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Old 07-29-2017, 10:27 PM
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JL 2 Door

Got a few pics of a JL 2 door today. Several of them pulled into a local gas station. 3rd or 4th I've seen. Lot's of sightings in Metro Detroit.

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Old 07-30-2017, 01:45 PM   #2
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Cool Blizzard-Camoflage Paint

They call that paint : " Blizzard-Camoflage " ; you can sneak up in a blizzard . What did the Chrysler driver at the gas station tell you ?

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Old 07-30-2017, 04:12 PM
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They call that paint : " Blizzard-Camoflage " ; you can sneak up in a blizzard . What did the Chrysler driver at the gas station tell you ?
Something to the effect of "NO PICTURES" LOL. Damage was done by then, however.
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Old 07-30-2017, 04:30 PM   #4
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Something to the effect of "NO PICTURES" LOL. Damage was done by then, however.
considering there is no legal way to stop you from taking photos when it is in a public place LOL. Next time crawl underneath it. Was he getting gas or diesel LOL No that would be a good rumor to start.
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Old 07-31-2017, 07:31 PM   #5
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Hard to tell, but the front axle doesn't look like a 30 or 44.
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:07 PM   #6
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Good to see Jeep has dropped the OEM GY Wrangler SRA tires in favor of Michelin. Still not loving the flat windshield.
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:42 PM   #7
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What size are those tires?

And why is it running Michelin Defenders? I doubt those will be stock tires on any model.

OP: Are the original pictures in higher resolution? Are you able to read the tire size off of them?
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Old 08-02-2017, 11:09 AM   #8
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Those aren't Defenders. They are LTX MS or MS2. Judging by the type and size of the tires, I'd say this is a lower trim model. There is no reason these can't be stock tires. They have good road manners and are decent offroad and in snow. They might be an upgrade though.
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Old 08-02-2017, 02:16 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Redneck_Jedi View Post
Hard to tell, but the front axle doesn't look like a 30 or 44.
Actually, as mentioned in a previous mule/thread, the front axle (and accompanying rear) looks like it has a 6-bolt lower half like a Chrysler 9.25, however this is likely a Dana update built at their new Toledo plant specifically for the JL & JT.

The previous Dana with a 12-bolt pattern was the Dana 28 , it would be interesting if the re-awakened the x8 axle naming with a new Dana 48.

I would think the base JL gets a more pedestrian version, but the Rubicon/Recon & JT would get the new sturdier axle which is hopefully even more of an improvement over the current recon update.
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Old 08-02-2017, 08:34 PM
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What size are those tires?

And why is it running Michelin Defenders? I doubt those will be stock tires on any model.

OP: Are the original pictures in higher resolution? Are you able to read the tire size off of them?
Sorry for the delayed response. Yes, they are 245 75R17

A tag on the dashboard indicated they were doing fuel economy testing so I'd guess those are going to be production tires...?
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Old 08-03-2017, 04:10 PM   #11
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And why is it running Michelin Defenders? I doubt those will be stock tires on any model.
If Cwilli is correct and they become the standard, that would be a good thing as the base GY Wrangler SRAs are terrible, these are better in bad conditions, despite both being 'all-season' not 'all-weather', and their durability seems much higher too with 145,000KM/90K miles rating that would outlast many people's original-purchase Wrangler ownership.

This seems like a pretty good choice for the on-road-warriors that rarely see even a soft-road. I'd still prefer the GY W Adventure or even the SilentArmors I just put 17,000KMs on in July for my tarmac duties because I do see logging roads and mild trails on those overland treks... but these are a good 'entry level' tyre, and I think would have much better road manners than both the SRAs and the Duellers, especially over time, and in cooler weather.
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Old 08-06-2017, 12:40 AM   #12
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Sorry for the delayed response. Yes, they are 245 75R17

A tag on the dashboard indicated they were doing fuel economy testing so I'd guess those are going to be production tires...?
Oh no, that's terrible. I hope they go with a larger size stock.
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Old 08-07-2017, 12:16 PM   #13
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Cool Great post by GreatGrapeApe ... Thanks

Great post by GreatGrapeApe , except his thought that '90k tire miles will outlast most original Wrangler owners' ; They won't outlast me , because I'm going to be a lot higher than 90k miles . In fact , my Toyos are excellent , but when it gets time , maybe I'll upgrade to Michelins for the ride .
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:31 PM   #14
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Yeah I say most, because let's be realistic, most 'original owners' are gonna swap out at warranty, heck even I'm guilty of that after the extended warranty.

There will be many who have 100K+ Wranglers, but they are still in the minority... a BIG minority, but like somewhere in the 20-30% range is my guess.

Heck I would think most of the big mileage Wranglers are ones that started their first 30-50,000 with someone and then it did it's next 100,000+ with the second owner / entusiast who knew how to keep her running and make the most of her afterwards.
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:54 AM   #15
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If Cwilli is correct and they become the standard, that would be a good thing as the base GY Wrangler SRAs are terrible, these are better in bad conditions, despite both being 'all-season' not 'all-weather', and their durability seems much higher too with 145,000KM/90K miles rating that would outlast many people's original-purchase Wrangler ownership.
Actually, these tires are LTX M/S2 (you can tell by the 4th picture in the first post). Michelin only warranties them for 70k miles. That's not to say they won't see 90k miles, but they only guarantee 70k.

The true Michelin Defenders are warrantied for 90k, but those are Passenger Car/Minivan tires, whereas the LTX M/S2 are light truck tires. That said, the Wrangler will perform better with the LTX M/S2.

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This seems like a pretty good choice for the on-road-warriors that rarely see even a soft-road. I'd still prefer the GY W Adventure or even the SilentArmors I just put 17,000KMs on in July for my tarmac duties because I do see logging roads and mild trails on those overland treks... but these are a good 'entry level' tyre, and I think would have much better road manners than both the SRAs and the Duellers, especially over time, and in cooler weather.
On Tire Rack, the LTX M/S2 are rated #4 out of 36 for highway all seasons. Compare that to the Wrangler ST (which is the stock tire on a base JK Sport) which is #36 out of 36 in the same category. This is a huge upgrade. The LTX M/S2 are about as close to a off-road/winter tire that you can get with an all season tire. Very good choice.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...del=LTX+M%2FS2
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Old 08-13-2017, 03:27 PM   #16
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Actually, these tires are LTX M/S2 (you can tell by the 4th picture in the first post). Michelin only warranties them for 70k miles. That's not to say they won't see 90k miles, but they only guarantee 70k.
Ok, was just going off the Defender description on their website here which says 140,000KMs, didn't know there was a sub-section for the M/S2, which looking deeper now it's 115,000KMs so we get an extra 1,875 miles over Americans, WooHoo !!

Quote:
The true Michelin Defenders are warrantied for 90k, but those are Passenger Car/Minivan tires, whereas the LTX M/S2 are light truck tires. That said, the Wrangler will perform better with the LTX M/S2.
Yeah, not surprised as the ST and SRAs are truly mediocre tyres. Hopefully this will make them oess squirrely for new-to-wrangler owners who aren't used to the short wheel base, or for whom this is their first vehicle.

Also I don't think they are sticking with 16" anymore partly to allow for improved brakes like the BigBrakeKit which doesn't fit in 16", so I think the 17" SRA are what they are technically replacing as the base now.
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:58 AM   #17
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Still not loving the flat windshield.
What do you mean by 'flat windshield'?
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Old 08-15-2017, 02:02 PM   #18
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What do you mean by 'flat windshield'?
JK curves back towards the A pillars ever so slightly as most modern windshields do (for obvious aerodynamic reasons). The JL appears to be flat with little to no such curve.

Should look better for the less than 1% who fold down the windshields as it will now lay flat against the hood.
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Old 08-15-2017, 02:21 PM   #19
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JK curves back towards the A pillars ever so slightly as most modern windshields do (for obvious aerodynamic reasons). The JL appears to be flat with little to no such curve.

Should look better for the less than 1% who fold down the windshields as it will now lay flat against the hood.
The whole point of the windshield change was to increase gas mileage. If a "curved" windshield improved aerodynamics, dont you think they would have left it curved AND reduced it's deflection angle?
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Old 08-15-2017, 02:28 PM   #20
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That front lower air dam.... YUK. Just a little lower and it could be a squeegee for the road.
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Old 08-16-2017, 01:33 AM   #21
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The whole point of the windshield change was to increase gas mileage. If a "curved" windshield improved aerodynamics, dont you think they would have left it curved AND reduced it's deflection angle?
No, because they're addressing 2 issues (and their sub-issues) at once.

Improve Aero + Improve Windshield down experience.

They can accomplish both by increaseing the rake of the windshield which is more efective than that very VERY slight curve of the JK windshield, yet making the windshield flater (which may improve aero with top down) so that when it's down it lays flatter on the new flatter hood which doesn't appear to slope down like the JK hood. That would mean a curve like that in the JK windshield would be more noticeable as it is no longer tilted down out of the field of view, but instead obstucting it more.

Also if they are making the two pieces meet on a common structure like the A-pillar, it likely is easier and less leak-prone to make them straight rather than curved.

They likely coulda made it more aerodynamic by having a fixed windshield, but where's the fun in that?
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Old 08-16-2017, 08:30 AM   #22
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I"m really interested in what all engine options are in the 2 door. I can see that little zippy 4 cylinder being awesome.
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Old 08-16-2017, 04:55 PM   #23
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That front lower air dam.... YUK. Just a little lower and it could be a squeegee for the road.
That's a bit of an over exaggeration. For one, there are straps attached to the air dam that are holding the camo. The straps look like that are pulling the air dam forward and down from its natural position. Second, the bottom of the air dam is still above the diff, so no clearance is lost. If you want to see a road squeegee, look no further than the Chevy Colorado.
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Old 08-16-2017, 09:39 PM   #24
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No, because they addressing 2 issues (and their sub-issues) at once.

Improve Aero + Improve Windshield down experience.

They can accomplish both by increaseing the rake of the windshield which is more efective than that very VERY slight curve of the JK windshield, yet making the windshield flater (which may improve aero with top down) so that when it's down it lays flatter on the new flatter hood which doesn't appear to slope down like the JK hood. That would mean a curve like that in the JK windshield would be more noticeable as it is no longer tilted down out of the field of view, but instead obstucting it more.

Also if they are making the two pieces meet on a common structure like the A-pillar, it likely is easier and less leak-prone to make them straight rather than curved.

They likely coulda made it more aerodynamic by having a fixed windshield, but where's the fun in that?
Exactly! And this will bring back one of the lost true "Jeep experiences"!
Flat hood + flat windshield, plus easily foldable.

And when it will easily foldable and will lie flat on the hood, many many more people than 1% will fold it! Still back in the early 90s most the people on the trails had the windshield down.
With the current JK they just retained the theoretical possibility to fold it but in reality they made it for people almost impossible to fold it, with having to remove even part of the front roll cage. And if you fold it on the current JK the aerodynamics goes totally to hell with the curve of the windshield opposed to the curve of the hood.
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Old 08-16-2017, 10:05 PM   #25
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I'll bet when the JL is released we'll find it's not any easier to fold the front window than in the JK. Jeep knows almost nobody is going to do this now and won't make that change for a few forum diehards when the vast majority of future Jeep owners will be using these as daily drivers and looking for a "cute-ute".
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Old 08-16-2017, 11:12 PM   #26
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I'll bet when the JL is released we'll find it's not any easier to fold the front window than in the JK. Jeep knows almost nobody is going to do this now and won't make that change for a few forum diehards when the vast majority of future Jeep owners will be using these as daily drivers and looking for a "cute-ute".
Then they should have turned the wrangler into a modern SUV long ago. And it was actually on the agenda but they did not. And they were wise in my opinion.
Most of daily drivers need low gears amd lockers and mud terrain tires even less the foldable wind shield but... count all the rubicons out there.
I myself use a wramgler 2Dr as my DD but I do not hesitate going on the trails or beach, taking doors off on weekend, top down. And I would be happy to fold my windshield especially on the beach and turn my jeep into a dune buggy.


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