to run the engine but don't have any plugs to fit it. I'm having a bit of trouble finding what I need to get the parts to build the wiring harness. I'm hoping to find a donor vehicle harness soon.
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Old 02-06-2019, 05:18 PM
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I had some time today to get the new Chevy 32 spline input shaft installed in the Ford NP205. I also inspected the gears and bearings while I was in there. Everything inside looked like new so I buttoned it back up. I need to find a speedometer drive unit for it. Since the 6l80e has a speed sensor built in I can use the speedometer drive on the transfer case to drive my CJ speedometer. The case I have is missing that part.






Edit: turns out There is no missing part. This is how Ford does it:





So I ordered this to convert it to Chevy style.


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Old 02-09-2019, 09:54 AM   #105
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Well congrats on the engine find and the 205 discovery. I am still watching and envious.
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Old 02-09-2019, 06:45 PM
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Thanks. I'm hoping this will end up being a durable setup.

This winter has been pretty cold lately and I haven't really wanted to try getting the garage warmed up to work in, but it's worked out pretty well since my work has been asking me to work overtime. The extra money is coming at a good time.

I've been on the lookout for a wire harness that will work with the generation IV stuff. Today I bit the bullet and ordered a harness. It will need to be re-worked to be stand alone. The description says:

"GM part number 22916957.
Complete 2013-2014 GM truck/Van Main engine harness. These are GM V8 Vortec engine harnesses. Unsure what engine but they do have 8 injector connectors.
Selling for connectors only. These are being sold exactly as shown. THEY are brand new direct from GM assembly line and where bulk packed in boxes of 10. You
are BUYING one Harness with the following part#"s GM# 22916957 Delphi# 13935685"




It's hard to tell from the picture but I think it has the plug for the 6L80 transmission on it. I'm hoping it is for the e67 computer but if it isn't I'll end up getting the correct computer to fit this harness.


If bad comes to worse I'll end up buying a pre-built harness but I'm guessing I will be able to make this work.


The speedometer adapter and gear came today but the clip that holds the gear on was not included. I have ordered that as well.
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Old 02-15-2019, 07:00 PM
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Well I ended up buying the wrong harness. It was delivered today and does not have the 6l80 transmission plug on it. It is also for the e38 computer. After posting the picture from the listing I studied it a bit closer and was guessing it was wrong and now it is confirmed.


I'm pretty sure I can make it work though. I just ordered the correct pigtail for the 6l80 transmission and an e38 computer from a G8. I hope everything I got will be compatible. I've read that the 6l80 controller is fussy about what engine controller it talks to.
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:57 PM   #108
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Awesome project, looking forward to seeing the finished product!
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:01 AM
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Thanks.

Since the weather isn't the greatest I'm working extra hours at work whenever possible. At this time of year it doesn't bother me. I wouldn't be working on the project outside much anyway.


My son has his TJ in the garage right now working on his V8 swap.


I have been using my extra hours money to buy parts. Yesterday I ordered a new cam and some valve springs. I ordered a comp cams 54-424-11 cam and 26918-16 beehive springs. I'm also thinking about using the 862 4.8 heads instead of the 317 LQ4 heads. I found an article here that sounded good to me so I'm thinking I'll try it. The article uses 706 heads but my research leads me to believe the 706 and 862 heads are basically the same.
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Old 03-02-2019, 04:58 PM
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I got my cam in today. I was disappointed to say it nicely. I already requested a return. It was not quite as advertised...








I'll try again in a few days I guess...
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Old 03-03-2019, 12:51 PM   #111
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"Used-Like New" lol, looks awful!
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Old 03-13-2019, 04:03 PM
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My guess was that someone bought a new cam and returned their junkyard cam for a refund. It's disgusting to me that they would get away with it.


Another update small as it may be. Since the weather was mild and I got out early I decided to get something done on the project.


I fitted the 205 to the 6L80 adapter. Once it was attached I realized someone must have modified the shift rails on it to twin stick it. It came with an extra shift rail that I didn't notice before. I don't think I actually want the option or hassle of two sticks to shift it.


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Old 03-14-2019, 08:16 PM
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Another update.

Today I braved the rain and moved the project along a bit more. At this pace I may be done by Wednesday. I'm just not sure what month or year that Wednesday will be...

I cut the output shaft of the 6L80 and married the case and the transmission together.






I then moved on to bolting the transmission to the 4.8 block for test fitting into the frame. I didn't get any pictures of that. Once the engine and transmission were between the frame rails I thought I should get the frame off the jack stands and onto the axles. I put the axles on stock springs and stock control arms. That's when I realized I have a problem.


It seems my motor mounts are too low for a stock ride height. The control arms go right under the motor mounts and there is only about 1/2" of clearance. I don't have much up travel that way.


When I originally built the motor mounts I was planning a long arm setup with 4" springs. There was plenty of room for that setup.


I'm not sure what I'll do yet. I'm considering my options at this point. My first option is to try some 2.5" springs which is what I think I will end up with anyway. Another option is to relocate the motor mounts.



With the engine/tranny sitting in the frame I'm also concerned the 205 case may need to be clocked down a little. I'm not sure how I'll tackle that either.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:02 AM
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Another minor update with no pictures.


I've decided I will need to move the motor mounts. I want the ability to run a stock Wrangler suspension if I choose to. I may never run it but I want the ability.


Just out of curiosity I decided I'd see if putting 2.5" of lift was even an option to fix the problem. I measured the distance from the bottom of the bumpers to the ground. I then raised the bottom of the bumpers 2.5" to simulate a lift. It still looked too close for comfort to me so it is a no brainer.


I will probably move on to rebuilding the LQ4 engine and the 205 transfer case now. This can be done in my garage where I have heat and am out of the elements. It will also be warmer/nicer outside when I am done with those so removing the problematic mounts will be more tolerable.
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Old 03-15-2019, 04:53 PM
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Another set back this afternoon. I thought I had a good set of pistons in the LQ4. My plan was to re-use them and just "freshen up" the bottom end. I've never actually done that in the past but thought I'd try it now. It wasn't a good idea.

I started cleaning the carbon off the pistons in preparation for installing new rings. I was using Simple Green and a scrub brush. I let the pistons soak in a tub of about 4 parts water one part Simple Green. Simple Green states it is "safe on aluminum" but don't let them soak for more than 10 minutes.

While I was scrubbing one of the pistons the piston broke in my hand. The piece between the ring grooves (I think it's called the land) separated from the rest of the piston.

I was sceptical of re-using the old pistons anyway. My instincts told me to get new pistons and do a full "rebuild". I'm now on the hunt for new pistons.
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:24 PM
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Last week I dropped off my block and some 862 heads to the machine shop. I'm getting the block cleaned, decked and honed. And the heads are getting cleaned, surfaced and pressure tested. I'm expecting a call any day that they are ready for pick up. I will also be buying new pistons from that shop.

Once I have that stuff back I can start assembling the engine. With those heads and cam I should be around 450 HP after tuning. It's more than I really need but it will probably stay naturally aspirated as long as I have it.

I have also flip flopped on my suspension. I originally was going to do long arm then I decided to go stock arms and now I'm back to long arms. I ordered the Rough Country long arm upgrade kit today. I know Rough Country isn't thought of as a high end lift but it is fine for the type of off road driving I do.

My main reason for going away from long arms was trying to keep the Jeep low slung for a lower center of gravity. When I put the body lift on it seems to sit pretty high. I was also concerned I may have trouble getting into the Jeep as I get older. I plan to keep this thing for a long time.

After thinking about it a little more I decided if I start having trouble getting in/out I will figure out a way to build a step to aid in ingress and egress.
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Old 03-30-2019, 03:54 PM
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Still no word from the machine shop. It's been over a week already. I guess he's busy.


I started on the suspension while I wait for the engine. I'd like to get it on it's axles anyway. I got the (cough...new) brackets cut off the frame. Well all but the front upper brackets. Those will probably get destroyed while I get them off.


I got the long arm frame brackets installed. I got the new control arms assembled and bolted to the frame brackets. I have the rear axle attached and sitting on the 4 inch lift springs. No track or sway bar yet though.


The front axle is more difficult. The old control arm bolts are rusted in the bushings and won't turn. They will need to be cut out before I can attach the front axle. I'm still looking for a stronger axle but am not willing to pay the high prices I see for a worn out Dana 44 when I actually see them for sale. I'll continue to rebuild the Dana 30 while I search I guess.


I'll try to get pictures this week but keep forgetting.
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Old 03-31-2019, 06:29 PM
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I got the old control arm bolts cut and the old arms removed. I have the frame temporarily sitting on the axles. It doesn't seem to make much of an interesting picture but I'd post one up if anyone really wanted to see it. No sway bar or track bars installed yet.


I did order some front sway bar quick disconnects and shocks today. I'm still thinking through track bar options.
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Old 04-09-2019, 03:22 PM   #119
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I don't check out the builds in the TJ section often. I will certainly follow along with this one now.
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Old 04-11-2019, 05:53 PM
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Thanks daddyjeep. I just read through your entire build thread. That was quite the undertaking. I like the idea of having a link suspension which is why I started with a TJ. I'm just not that interested in learning how to design a suspension like you did. My hat is off to anyone who takes something like that on. Nice work. You've obviously put a lot of time and effort into it.



I'm still inching my way through this build. I keep getting too little time to make much physical progress. I am assembling a lot of parts though. At least when I finally get back to the physical work I'll have a lot new parts to put in it.


As an aside from this project I just picked up another donor truck for my next project. I traded for a '94 Dodge Cummins 12 valve 5 speed 4x4 truck. It will eventually become my third and (hopefully) final M715. I'm actually getting a little antsy to get started on it. Here is a picture of my last one before I sold it.



Those tires are 36 inches tall. They fit with no lift. I just ordered some 37 inch tires today for the Dodge. They will be just about perfect on the M715.



I'm hoping my CJ converted Tj looks as good when I'm done.

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2002 Jeep Wrangler Sport

1998 Jeep TJ/CJ conversion on the way
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