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-   -   4.0 Tick/Seafoam and nothing (https://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/4-0-tick-seafoam-and-nothing-1166369.html)

kybuckeye 03-24-2015 10:52 AM

4.0 Tick/Seafoam and nothing
 
Ive got an 2003 4.0 TJ and like many, have the dreaded "Tick". Like many it only occurs on cold mornings and goes away as the motor warms up. Along with the tick, it also shows a slight loss of power until it warms up as well. After hours of searching the forums and reading similar problems I believed it was the common cracked exhaust manifold. I decided to do the Seafoam test and gave it a shot this morning.

When I pulled the Jeep out of the shop, so as not smoke out the building, I did not hear the tick. I gave it the Seafoam anyway, believing that the smoke would at least find somewhere to escape. To my surprise, nothing(under the hood anyway). Question is, should I try it again when the tick is present or did I just eliminate the exhaust manifold as the cause?

coltonjohngray 03-24-2015 10:27 PM

I have never ran into this problem before but wouldnt you be able to visually see the crack. And if it goes away could it just be a lifter?

kybuckeye 03-25-2015 08:04 AM

In my research, both a lifter and cracked exhaust manifold have been listed as causes. Theory being the metal expands on the manifold( closing the crack) and oil pressure rising( quieting the lifter). Im leaning toward lifter now. I was just wondering if the lack of tick before putting the Seafoam in makes a difference on the outcome of the test.

Ravensjeep 03-25-2015 09:57 AM

I have that same tick, I was going to try to switch to a full synthetic oil and higher grade oil filter and see how it helps. My thinking is the synthetic oil won't get at thick in the cold weather and get to the top of the engine with more eaze. If not I'll try the seafoam trick you just did. Imo I think you eliminated the exhaust manifold with not seeing smoke under the hood with the seafoam

coltonjohngray 03-25-2015 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravensjeep (Post 17939545)
I have that same tick, I was going to try to switch to a full synthetic oil and higher grade oil filter and see how it helps. My thinking is the synthetic oil won't get at thick in the cold weather and get to the top of the engine with more eaze. If not I'll try the seafoam trick you just did. Imo I think you eliminated the exhaust manifold with not seeing smoke under the hood with the seafoam

I have a slight lifter tick on my 4.0 and I started running Mobile 1 high mileage along with a Mobil 1 filter and it as disappeared mostly.

kybuckeye 03-25-2015 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coltonjohngray (Post 17942601)
I have a slight lifter tick on my 4.0 and I started running Mobile 1 high mileage along with a Mobil 1 filter and it as disappeared mostly.

Ill give that a try the next time I change my oil. Of course now its starting to get warm out and I might not know if it works till next fall.

bigman2x4x8 03-25-2015 04:33 PM

I have had AMC cars and trucks and the 258's which the 4.0 was built off of and they all had lifter noise at start up once they got miles on them. Thru the years at our service station we tried Winns Friction Prof. STP and bout all the different types of oil additives that have been on the market. You would stop it with one and then the next customers car it would not work on. I think the ticking at start up is a part of a AMC engine. Just a thought and hope it helps.

Ravensjeep 03-25-2015 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coltonjohngray (Post 17942601)
I have a slight lifter tick on my 4.0 and I started running Mobile 1 high mileage along with a Mobil 1 filter and it as disappeared mostly.

This is exactly what I want to hear! Can't wait to try

MN4x4 03-27-2015 12:59 PM

Marvel mystery oil stopped my lifter tick.
Mine was ticking for 30 seconds when cold

HotTotty 03-29-2015 11:11 AM

The tick is probably a lifter. Marvel mystery oil helped mine but it would still occur sometimes. I've found the Lucas oil additive helped the most as far as oil additives go.

ADee1 03-29-2015 11:32 AM

I'd dose it with Marvel Oil, if its dirt that will clean it up. If its a mechanical part that's bad it will do nothing.

kybuckeye 03-29-2015 03:16 PM

Ill give the MMO a shot. If that dont work ill try the synthetic oil. If that dont work I suppose ill live with it like most everybody else.

Digger84 03-29-2015 04:38 PM

Is the tick at 1/2 rpm frequency or at rpm frequency

Lifter is 1/2 frequency while piston skirt is at rpm frequency

AirForceOne 03-29-2015 06:26 PM

MMO silenced mine!

Stankgearoil 03-29-2015 08:11 PM

MMO helped my 4.0, but frequent changes with a quality synthetic (PP has a good dose of Calcium as well), and a FL-400s (a good thread on this on JF) cured it for good. Had temps in the negative this winter. Not a tick since. Helped in my CJ's 258 too.

kybuckeye 03-29-2015 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digger84 (Post 18048209)
Is the tick at 1/2 rpm frequency or at rpm frequency Lifter is 1/2 frequency while piston skirt is at rpm frequency

What do you mean by RPM freq? Can you explain a little more?

kybuckeye 03-29-2015 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stankgearoil (Post 18052593)
mmo helped my 4.0, but frequent changes with a quality synthetic (pp has a good dose of calcium as well), and a fl-400s (a good thread on this on jf) cured it for good. Had temps in the negative this winter. Not a tick since. Helped in my cj's 258 too.

"pp"?

Stankgearoil 03-29-2015 09:29 PM

Sorry. Pennzoil Platinum. FL400s is filter designation.

kybuckeye 03-29-2015 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stankgearoil (Post 18054809)
Sorry. Pennzoil Platinum. FL400s is filter designation.

Thanks. I was figuring the first P was Pennzoil, but was lost on the second.

foco 03-29-2015 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kybuckeye (Post 18054289)
What do you mean by RPM freq? Can you explain a little more?

Well, I think he means that since a lifter is only called into action during a phase of the combustion process, you should hear a ticking at some fraction of your engine RPM.

I'm not sure if it's quite 1/2; I would think more like 1/4 but either way, a lifter will tick slower than a piston skirt.

kybuckeye 03-30-2015 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foco (Post 18057185)
Well, I think he means that since a lifter is only called into action during a phase of the combustion process, you should hear a ticking at some fraction of your engine RPM. I'm not sure if it's quite 1/2; I would think more like 1/4 but either way, a lifter will tick slower than a piston skirt.

Ill have to see if I can determine that, however it seems to be cold weather related. I haven't heard it for a week now that its starting to warm up.

DP40 03-30-2015 09:55 AM

Is it lifters or is it a loose rocker arm. I would attempt to pull the valve cover, remove the rocker arms one at a time and inspect them. Also take a piece of glass like a mirror and roll your push rods to see if any may have a light bend in them. If all is good then reinstall and torque your rocker arms down to 21ft lbs. Its not that difficult of a process. I did it to a friends jeep and it took away the noise issue he had.

kybuckeye 03-30-2015 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DP40 (Post 18062905)
Is it lifters or is it a loose rocker arm. I would attempt to pull the valve cover, remove the rocker arms one at a time and inspect them. Also take a piece of glass like a mirror and roll your push rods to see if any may have a light bend in them. If all is good then reinstall and torque your rocker arms down to 21ft lbs. Its not that difficult of a process. I did it to a friends jeep and it took away the noise issue he had.

Did it just end up being a loose rocker arm? And was his also only a cold weather issue?

jbotelho15 03-30-2015 07:05 PM

I had the same issue MMO does help but all it does mostly is thin the oil if you're far from a change use it but if you're close to a change try a thinner oil my Jeep loves the thinner stuff. When I first got it I ran 10w40 and felt it sluggish and extremely loud. 10w30 Defy with mmo was alot better. Now I use 5w30 and the Jeep loves it. Plus you say its good after its warmed up, chances are the oil is too thick at start up and takes a while to properly lubricate everything.

I'm part of an oil forum as well and I can tell you most noisey Jeep 4.0's on there like Pennzoil Yellow Bottle 5w30 or 10w30 (I would use 5w30 in your case) both oils are the same once warm the 5w30 just starts off thinner than the 10w30 which you want. This is one of the reasons many new cars use 5w30 or even 5w20. Another fine choice is Pennzoil High Mileage 5w30 its the same formula but slightly thicker and has gasket conditioners in it to help prevent leaks. This and the oil filter I noticed has some influence, my Jeep did not like fram orange can but likes K&N and Royal Purple filters (my 1st choice is rp) they filter better because they use better filtering media and have valves that keep the filter always full with oil on start up. Give it a try next change. :thumb:

If you want to check out some of this stuff yourself, bobistheoilguy.com

kybuckeye 03-30-2015 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbotelho15 (Post 18075265)
I had the same issue MMO does help but all it does mostly is thin the oil if you're far from a change use it but if you're close to a change try a thinner oil my Jeep loves the thinner stuff. When I first got it I ran 10w40 and felt it sluggish and extremely loud. 10w30 Defy with mmo was alot better. Now I use 5w30 and the Jeep loves it. Plus you say its good after its warmed up, chances are the oil is too thick at start up and takes a while to properly lubricate everything.

I'm part of an oil forum as well and I can tell you most noisey Jeep 4.0's on there like Pennzoil Yellow Bottle 5w30 or 10w30 (I would use 5w30 in your case) both oils are the same once warm the 5w30 just starts off thinner than the 10w30 which you want. This is one of the reasons many new cars use 5w30 or even 5w20. Another fine choice is Pennzoil High Mileage 5w30 its the same formula but slightly thicker and has gasket conditioners in it to help prevent leaks. This and the oil filter I noticed has some influence, my Jeep did not like fram orange can but likes K&N and Royal Purple filters (my 1st choice is rp) they filter better because they use better filtering media and have valves that keep the filter always full with oil on start up. Give it a try next change. :thumb:

If you want to check out some of this stuff yourself, bobistheoilguy.com

In my research on this topic I found several people saying their Jeeps did not like Fram filters, which is what I have currently. Ive never run 5W30. Between you and everybody else that posted with possible remedies, it looks like ive got some experimenting to do. Thanks for the info.

RavenTJ 03-30-2015 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravensjeep (Post 17939545)
I have that same tick, I was going to try to switch to a full synthetic oil and higher grade oil filter and see how it helps. My thinking is the synthetic oil won't get at thick in the cold weather and get to the top of the engine with more eaze. If not I'll try the seafoam trick you just did. Imo I think you eliminated the exhaust manifold with not seeing smoke under the hood with the seafoam

Synthetic 10w-30 has the same viscosity as regular 10w-30, meaning it will be the same thickness as any other oil with the same viscosity. If you're thinking you may have a lifter noise, try a higher weight oil like 15w-40 and see what happens.

I also put 6 pistons in a 4.0 that had 3 cracked skirts, and it rattled like crazy.

Dewcon4414 03-31-2015 10:54 AM

Sounds like lack of lub to me maybe the oil pump isnt doing its job or it could just be a lifter adjustment.


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