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Old 06-17-2019, 07:43 AM
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Talk me in or out of my first Wrangler

So I've been looking for months possibly ordering a new JL. Started looking at the two doors cuz I really love them but realized functionality of the four-door is just so much more sensible. This will be a personal vehicle / work truck and it's one of the few SUVs I can fit the boxed product that I pick up at one of my manufacturers. Most SUVs don't have a large enough rear opening but I'm burning the wheels off my cargo van and really don't have a daily driver right now as my 99 2 door Tahoe is getting pretty tired (old). Here's my dilemma. A lot of what I read and even a good friend of mine is trying to talk me out of Jeeps. He said their company operates a ton of fleet vehicles and out of all of them the Jeeps are in the shop the most. He's a die-hard car guy and is not partial to anything so I like his opinion because he'll tell it how it is doesn't matter what manufacturer it is. The way I'm trying to order up a19 comes in at about $55,000. Since I have a pretty good connection at our local Jeep dealer here in town he would do one at 47,200 getting me all incentives and kickbacks. Pretty decent deal (I think) for a Wrangler and I cannot find the one optioned up the way I want... and if I'm spending that much money im just ordering it. I know the 20's are right around the corner but I don't see anything changing much since this is such a new body.

I'm looking for really solid honest answers. Not Fanboy replies that just love Jeeps because they're Jeeps. I want to know your real honest truth opinion about reliability on the Jeep products. I'd like to hear about what problems you had that are significant? I have run my Chevy's till the wheels have fallen off and they generally have been pretty Rock Solid. Have I had to buy a transmission here and there yes but my last Chevy van had 350,000 miles on it and that particular truck had the complete original drivetrain still ran like at Timex. And I'm not exactly a Lightfoot.

I am just so on the fence with buying a Jeep product. I tried it once with an 04 Overland and I absolutely hated the truck. Worst vehicle I ever owned and I finally got Detroit to tefundvevery dime under the lemon laws. Took me 14 months of fighting though . I swore off Chrysler for life but here I am looking.... I've been so gun-shy about going back but this is about the only vehicle that will fit my needs and replace the Tahoe and light-duty I need to use the cargo van for because I also want to put a small plow on it for a couple rental properties and my work lot. (Tahoe currently has a plow)

I just have this gut feeling I'm not going to get the reliability out of this vehicle that I have my past Chevys... and if I'm going to spend $50,000 on a vehicle I'm wondering if I should look elsewhere.

So there it is. Talk me in or out of this purchase and tell me why? Thanks for honest opinions guys I really appreciate it

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Old 06-17-2019, 07:47 AM   #2
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Get it.


(edit. Now I read your post. How much are you planning on driving annually? Mine is a daily. It's a 16 JKUR with a manual. I drive about 25K a year. No real issues. Never in the shop with 81K on it.)

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Old 06-17-2019, 08:24 AM
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Get it.


(edit. Now I read your post. How much are you planning on driving annually? Mine is a daily. It's a 16 JKUR with a manual. I drive about 25K a year. No real issues. Never in the shop with 81K on it.)
Daily driver for sure probably 15 to 20 K possible depending on how much I use it for work. I'm contemplating possibly leasing first with the option to buy but I don't know just yet. I could probably keep the miles below 15K and they actually have an 18000 mile lease as well but if I want to take a long trip I don't want to worry about how many miles I'm putting on the thing. But at the same time a 3 year lease lets me out if I don't like it. I've just never leased and I need to do the math on how much more that would cost me or not. What I do like is you're not paying juice on that first three years leasing it. I am in a position where I can probably just buy it outright at the end of the lease but I don't know if I can lease the exact vehicle I want by ordering or if I have to take a particular vehicle they have. Haven't got that far yet.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:56 AM
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When I forgot to mention the part about the dealer telling me Saturday that they cannot sell one single Wrangler on their lot due to a recall that was issued Friday. That's exactly what I want to hear when I'm about ready to order one.

Apparently there is some sort of steering issue. No specifics given but literally every single VIN on their lot could not be sold due to the recall.
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:03 AM   #5
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Recalls are recalls. I doubt it's something major. And I wouldn't lease a Wrangler. The trade in is still good, so getting out of your purchase isn't going to hurt you. I am 3 years into my loan, owe $7K and it is still worth well over $20K with a lot of miles on it.
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:57 AM   #6
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I initially purchased a 18 JLU Sahara. It had the steering issue as well as a frame weld issue.

My dealership bought my Sahara back (not through FCA that takes much longer than a weekend) for what I paid for it, and sold me a 18 Rubicon. Only difference is a new loan at the bank and I paid a second round of TTL cash to avoid my payment going up, the dealership ate the rest of the difference.

10K on the Rubi and not a single issue to be had.

I dont know how true this is, but my dealership told me the issues with steering do not apply to the Rubicons since different parts are used on that model than the others. The frame weld issue was limited to a smaller run of vehicles and based on the VIN the Rubicon was not in that run.

I can imagine if you are building one the frame weld issue has been resolved so it would really just be steering. If you can verify what I was told, a Rubicon should have you avoiding those issues altogether.

All that said, I love my Wrangler and wouldn't trade it for anything other than a Gladiator... but that is a few years down the road when the diesels are out and have a few years on them
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Old 06-17-2019, 01:07 PM   #7
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I wouldn't be called a Jeep fanboy since I purchased my first one a few months ago. I too swore off Chrysler due to the worst experience in my life with a new 92 minivan. Yes, there are some various issues which I've been fortunate not to experience. Please notice the steering when you test drive - this is a truck and take it up to 70+mph speeds. Some people have had steering issues but realize this isn't a sports car so drive it and see if you like the steering.

What I like - I've been without a convertible for a few years and didn't want anything I'd have to crawl out of at my age. I like the multiple options for my soft top - sunrider, full down or safari mode. Plenty of room in the JLU and decent power. A ton of aftermarket items that will drain your pocket if you want.
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Old 06-17-2019, 05:51 PM   #8
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I read the original post. Right off the bat - to be clear I'm Not going to talk anybody In or Out of any decision and a Fanboy of anything I will never nor have I ever been.
That said and out of the way... NO Vehicle is perfect OR completely flawed.
Vehicles at their core are simply machines made by men and machines for the purpose of conveyance plain and simple.

The choice of a Jeep and further - a Wrangler is a choice born of differing and varying reasons unique to the individual. Yes, they still are just vehicles BUT arguably a Wrangler (to some ) is more than just that and for that reason No Person can or should attempt to convince anyone even someone that asks to be - convinced that the Wrangler is more than what it is.

I have had the pleasure of owning many many vehicles. I've owned many Wranglers, it's what I drive now.. I choose to do so.
I have had great experiences with a dozen Wranglers.

Somebody's "next" Wrangler (including me) could be a total nightmare but so could (fill in the blank).

It is a machine. It comes with a warranty. There are remedies IF it is less than expected. It's not very imortant in the grand scheme of things.

Get it. Enjoy it. Don't get it and wonder "what if" Choice is yours.
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:10 PM   #9
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Talk me in or out of my first Wrangler

Chrysler seems to be the worst of the big 3. After owning and driving many vehicles for 40 years I wanted to own a Jeep to see what the big fuss was about. I love my Jeep, do all my own routine maintenance, drive it very little (I have a car as well), modded the hell out of it (to me modding is a hobby so in that respect the jeep fits the bill quite well). Haven’t had any problems (only 22K miles) and hoping to keep it 10 to 15 more years, but that’s uncertain as Chrysler has a horrible spare parts reputation. I enjoy camping and hiking and the Jeep gets me to great spots without people to ruin the scenery. It’s my last Jeep and first and last Chrysler vehicle. Thinking about buying a Cadillac to replace my Audi.
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:10 PM   #10
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I love my wrangler recon but I would never ever recommend someone but a FCA product (I have owned 4 wranglers 2013, 2014, 2016 and now my 2018) and have been relatively lucky as far as warranty work goes. my next vehicle will not be a jeep.
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:21 PM   #11
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You're not going to get 350,000 miles out of a Jeep (most likely), but you'll also not get 300,000 smiles out of a chrysler minivan or any van (but you will your Jeep when it bites.


Leasing is a bad idea


A wrangler is not a vehicle like every other.. Have you driven one yet? I mean really driven one? Let's talk about that...


I don't know of another vehicle rented and taken offroad as much as a Jeep wrangler.. Their is a reason they are in the shop. It's not because of a badge that was 3D printed bearing the name JEEP. Its because they were beat on and returned wet.. Proof in point; My Jeep is under a build right now (I'll tell you more about that) So I rented one with my son this past weekend to keep a ride in a Jeep on fathers day tradition going.. I was told when I showed up that I needed to place a $1000 deposit down that would be returned after it comes back with no damage. When I asked about the $1000, I was told,"people come in from out of town and take them off-roading than return them all tore up." Immediately I thought, "damn!" Now I can't take it off-roading with my son.."lol That said, go rent a Sport for a weekend and see if you love it and go from there..


Okay, Let me bring this home: I had a budget of 25k (or more if I financed some) two months ago. I was looking at the JLU's and building one out was going to get me a nice rubicon. But then I'm driving a stockish Rubicon(that I just spent more for then I wanted too) around for a few years because I wouldn't budget more for a build. So I looked at used.. I found a spotless JKU RHR with very low miles for 33k. I financed 20K paid cash for the rest and decided to build right away.. 50K later I'm going to have a bad ass JKURHR with low miles and 300,000 smiles not counting those that enjoy my Jeep.


You only live once and if it's not going to hurt you or anyone else point in a safe direction and pull the trigger... you might just hit the place you been staring at for way too long.
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:22 PM   #12
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I love my wrangler recon but I would never ever recommend someone but a FCA product (I have owned 4 wranglers 2013, 2014, 2016 and now my 2018) and have been relatively lucky as far as warranty work goes. my next vehicle will not be a jeep.

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Old 06-17-2019, 07:35 PM   #13
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oh I would never lease one. add up what you will pay during the lease period then add that to the buy out and YIKES.
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:42 PM   #14
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I love my wrangler recon but I would never ever recommend someone but a FCA product (I have owned 4 wranglers 2013, 2014, 2016 and now my 2018) and have been relatively lucky as far as warranty work goes. my next vehicle will not be a jeep.
^^^X2..My next vehicle will not be a Jeep either.....
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:44 PM   #15
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^^^X2..My next vehicle will not be a Jeep either.....
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oh I would never lease one. add up what you will pay during the lease period then add that to the buy out and YIKES.

What is happening here?? What did I miss? If not a Jeep than what? Are you keeping your Jeeps and purchasing something else for other reasons? Will you still be off-roading?
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:07 PM   #16
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^^^X2..My next vehicle will not be a Jeep either.....

Me either.


When you have members of a forum for a specific vehicle telling you, "look, no vehicle is perfect..." you should be wary. The Wrangler is a deeply flawed vehicle. In some ways, you'll fall in love with it because it is.


I love the looks, the way there is nothing else on the road like it... So few vehicles have any "character" or "soul" today. If you love modifying your vehicle and making it uniquely your own, there are few vehicles that will satisfy you so well.

However, and this is anecdotal, but I hear these same comments reverberate through other owners and forum users: Chrysler's lack of quality has really turned a lot of people off. And in the case of your potential Jeep, when they start asking more than $50,000, it starts to seem absurd.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:20 PM   #17
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With that said, and I'm not trying to sound all doom and gloom, but maybe your reasons for buying a Wrangler align with mine:


-Excellent resale value, meaning that buying may make more sense to you than leasing.
-Great in snow.
-Easy to modify. If you want to stay stock, stock replacement parts are also cheaper for this same reason as others take stock parts off their Jeeps.

-Decent fuel economy and power. I average 21mpg in a very hilly area.
-If you want a vehicle with roll up windows, A/C, a manual transmission, cruise control, and only those options... Welp, I think the Wrangler is it
-A GREAT community.
-The Jeepwave!
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:25 PM   #18
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What is happening here?? What did I miss? If not a Jeep than what? Are you keeping your Jeeps and purchasing something else for other reasons? Will you still be off-roading?
I have done many of my bucket list jeep trails ie the rubicon trail, dusy ershim, Colorado trails a couple of times, Moab many times including again next week. I like all different kinds of vehicles and been jonsing for a ZR2 or ranger Raptor is supposed to come out next year. Heck who knows. I love my Rubicon Recon no doubt about it but I also am not married to it.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:42 PM   #19
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What is happening here?? What did I miss? If not a Jeep than what? Are you keeping your Jeeps and purchasing something else for other reasons? Will you still be off-roading?
I have the ZR2 in my sights, but not sure yet. My Son-in-Law has a 2019 ZR2. What I have seen of it, I really like. But I am going to drive it some more first.

I have owned Jeeps off and on since the 70's. They have never left me stranded. As for the new JL's, well let's just say that the verdict is still out. I think in my case, it is time for a change.......
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:57 PM   #20
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I have done many of my bucket list jeep trails ie the rubicon trail, dusy ershim, Colorado trails a couple of times, Moab many times including again next week. I like all different kinds of vehicles and been jonsing for a ZR2 or ranger Raptor is supposed to come out next year. Heck who knows. I love my Rubicon Recon no doubt about it but I also am not married to it.
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I have the ZR2 in my sights, but not sure yet. My Son-in-Law has a 2019 ZR2. What I have seen of it, I really like. But I am going to drive it some more first.

I have owned Jeeps off and on since the 70's. They have never left me stranded. As for the new JL's, well let's just say that the verdict is still out. I think in my case, it is time for a change.......

I've ventured away from Jeeps from time to time and I to appreciate other vehicles.. The only two vehicles I've missed were Jeeps and Audi's (also AWD). Heck I've had some great vehicles in my life, but nothing has ever given me the memories or smiles a Jeep has(as far as vehicles go).
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Old 06-18-2019, 07:48 AM
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Wow, great replies guys. Kind of what I was expecting. But as somebody put it here.... once they start pushing $50,000 and they really don't have the build quality of what $50,000 should be that does concern me. I mean it's no secret that Chrysler is the bottom of the big three and with my previous experience I am so gun-shy on this but I really love the Wrangler and I want to try one so I guess I just roll the dice like everybody else and maybe I'll have good luck. Will I be beating the living snot out of mine off-road? No. Will I be using it to plow and to get around in the winter and occasionally take off road? Yes. If I'm paying 50 Grand for a Rubicon I expect to get my 15 to 20 years out of it but will I like I have my Chevys? From what I'm hearing, no.... and this is my concern. I think 50k should get you at least 15 years if you take care of a vehicle.

I kind of wish some of you that stated that you would drift away from Jeeps would explain your reasoning why?

Nobody's put any real horror stories in here other than the frame situation which is obviously pretty major but pretty cool of your dealer to step up to the plate because I had the exact opposite with my Cherokee. My dealer were complete a holes and the main reason why.... long story short of it was that jeep was in an accident somewhere its first 70 miles most likely within the possession of that dealer but they did not fess up to that. Finally Chrysler stepped in and refunded my money but it took me 14 months of hard fighting. I don't expect that to happen with my local dealer they're good guys there and it's a real small town dealer not to mention I am going to order it if I'm getting unless they can locate the Rubi I'm looking for but I'm not going to make them chase it down until I'm ready to pull the trigger. Only reason why I even considered looking at the lease is I'm going through a divorce until that's final most likely later this year, I don't want to go purchase a Jeep LOL at that point I could just buy out the lease or refinance. I'll have to look at my options on that. Good news is the divorce is amicable so I don't see a big fight but at the same time I don't think she's going to be thrilled I just went out and bought a $50,000 Jeep. Affording it is not an issue I just don't need her coming back with the attitude all if you can afford a $50,000 Jeep you can afford to pay me more money lol

I really have to do something cuz my Tahoe is done unless I put some decent money into it and it's just a rot box I really don't want to pour a bunch of money into it. Needs a fuel line, exhaust and head gaskets. It just is not drivable right now and I'm on the fence with what I want to do here. And honestly all that would be a lot cheaper than a new Rubicon and for 50k I could probably make my two-door Tahoe look pretty freaking badass LOL but it's 1999 technology there's absolutely no frill to that truck at all and honestly, I've had it 20 years. I've got the bug for something new but I need something inclosed that I can haul product so I can't do a pick up otherwise I would absolutely be looking at them.

Somebody was asking me if I drove the Wrangler? I took a two-door out for about an hour and I took a four-door Sahara pretty loaded up out for a pretty long day. That truck was brand new dealer just let me take it for a few hours so I drove it down every crap Illinois road I could think of (plenty of them) and then took it down a brand new highway at 80 miles an hour just to see how I liked it. It's pretty much what I expected and pretty much rides nd drives similar my two-door Tahoe did. Maybe a little better actually but my Tahoe rode pretty good for a short wheelbase truck. I didn't mind the steering but it did seem pretty stiff. At a standstill, turning the wheel the power steering didn't feel very power steeringish for 2019 but that was a minor deal.... not to mention the wife's Impala had the electronics during which is like butter. But comparing it to a 2009 Chevy Express Cargo Van my cargo van turns easier. Couple other small little gripes I noticed but nothing major. Rear wiper motor was pretty loud which no big deal, and when you look in the mirror and you'll see all the wire dangling down for the rear defrost, washer wiper motor wires..... they could have clean that up a little bit but thats stupid crap....other than that I did enjoy the test drive and it was pretty much what I expected.

I really appreciate the feedback guys I'm just really on the fence with what I want to do and I'm sure I'll make a decision but I just really want to hear from guys that actually put some decent daily driving miles on them. It's so hard that I know this platform is fairly new. I hate being a guinea pig
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:25 AM   #22
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Like I said... No convincing either way.
Honestly, after reading your posts - I would Not recommend you own a Wrangler.
My .02. Worth every penny
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:16 AM   #23
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The use matters

I am not sure a Jeep is for you.
The average Jeeper does not use it as a work vehicle. To and from work yes, off-roading yes, even mall crawling yes. A modified signage board (many businesses modify them and paint them in to show off the company brand)
As a vehicle to haul products, needs to be dependable day after day and needs to secure your products there are better cheaper options.
Maybe the question is for you as to why you want the Jeep? Off-roading, modifying, driving top off? If yes to these then try it. If not get a gladiator a truck or a van.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:41 AM   #24
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I am a very new jeep owner "1 month this week to be exact" I ruminated for months trying to decide if I wanted to buy a jeep. In the end I took the plunge because of a few factors. I wanted a weekend / road trip 4x4 for going out into the desert to shoot photos and firearms, I wanted a vehicle I could cruise the mountain fire roads of AZ and NM, I wanted something I could customize and create the utility I needed and wanted. I wanted room to load my gear and have easy access to things from the divers seat while in motion.

I just took my first 1200 mile round trip road trip this past weekend and I realized I bought the perfect vehicle for Me. No regrets other than I should have made the jump years ago instead of trying to force my F150 to do things its not really good at.

My Rubi will more than likely never crawl rocks but she will be in sugar sand washes and snow / ice covered forest service roads. She will be at remote lakes camping or looking for Bigfoot. She will be at Dutch Brothers getting coffee. She will be on the highway taking me and the queen to Los Angeles for Dodger games a couple times a year. My Rubi drives like a block of 4 leggos on wheels but all Off road vehicles drive that way but she is comfortable and I am in love.

Don't over think it, I almost did and it would have been a huge mistake now that I own a Rubi.

My two cents.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:59 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scootinz View Post
If I'm paying 50 Grand for a Rubicon I expect to get my 15 to 20 years out of it but will I like I have my Chevys? From what I'm hearing, no.... and this is my concern. I think 50k should get you at least 15 years if you take care of a vehicle.
My major concern is lack of replacement parts. The JK has been out of production for a very short time and already the lead time is up to 1 year for an NSG370 transmission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scootinz View Post
I kind of wish some of you that stated that you would drift away from Jeeps would explain your reasoning why?
Everyone probably has a different reason, but I think in all cases it goes back to why own a Jeep in the first place. I don't wheel for the sake of wheeling, there has to be an end game for me or I don't go. The end game is exploring ghost towns and old mines, camping, hiking, and shooting. I go out for 5 days at a time and carry all my supplies with me. As I get older and into retirement I will be shifting to a more comfortable way of camping. Some form of RV, and towing an ATV on a trailer is a better option as I see it now.

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Originally Posted by Scootinz View Post
I don't think she's going to be thrilled I just went out and bought a $50,000 Jeep. Affording it is not an issue I just don't need her coming back with the attitude all if you can afford a $50,000 Jeep you can afford to pay me more money lol
$50K for a vehicle is not an unreasonable amount today, many vehicles are that and more. $50K for a Jeep seems a little unreasonable given what it is. I can spend $60K on an Audi and get much higher quality and about a decade ahead in technology. I would hope that the Jeep would have 4G connectivity and adaptive cruise control at a bare minimum. I paid $28.5K for my new JKU in 2014 because honestly that's all a Jeep was worth to me. Now, I did mod it with another $25K to $30K in parts. Modding is a hobby to me, something I enjoy and spend some of my free time doing. I would rather start with a $30K vehicle then assemble it the way I want still ending up at $50K+, but with a much more capable and better looking vehicle than the factory can produce. Now I understand many people don't enjoy modding and I get that. But, at some point going past a certain size tire (that size is debatable) is going to require it.
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Old 06-18-2019, 10:55 AM   #26
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Have you considered a lightly used JK Wrangler? Is there are reason you are looking at jumping in the deep end with a more expensive JL model?

You asked why some of us are drifting away from the Wrangler. I think I already mentioned this, but personally the price of a new one is eye watering and the quality isn't there. There are many people out there who bought a Wrangler because they are simple, affordable, tough (should be atleast). Some major issues for the JK include the factory limited slip differentials wearing out prematurely, oil consumption (especially on older models), pinging engines on regular gas, the "death shake", and more recently steering box and frame issues on JL's.

I purchased my 2010 for $18.5k three years ago with ~40K miles, I put about 15,000 miles a year on it and my reliability experience has been so-so. Replaced tie rods, steering stabilizer, EGR valve, tone wheel, two speed sensors, one oxygen sensor, two wheel bearings... Some of it is partly due to the poor shape of NY roads (I don't run oversized tires etc.). Your comment about the wiper motor wiring is indicative of Chrysler quality, e.g. sloppiness and bad perception.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:19 AM   #27
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The guys that said they might be giving Jeeps up have collectively been in Jeeps for more than 40 years and have done all the Jeeps things to do.. The bucket list is full now on to the next bucket..

20 years is possible if you put in the time. My first Jeep was a 1963 Jeep willies. I sold it in 1995 running better than I found it, but I had to put in the time.

Hands down, Jeeps get more dates. Sounds like you might be in the market for that..Ding! Ding! Ding! You just got your first smile and moneys worth And it's not the gold diggers that look for Jeep guys.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:20 AM   #28
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The only real downside is the price. You can get a lot more vehicle for $50k, if you aren't going to be offroading much at all. FCA is price gouging based on the Wrangler's popularity..............
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:01 PM   #29
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I am willing to live with the quirks of daily driving a Wrangler, but only a fairly heavily modded one. Stock Wranglers don't really do much for me and if I had to drive a stock Wrangler, I would look elsewhere. I love modded Wranglers. Nothing else out there really tempts me too much to go with another vehicle, but I have a short commute. If I did move on to something else, it would probably be the ZR2.

My 2015 has been extremely reliable (35,000 miles so far). Not one issue. Knock on wood.

My 2008 was generally reliable up until around 70,000 miles, then, had an engine oil burning issue, which took out the engine so I got rid of it. It also had some rusting issues that were very annoying.

The JL is too new to have real world reliability data, but you do have a warranty. There were enough changes from the JK to the JL to make me skeptical because first year new models tend to have some bugs that need to be worked out. My gut tells me the OP is probably not going to be happy with a JL, but who knows. In the end, reliability is a crapshoot.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:34 PM   #30
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I bought a brand new SRT Grand Cherokee off the showroom floor back in 2012. Worst vehicle I have ever owned. It was in the shop EVERY month for the time I owned it for one problem after another. Still have the service p/w for every visit. I never raced it, and it was bone stock. Swore off Jeep for life. Came across a '15 JKUR in Sunset Orange that the dealer had modded out. Took a chance and bought it. Only problem I ever had out of it was a faulty radiator thermostat. Great car. Decided to upgrade to an '18 JLUR, and so far, just as reliable (not to mention nicer all around) than my '15. I've owned too many makes/models of cars to remember. And I agree as stated earlier, this is not talk you into or out of a Jeep. But I've been very happy with mine, and I use it like a truck. I can haul 25 bags of mulch with the back seats down. More if the top is off. And I've taken this thing through off road courses I would never take a truck through. Good luck on your decision.
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