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Old 08-22-2012, 11:59 PM
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Horn problem please help

Technically for my cherokee but cant find anything anywhere

MY horn won't work....

I power probed the horn itself...it works..

I power probed the buttons...it works...

I power probed the relay... Found power in nothing sending Out of any of the receptacles, with or without the relay installed...

Someone have a diagram or any ideas I can't find anything. Kinda stumped. Thanks!

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Old 08-23-2012, 08:15 AM   #2
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Check the horn itself, sometimes, not often, they go bad and need to be replaced.

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Old 08-23-2012, 09:02 AM   #3
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Did you meter the wire coming from the steering column to the relay? It should be a negative trigger, though without a year for the cherokee, I couldn't tell you what color it is. You can ground the wire, and the horn should honk if all else is good.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eboven
Did you meter the wire coming from the steering column to the relay? It should be a negative trigger, though without a year for the cherokee, I couldn't tell you what color it is. You can ground the wire, and the horn should honk if all else is good.
Sorry it's a 95. With the airbag. Yeah we tested both switches for continuity and they both seemed to allow voltage flow. So they shouldn't be bad
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:25 PM
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If I knew what color wire goes from te relay to the physical horn I'd try a scrap wire run to see if it's broken in the engine bay
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Old 08-24-2012, 10:44 AM   #6
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Alright, 95 Cherokee shows a black wire with a red stripe. It's a negative trigger, so just find this wire in the bundle of wires running down your steering column. It won't be thick, probably 18 gauge or so. If the wire you find isn't the only black/red wire in the harness, than test it with a multi-meter before probing it! It should show a low current ground when the horn switch is pressed. They also usually rest with some kind of voltage present - 5 to 12 volts when the horn isn't pressed. If it doesn't show a ground when pressed, and you are POSITIVE it's the horn wire, you can ground it with a jumper wire to see if it honks the horn.

If the wire shows a ground when the horn is pressed, than the relay or horn are more likely culprits. You did check all the fuses in the vehicle, right? They aren't always labeled with all the components they may supply power to, so it's a good idea to check each fuse with a probe or multi-meter.
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Old 08-24-2012, 07:36 PM
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I found which one the button comes down from. I think my clock spring is what's messing every thing up so I went ahead and bought one off eBay for $35 so I'll see if that helps. Thanks a lot tho your a big help for sure. Where are you getting this info from tho?
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:57 AM   #8
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I am a professional automotive electronics installer as a living... I install remote starts, alarms, radio's, amps, anything electrical in vehicles. I often interface with horn triggers for aftermarket alarm systems. I have access to Directechs, a vehicle wiring database provided by Directed, who makes most remote start and alarm systems out there.

Did you happen to check the wire I suggested? That really is the first place I would look when diagnosing a horn issue.
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Old 08-25-2012, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eboven
I am a professional automotive electronics installer as a living... I install remote starts, alarms, radio's, amps, anything electrical in vehicles. I often interface with horn triggers for aftermarket alarm systems. I have access to Directechs, a vehicle wiring database provided by Directed, who makes most remote start and alarm systems out there.

Did you happen to check the wire I suggested? That really is the first place I would look when diagnosing a horn issue.
Ahhhhh. That definitely helps
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Old 08-25-2012, 02:33 PM
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I found the wire (took apart the steering wheel to go right to the button easy) mines solid black... Or attest up there it is. I think my clock spring is bad and breaking current flow not making it work. So I found one for $35 just gotta wait for it in the mail and I'll see from there!
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Old 08-25-2012, 02:34 PM
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Side note too... 1995 had a mechanical air bag, no electrical connection at all. It's weird. I don't really understand it
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:37 PM   #12
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@ eboven... given your background in electronics, I too have a question regarding my horn which is not working.

I have a 1998 2.5L if that helps.. I recently took my Jeep for inspection and it failed due to the horn not working. Gotta love that!

This is how the vehicle tests: Both of my horns work when tested straight from the battery. Both of the positive wires have 12.4 volts running through them. Both grounds are good. When the horn button is depressed on the steering wheel, it sends the signal through both horn wires to the test meter and an audible "beep" is present. HOWEVER...
As soon as I plug in either of the horns, neither one works??? I even tried switching the plugs but to no avail. The relay is working as you can hear it click.......???? Please help!! Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks!
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:19 AM   #13
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Try taking the horns out, brackets and all. Clean the contact surfaces, then reinstall. It's possible they have lost there ground and the power is not flowing through the horns. Just a hunch based on the info you have given so far.
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Old 08-27-2012, 05:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firemangully View Post
@ eboven... given your background in electronics, I too have a question regarding my horn which is not working.

I have a 1998 2.5L if that helps.. I recently took my Jeep for inspection and it failed due to the horn not working. Gotta love that!

This is how the vehicle tests: Both of my horns work when tested straight from the battery. Both of the positive wires have 12.4 volts running through them. Both grounds are good. When the horn button is depressed on the steering wheel, it sends the signal through both horn wires to the test meter and an audible "beep" is present. HOWEVER...
As soon as I plug in either of the horns, neither one works??? I even tried switching the plugs but to no avail. The relay is working as you can hear it click.......???? Please help!! Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks!
When you say both grounds are good, and that you see 12.4v at the horn, where are you measuring your ground? If you are using a probe type tester, try getting your hands on an actual multi-meter. Place the red probe on the positive lead, and the black on the negative lead, both as close as possible to the actual horn. Have a friend hit the horn while you keep an eye on your meter. Your meter should show an open circuit until the horn is pressed, then it should read 12 volts for the duration of the horn switch being pressed.

Verify that you have this situation to rule out the wiring/relay in the Jeep itself, then report back here. As trukdryverchuck said, you should also clean out the connectors leading into the horn, and spread some di-electric grease around the connector to ensure good contact.
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Old 09-03-2012, 12:20 AM   #15
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Ok, here is the latest and I am frustrated as all get out! Several of the guys I work with can't even wrap their heads around it.
I have tested both horns, AND even bought a brand new one. All the horns have both a positive and negative post on them.

I used a multimeter as advised at the connector, which measures open until the horn button is depressed on the steering wheel and then measures 12.6-12.7 volts until released. To rule out the connectors I cut them and have tried to get it to work straight from the wires itself.

At one time I had both horns working and tested them about 8 times. Then I went to bolt them back to the Jeep and they both stopped....Haven't heard them since???

The relay is good, an audible "click" every time I press the horn button. I even switched out the fuses to see if another would work but nothing.

I AM AT A LOSS.................................????????????? ?????????
Everything checks out like it's supposed to individually, but it won't work when all together.

Help Please
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Old 09-03-2012, 12:30 AM   #16
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bump...for help!
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:41 AM   #17
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I agree with trukdryverchuck... I say pull all of your connections apart and check your contacts for any sort of corrosion or anything... Sometimes even a little bit can be enough to make some stuff not work/connect properly. Sounds like pretty much everything else is working for the most part...
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:30 AM   #18
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Thanks for the support Keymo, I appreciate it.... will continue to diagnose
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:39 AM   #19
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I just re-read your last post, and now I feel a little foolish. You said you could rule out the connectors since you cut them and tried again.... My bad, man.

I would check out what your horn's voltage should be at when you have the button at the wheel depressed. Maybe it's getting improper voltage...?

I did some googleing for you... Bored at work... This is for a Cherokee, I think, though the way the horn works relay-wise would probably be similar... Maybe...
Quote:
The problem is usually in the steering column. You could use a voltage tester at the horn relay. Terminals 30 and 86 are hot all the time. Terminal 85 is ground for the coil side of relay, your horn switch, grounds the circuit. When the relay is grounded, that arm with the arrow-head moves to terminal 87, 87 carries voltage to the horn.
Diagram:
Attachment 156584

You should check out those terminals that are supposed to be hot all the time and make sure they are. I know you said you were getting voltage AT the horns, but there might be something going on in those terminals causing something to go not quite right...

I noticed you said you had them un-bolted and got them to work and then they stopped when you bolted them back down..? You also said you swapped out with a new one... Try unbolting them again and seeing if they work again/test with your multimeter while they're unbolted and see if anything changes for you. Supposedly the horns NEED to be bolted down to work properly because of some grounding issue...

Also, when you had them unbolted and they worked, were they in the same orientation as they would be bolted down? Were they sitting on metal? I'm not sure exactly HOW this would effect them working or not, but something could be loose INSIDE your horn itself that's causing the problem...

Sorry for the crappy first reply... Hopefully this one is a little more helpful...
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:10 PM   #20
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I wonder if your problem is not enough current to trigger the horns. You said you got an open circuit on the two horn wires until the horn switch is pressed and then it went to 12v. Was this with the horns plugged in, or unplugged? I would try to feed the horn wires directly with a new source.

Use a couple of jumper wires from the positive and negative battery posts to trigger the two horn wires. I would cut the wires a few inches from your horn, and tie in the jumper wires into the correct wires (make sure they're positive to positive, negative to negative) running into your horn; it would be a good idea to fuse the positive side with a 10-20 amp fuse just in case something shorts. Hold the negative jumper wire to the ground post of the battery, and tap the positive jumper on the positive battery post. If the horn honks, your problem is not the horns or their connectors - if it doesn't honk, than I would think the connectors are bad if you're sure the horns work. Your horn relay may be supplying them with 12 volts, but the amperage may not be enough to actually sound the horns, this could be from corroded connectors, or even the relay itself.
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Old 09-10-2012, 02:59 PM
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Found the problem! :P At some point in time the PO took the relay out and never put one in its space. And in actuality I have been fighting with the cruise control relay which I don't even have yet is wired fully.

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