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Old 01-03-2016, 12:02 AM
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Polk db6501's - 45W enough?

Hello all. Just looking for input regarding the Polk db6501 components that I'll install this weekend. I had planned wire the amp for 45Wx4, covering both the components up front & coaxials in the soundbar. Now I'm rethinking this to be better suited for the front components only at 90Wx2 (bridged). Any thoughts by others running these speakers?

The HU is already in, I'll be installing the amp & speakers only. I'll apply as much Dynamat to the front enclosures and soundbar interior as I can, then add polyfill to both. Disconnecting tweeters in soundbar.

2015 JKS
Equipment list:


Pioneer FH-X720BT CD Receiver
PAC RP4-CH11 wiring interface
Metra 40-EU10 antenna adapter
Metra 95-6511 dash kit
Polk db6501 components in dash
Kicker 77KICK10 coaxial in soundbar
Alpine KTP-445U 45x4 amp

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Old 01-03-2016, 09:04 AM   #2
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Run 90 watts to the front and run your Rears off the head unit. You will get the best front sound stage from that configuration.

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Old 01-03-2016, 12:10 PM   #3
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45 RMS watts per channel is more than enough to fully drive those Polk DB6501 speakers. They have a 92 dB Sensitivity (aka Efficiency) rating which means they don't need a lot of power to fully drive them. I ran similar Polks in my previous TJ with only 22 RMS watts per channel and they actually sounded very good. Then I added an aftermarket amp with about the same 45 RMS watts per channel and I'd have to say it was a perfect combination... it really sounded good with enough power that I didn't feel the need for more even with the top down.
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:29 PM
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Haha...first two replies are basically the argument that I'm having with myself (45W should be enough, but am I putting it where it matters most?)!

Thanks for your input. Anyone else?
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:32 PM   #5
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Don't get into analysis paralysis, 45 RMS watts per channel is more than enough for those particular Polk speakers.
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Old 01-04-2016, 04:06 AM   #6
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My argument is this...The most important two channels in your car stereo are the front two. And they are by far a better sounding speaker. Your rear speakers are for a little fill when the top is off. You want your sound stage in front of you, not behind you. I'ts the old saying, I don't stand with my back to the stage at a concert.

Personally if it was me and I was dealing with 45w RMS I'd prefer to double it and put it all up front and run my rears off the head unit. By doubling your wattage up front, you'd have a gain of 3db (keep in mind that's not double the volume) and gain a little head room.

Will 45 watts be loud enough? Sure, 10 watts may be loud enough to some...but if you listen loud, you will start to introduce distortion sooner with an under powered amp than one rated closer to the speakers power handling.

Aren't those speakers rated at 100wpc?
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Old 01-04-2016, 01:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattk11 View Post
My argument is this...The most important two channels in your car stereo are the front two. And they are by far a better sounding speaker. Your rear speakers are for a little fill when the top is off. You want your sound stage in front of you, not behind you. I'ts the old saying, I don't stand with my back to the stage at a concert.

Personally if it was me and I was dealing with 45w RMS I'd prefer to double it and put it all up front and run my rears off the head unit. By doubling your wattage up front, you'd have a gain of 3db (keep in mind that's not double the volume) and gain a little head room.

Will 45 watts be loud enough? Sure, 10 watts may be loud enough to some...but if you listen loud, you will start to introduce distortion sooner with an under powered amp than one rated closer to the speakers power handling.

Aren't those speakers rated at 100wpc?
First, a speaker's maximum wattage rating has nothing do do with how much power a speaker requires to be driven to a reasonable sound pressure level. How much power a speaker actually requires to sound good is measured by its Sensitivity (aka Efficiency) rating which is measured in dBs (Decibels). I could show you examples of four different 100 watt speakers and all four would require different amounts of power to drive them.

If the OP's Polk speakers had a low Sensitivity rating, like 84-85 dB as many speakers have, then you'd be right that 45 RMS watts would not be enough. But they don't, they have a 92 dB Sensitivity (Efficiency) rating which makes a huge difference. For example, a speaker with a 86 dB Sensitivity rating requires 4X the power to drive to the same SPL that a speaker with a 92 dB rating requires... every 3 dB of reduced Sensitivity means it takes twice the power to make a noticeable difference in the SPL (sound pressure level).

In the 55 or so years since I built my first stereo amplifier from scratch followed by sets of 3 to 5-way speaker systems, I've learned a few things. First, there are a lot of well intentioned people out there offering advice who don't take everything into account that can affect just how much power a speaker requires to sound good. Especially common is when the Sensitivity rating doesn't get paid attention to because few understand just how important of a specification it is. Few even know what the Sensitivity rating means and fewer yet take it into account when selecting speakers or amplifiers.

Last example... the old classic Acoustic Research AR-2A acoustic suspension speakers I based my first speaker build on only had an 85 dB Sensitivity rating and they required a buttload of power to drive them. Had they instead had a 92 dB Sensitivity rating as the OP's Polk speakers have, I could have gotten away with a significantly lower wattage amplifier.

The bottom line is that I didn't pull that recommendation and advice I made above out of where the sun doesn't shine.
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Old 01-04-2016, 02:38 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
First, a speaker's maximum wattage rating has nothing do do with how much power a speaker requires to be driven to a reasonable sound pressure level. How much power a speaker actually requires to sound good is measured by its Sensitivity (aka Efficiency) rating which is measured in dBs (Decibels). I could show you examples of four different 100 watt speakers and all four would require different amounts of power to drive them. If the OP's Polk speakers had a low Sensitivity rating, like 84-85 dB as many speakers have, then you'd be right that 45 RMS watts would not be enough. But they don't, they have a 92 dB Sensitivity (Efficiency) rating which makes a huge difference. For example, a speaker with a 86 dB Sensitivity rating requires 4X the power to drive to the same SPL that a speaker with a 92 dB rating requires... every 3 dB of reduced Sensitivity means it takes twice the power to make a noticeable difference in the SPL (sound pressure level). In the 55 or so years since I built my first stereo amplifier from scratch followed by sets of 3 to 5-way speaker systems, I've learned a few things. First, there are a lot of well intentioned people out there offering advice who don't take everything into account that can affect just how much power a speaker requires to sound good. Especially common is when the Sensitivity rating doesn't get paid attention to because few understand just how important of a specification it is. Few even know what the Sensitivity rating means and fewer yet take it into account when selecting speakers or amplifiers. Last example... the old classic Acoustic Research AR-2A acoustic suspension speakers I based my first speaker build on only had an 85 dB Sensitivity rating and they required a buttload of power to drive them. Had they instead had a 92 dB Sensitivity rating as the OP's Polk speakers have, I could have gotten away with a significantly lower wattage amplifier. The bottom line is that I didn't pull that recommendation and advice I made above out of where the sun doesn't shine.
Jerry I understand what rated power and sensitivity mean, I've been doing car stereo installs for 33 years.

I merely gave my opinion on how I'd do it if it were my Jeep. This isn't a pissing match about building home stereo gear (which I've also done a lot of). I've always been of the school of thought, right or wrong that having more power is better than too little especially in open air vehicles that require more dynamic sound.
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Old 01-06-2016, 08:21 AM   #9
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I have the 6501s currently running 45x4. The last vehicle I had I had them bridged at 90x2. I plan on rewiring them when I have some time exactly as Matt said, fronts off the amp and the rears off of the HU. 45x4 is perfectly fine with the top on but once the top comes off I feel like it needs just a tad more juice.
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:33 PM
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KTP-445U cutting out at high volume

Installed this amp and Polk db6501's in the dash of my 2015 JK today.
The amp keeps cutting out at mid or high volume. Right now I can even move the gain to 10% without this happening? Any ideas?

I have it bridged (90Wx2) running the Polk db6501's only.
#10 power wire to the battery
Connected with RCA cables

Down where you unplug the passenger door elec connector to remove, there are two threaded studs that are used for existing ground cables. This is where I grounded the amp. I am an electrician and if this where a building issue I would probably blame & look for a bad neutral wire (grounding conductor). I intend to check/relocate/remove/? this weekend.
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Old 01-08-2016, 07:32 AM   #11
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I have mine grounded in the exact same spot and no issues. I will say that when I had it bridged I had a similar issue, however I was not connected straight to the battery. From what I have read from other places this was supposed to take care of that.

I would try disconnected the speakers and playing a test tone with a MM hooked up to it and see what kind of output you are getting at the point where it would be cutting out. Could just be that it doesn't have enough juice for you.

Also if you have a sub I would try setting the crossover on the amp to 60 or 80 ( i forget what increments it goes in)
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Old 01-09-2016, 06:14 PM
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Worked on this all afternoon but no dice. Checked/reinstalled power, ground, and rerouted audio cables (they were already separated, I just separated them even more). If only one speaker is connected its awesome. I can turn up the amp to about 9:00 and the component speaker sounds good (either speaker, either channel). Connect them both and it cuts in and out just like a grd/pwr issue. I've already removed the amp, & now I'm sitting here feeling defeated. Guess I'll look for something else and just put it under the seat.
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:14 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by severetitan View Post
Worked on this all afternoon but no dice. Checked/reinstalled power, ground, and rerouted audio cables (they were already separated, I just separated them even more). If only one speaker is connected its awesome. I can turn up the amp to about 9:00 and the component speaker sounds good (either speaker, either channel). Connect them both and it cuts in and out just like a grd/pwr issue. I've already removed the amp, & now I'm sitting here feeling defeated. Guess I'll look for something else and just put it under the seat.
There are several amps that will fit under the dash that are 4 channel. Rockford makes a couple, Arc Audio makes a mini amp, Alpine PDX amps will all fit.
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by severetitan View Post
Worked on this all afternoon but no dice. Checked/reinstalled power, ground, and rerouted audio cables (they were already separated, I just separated them even more). If only one speaker is connected its awesome. I can turn up the amp to about 9:00 and the component speaker sounds good (either speaker, either channel). Connect them both and it cuts in and out just like a grd/pwr issue. I've already removed the amp, & now I'm sitting here feeling defeated. Guess I'll look for something else and just put it under the seat.
That sucks man, is the amp brand new? Sounds like there could be a problem with amp, maybe?

If you are replacing it, take a look at this: XDi 450.4Â*| Arc Audio Great amp with plenty of power, yet small enough to fit in a couple different places in the Jeep.
http://www.amazon.com/XDi-450-4-Audi.../dp/B00N266634

FWIW, I would definitely send the front speakers all the power and run the rears off the h/u. It's all about building the front, the rears are just fill... Most top notch car audio systems do NOT run rear fill.

I have 600 watts rms going to the front and 2,000 rms to the sub, and I am experimenting with rear fill running the stock speakers off my stock h/u. I am still on the fence about whether I want/like it or not... If I do I'll add an amp and a pair of good mid range speakers to the sound bar.
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Old 01-10-2016, 02:55 PM
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That sucks man, is the amp brand new? Sounds like there could be a problem with amp, maybe?

If you are replacing it, take a look at this: XDi 450.4Â*| Arc Audio Great amp with plenty of power, yet small enough to fit in a couple different places in the Jeep.
Amazon.com : XDi 450.4 - Arc Audio 4-Channel 450W XDi V2 Amplifier : Car Electronics

FWIW, I would definitely send the front speakers all the power and run the rears off the h/u. It's all about building the front, the rears are just fill... Most top notch car audio systems do NOT run rear fill.

I have 600 watts rms going to the front and 2,000 rms to the sub, and I am experimenting with rear fill running the stock speakers off my stock h/u. I am still on the fence about whether I want/like it or not... If I do I'll add an amp and a pair of good mid range speakers to the sound bar.
This looks like a quality amp. I was sketchy about a $125 amp (with that kind of power) all along. It gets great reviews so I went ahead with it. Based on others reviews I could probably go get a replacement Alpine & find that it works properly. I usually "buy once, cry once" so I believe I'll just lick my wounds and buy something like the amp referenced above. Thanks for your help.
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Old 01-10-2016, 03:53 PM   #16
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This looks like a quality amp. I was sketchy about a $125 amp (with that kind of power) all along. It gets great reviews so I went ahead with it. Based on others reviews I could probably go get a replacement Alpine & find that it works properly. I usually "buy once, cry once" so I believe I'll just lick my wounds and buy something like the amp referenced above. Thanks for your help.
Fortunately or unfortunately, we get what we pay for in car audio... It's a chance to upgrade!
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Old 01-11-2016, 09:07 PM   #17
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Fortunately or unfortunately, we get what we pay for in car audio... It's a chance to upgrade!
This is SO true. Don't skimp on a head unit or speakers but there are some good values available for amplifiers. Precision Power sells the PPI 900.4 and 900.5. Sounds great, puts out rated wattage and is small enough to tuck away. There are "clones" of these amps sold by NVX, Polk and Soundstream. Guts are the same but the cases are different.
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Old 02-06-2016, 07:22 AM   #18
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Sorry iv been gone from electronics world been in the lifting my jeep world.
Yeah man I have my jeep wrapped in these db6501's in all 4 spots. I get what people say put your better speakers up front and have some mellow behind you but that didn't matter to me I just tone it down as I need with the head unit if it's too rediculous. I powered mine with a pp900.4 the .5 would be nice to have for a little less power on the speakers and running a sub but I wanted my sub to have its own source with plenty of power for the speakers. I'd rather blow them than not give them enough. This amp is a little over kill but not really these speakers can handle it, and for the amp it will impress you just start LOWWW. Cheap amp too always a plus. Tucked under steering wheel. It will fit. All genres sound good with these and high volumes. Tweets on -3 db.
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Old 02-07-2016, 11:33 AM   #19
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This week in my 2014 JK (with a 430 and the Alpine premium sound) I installed Polk db6501’s in the front and and Polk db651s in the rear (roll bar). The factory Alpine system came with a 368-watt amplifier which I left in. Installing the Polk tweeters in the tombstones in the front involved widening out the opening, the other speakers were pretty straight forward. I used a Dremel and took my time taking small amounts of plastic until the tweeters fit in tightly. Now that everything is installed the sound quality is AWESOME.
In the jeep I like to keep my Iphone mounted on a magnetic mount on the windshield. Unfortunately that meant running the power cord from the center counsel all the way to the dash which meant a long cord that got in the way a lot. Since the dash was apart anyways I replaced the center counsel USB cord with a new one (Mopar USB iPod Interface Cable – 82212936AB). The USB Bluetooth module is located behind the dash heat panel. Ran it along the radio and the drilled a small hole into the top center dash and exited the Iphone cord there.
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