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-   -   Block heater recommended? (https://www.wranglerforum.com/f290/block-heater-recommended-1363737.html)

DylanYJRyder 08-03-2015 10:19 PM

Block heater recommended?
 
I just moved from the mountains of VA to Great Falls, Montana. It got cold where I used to live,last winter it hit negatives and the jeep started fine, but here is gonna hit well below zero, is a block heater recommended? Or do you think it'd start just fine?

mijeeper80 08-03-2015 10:26 PM

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It was well below zero here last winter a lot and I have no garage at my house and my yj started just fine, much to my shugrin because that ment I got to go to work and work outside in that well below zero crap! Best thing I could recommend is making sure you got a new battery come winter.

DylanYJRyder 08-04-2015 12:02 AM

Thank you!

Y-Yes 08-05-2015 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mijeeper80 (Post 20618273)
It was well below zero here last winter a lot and I have no garage at my house and my yj started just fine, much to my shugrin because that ment I got to go to work and work outside in that well below zero crap! Best thing I could recommend is making sure you got a new battery come winter.

mijeeper80,

Which engine do you have?

And is it carbed or EFI?

Thanks much.

Y-Yes

mijeeper80 08-05-2015 11:36 AM

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2.5 efi

Y-Yes 08-05-2015 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mijeeper80 (Post 20649025)
2.5 efi

Gracias.

BlakeG881 08-05-2015 02:07 PM

i think you will be ok, i went to college in vermont spent over 4yrs up there during winter months. I only ever had problems starting it one time, it was 7:30am and still about -20 haha. never had any other cold related problems up there besides the hard doors having crappy seals.

Tom95YJ 08-05-2015 03:24 PM

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I use a coolant type heater that splices in the lower hose. Works great in the winter for instant heat

mijeeper80 08-05-2015 05:02 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom95YJ (Post 20652809)
I use a coolant type heater that splices in the lower hose. Works great in the winter for instant heat

now that sounds cool! Do tell!!!

Tom95YJ 08-05-2015 06:25 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mijeeper80 (Post 20654418)
now that sounds cool! Do tell!!!

It's called a Kats engine coolant heater

All auto stores sell them for about 30 bucks

mijeeper80 08-05-2015 07:02 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom95YJ (Post 20655778)
It's called a Kats engine coolant heater All auto stores sell them for about 30 bucks

that is something I will look into, thank you

ShayneO 08-05-2015 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom95YJ (Post 20652809)
I use a coolant type heater that splices in the lower hose. Works great in the winter for instant heat

you're exactly right, easy to install and heat right away

Y-Yes 08-06-2015 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom95YJ (Post 20655778)
It's called a Kats engine coolant heater

All auto stores sell them for about 30 bucks

I'm interested in a block heater for two reasons:

1. My ("new" to me) '89 YJ seems to be in need of a carb cleaning, and exhibits exaggerated warm-up times, of like 20 min. Since I may not get around to that job before winter (and won't be driving the Jeep much--just plowing our own place, occasionally), I'd like to have some "insurance" re: cold weather startups, the few times I'll need it to plow.

2. I LOVE the idea that the internal combustion engine isn't going from -degrees F, to the 2,300F (of the "flame front") instantly. In other words, a GOOD block heater could raise (much of the engine) a significant number of degrees, making less thermal shock/wear upon startup. (I've read the most wear, generally-speaking, comes at startup, when oil is cold and not circulating).

Does that Katz, in-line heater have an internal pump, or does it simply rely on convection, to circulate the heat?

And if the Jeep's thermostat is CLOSED (i.e., it's normal position, when engine is cold, right?) how can the Katz-style heater circulate warm coolant throughout the entire block, even with a pump? (Not that anyone in this thread claimed it could--I'd just like the idea of being able to partially warm up the entire engine, first, if possible.

I've had block heaters on (non-Jeeps) that went into one of the mis-named "freeze plugs" in the block, and looked like a small "water heater-style" heating element. So, at least that was warming the coolant within the engine block itself, not out in the hoses, or in the heater core--which I admit is a nice advantage for the occupants, but perhaps less-so for the engine, than the in-block heater I'm discussing.

The problem one of with the "in-block" heaters I had is it caused the "freeze plug" it replaced to begin leaking. Happily, I caught it in time, carefully refilled (the running) engine, and limped home.

Does anyone have any experience with the type of magnetic block heaters that supposedly stick to your oil pan, and heat the oil sump, via convection through the pan itself?

To me, the in-block, "water heater-style" heating element seems to be the most desirable, the risk of leaks being it's biggest potential drawback.

Opinions welcome.

Y-Yes

ShayneO 08-06-2015 08:33 AM

Living in Mn(-10 to -30 for days), I've used all three. The block heater was on a vehicle I purchased and it developed a leak. The "coolant" heater worked great as does the magnetic oil pan heater. The draw back is the daily putting it off and on. You have to crawl under to put it on, but I got to the point of just jerking it off in the morning lol. Good luck

MudMagnetYJ 12-18-2015 05:10 PM

Does anybody have a specific part number? I see three at AutoZone, 16500, 14600, 14700. I guess I could just measure my hose size and buy the closest one, but I don't think they're available at stores near me.

IRQ 12-18-2015 05:41 PM

Lived in northern MN for 20 + years, oil pan heater worked fine for my Grand Wagoneer, there are many sizes to choose from.. this is what I used http://www.amazon.com/Kats-1153-Hand...K8E4FDVJRCARM4
I wished I had got one of the larger ones, but it always was enough to get her started.

MudMagnetYJ 12-18-2015 09:00 PM

Do you get nearly instant heat? I plan on using mine as a way to keep the Jeep warm without running it for 15 minutes. The temperature doesn't get low enough to give it trouble starting.

IRQ 12-18-2015 10:06 PM

No it helps the engine start/turnover better in cold weather, its pretty much the function of these types of products.

It may assist in what your after, but instant heat.. doubt it

Give this a read http://brokensecrets.com/2010/02/24/...car-up-faster/

MudMagnetYJ 12-19-2015 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRQ (Post 23061722)
No it helps the engine start/turnover better in cold weather, its pretty much the function of these types of products.

It may assist in what your after, but instant heat.. doubt it

Give this a read Warm Your Car Up Faster | Broken Secrets

Interesting, that makes perfect sense. Winters in Southwest Ohio only reach negatives at the peak of winter, but I'd rather drive in a warm Jeep than a cold Jeep, without having it run for awhile. If I need to push it turning out of my neighborhood, I'd rather everything be at operating temperature.

I'm not really expecting instant heat, but at least have the engine register or almost register on the gauge (100*F+) within a few minutes of running.

I was at first thinking about the heater that went inside the freeze plug holes, but heard that it causes too many leaks. I like the inline coolant heater, as they're only $25 and my dad said that his lasted two seasons, but I'd rather that the correct size exist before I slice open my radiator hose. I'll be replacing the radiator and flushing the coolant and radiator core in the next month, so I'd like to install a coolant heater at that time.

I saw a YouTube video where a guy had a battery wrap heater and a silicone oil pan heater. His oil temperature was at 50*F while the outside temp was closing in on zero. That's not bad at all, it gives the engine the initial heat jump and keeps everything from getting too brittle.

IRQ 12-19-2015 01:22 AM

Probably in an area that doesn't reach below zero, it will indeed assist in the ability to have heat somewhat quicker.

I just used them so my Jeep would start at -40 :) ...there were times though when the temp hit -100 with the windchill, and many would take blankets to cover our engines, and use a separate blanket to cover our windshields so we didn't have to scrape for 30 minutes

I knew a guy who used a blow torch with a deep pan over it that he used under his oil pan.. worked great!

Just be glad you don't live Alaska and have your tires freeze.. "square tires"

demarpaint 12-19-2015 06:22 AM

I have block heaters and oil pan heaters. Given a choice IMO an oil pan heater is better for cold starts and the engine, and a block heater is better for getting heat a bit faster. I use both in one vehicle.

An oil pan heater is much easier to install. It also warms the coolant a bit too, since it is installed on the lowest point of the engine, the oil pan, and heat rises. It makes a big difference when temps really drop. Check out Wolverine Oil Pan Heaters website. The 250W unit is the way to go. If you're really OCD and live where it's very cold you can put one on your transmission pan as well. They also have battery warmers too. Their CS is great, and if you have any questions they're very knowledgeable and helpful.

Keep in mind a block heater can cause leaks as someone already mentioned.

Tom95YJ 12-19-2015 11:06 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MudMagnetYJ (Post 23063010)
Interesting, that makes perfect sense. Winters in Southwest Ohio only reach negatives at the peak of winter, but I'd rather drive in a warm Jeep than a cold Jeep, without having it run for awhile. If I need to push it turning out of my neighborhood, I'd rather everything be at operating temperature. I'm not really expecting instant heat, but at least have the engine register or almost register on the gauge (100*F+) within a few minutes of running. I was at first thinking about the heater that went inside the freeze plug holes, but heard that it causes too many leaks. I like the inline coolant heater, as they're only $25 and my dad said that his lasted two seasons, but I'd rather that the correct size exist before I slice open my radiator hose. I'll be replacing the radiator and flushing the coolant and radiator core in the next month, so I'd like to install a coolant heater at that time. I saw a YouTube video where a guy had a battery wrap heater and a silicone oil pan heater. His oil temperature was at 50*F while the outside temp was closing in on zero. That's not bad at all, it gives the engine the initial heat jump and keeps everything from getting too brittle.

I run a coolant type that splices in the hoses for my YJ its been on for 3 years. Works great I love the almost instant scorching hot heat

MudMagnetYJ 12-19-2015 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom95YJ (Post 23066538)
I run a coolant type that splices in the hoses for my YJ its been on for 3 years. Works great I love the almost instant scorching hot heat

Is there a chance you know which part it was? The ones I have found don't say which size hose it's for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by demarpaint (Post 23064026)
I have block heaters and oil pan heaters. Given a choice IMO an oil pan heater is better for cold starts and the engine, and a block heater is better for getting heat a bit faster. I use both in one vehicle.

I think I'll do the inline coolant heater for now, since I just ordered my radiator so the coolant will be out anyway, and see how that goes. I'll get an oil pan heater if I have extra money and it has trouble starting. Sounds like a good gift idea. Thanks for the input, I'm in the process of winterizing. We just had t shirt and jeans weather last week, and hat and glove weather yesterday, so it's unpredictable.

ADee1 12-19-2015 01:12 PM

I bought a used PU with a heater installed in a radiator hose, I took it out after it started leaking about 6 months after I bought the truck. I installed a pan heater, way better for cold starts than the heater in the hose was. No worries about leaks either. if its fast heat you are after the hose heater is better. If its better cold oil flow for a faster easier start and cutting down on engine wear nothing beats an oil pan warmer.

MudMagnetYJ 12-19-2015 05:57 PM

I bought an inline heater from AutoZone for $25, part number 14600. They had four different sizes, and were not labelled for the correct size.

According to the lower radiator hose they had in stock, I have a 1 1/2 inch inner diameter hose, so I got the heater with a 1 1/2 inch outer diameter.

I'll let you know how it fits. It looks very durable. Only problem is the short cord, but I'll need an extension cord anyways.

ADee1 12-19-2015 06:44 PM

It should work OK, just look for leaks often.

MudMagnetYJ 12-21-2015 02:47 PM

It was a breeze to install. All I had to do was drain the coolant, use a utility knife (with a new blade) to cut the hose, and in it went.

Here is a guide for anybody looking for one. I found four part numbers with different diameters. AutoZone has them for $25 each, but no diameters. Amazon has them for $40 with diameters.

When you look for one, know the INSIDE DIAMETER of your lower radiator hose, or whatever hose you're installing it on. Then, measure the OUTSIDE DIAMETER of the heater, including the raised ring around it. These numbers should match. To find my inside hose diameter, I just looked up the part at the auto store and found the inside diameter.

Kat's Lower Radiator Hose Heater

14500 - 1.25" diameter
14600 - 1.5" diameter
14700 - 1.75" diameter
14800 - 2.0" diameter

Y-Yes 02-03-2016 05:36 AM

Great thread, and I don't feel like a "high-jacker," since we're discussing a number of engine "pre-heaters."

However (at the risk of repeating myself, but to save typing, because I'm LAZY--LOL) here were a couple of questions that I'd like to re-ask, as they seem to have gotten missed, given all the good, healthy debate:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"2. ....Does that Katz, in-line heater have an internal pump, or does it simply rely on convection, to circulate the heat?

And if the Jeep's thermostat is CLOSED (i.e., it's normal position, when engine is cold, right?) how can the Katz-style heater circulate warm coolant throughout the entire block, even with (an electric) pump (which I doubt it has)? (Not that anyone in this thread claimed it could--I'd just like the idea of being able to partially warm up the entire engine, first, if possible.

I've had block heaters on (non-Jeeps) that went into one of the mis-named "freeze plugs" in the block, and looked like a small "water heater-style" heating element. So, at least that was warming the coolant within the engine block itself, not out in the hoses, or in the heater core--which I admit is a nice advantage for the passengers, but perhaps less-so for the engine, than the in-block heater I'm discussing.

The problem with one of the "in-block" heaters I had is it caused the "freeze plug" it replaced to begin leaking. Happily, I caught it in time, carefully refilled (the running) engine, and limped home."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That said, I'd like to freely acknowledge that the point made (in bold red, below) by ADee1 had completely escaped my notice, despite my lifelong automotive passions--to wit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADee1
I bought a used PU with a heater installed in a radiator hose, I took it out after it started leaking about 6 months after I bought the truck. I installed a pan heater, way better for cold starts than the heater in the hose was. No worries about leaks either. if its fast heat you are after the hose heater is better. If its better cold oil flow for a faster easier start and cutting down on engine wear nothing beats an oil pan warmer.

I'm actually embarrassed to admit I'd never considered the (perhaps MOST important?) benefit of an oil pan heater, as so eloquently described by ADee1, above.

However, I remain concerned about (cold) piston/cylinder fitment, and, thus, it seems to me that BOTH a magnetic, oil-pan heater AND and internal, engine block-water (heater) style, block heater, would be the best setup.

But can ANYbody please explain to me how the "Katz-style," i.e., in-line, heater-hose style of *cough* BLOCK heater, can possibly heat more than the passengner-compartment's HEATER CORE, when the engine's THERMOSTAT IS CLOSED, as it would be in cold temps, with the engine sitting, overnight?

IOW, it seems like the in(hose)line, "Katz-style" heater can ONLY heat the water in the coolant lines running to the heater core--or is the argument that the "Katz-style" heater is SO hot that it actually causes the engines THERMOSTAT to OPEN, allowing THERMOSPYHONING to occur, i.e., the natural process of heat cycling through an engine, that the early models of Ford Model T's used? (The early "T's" had NO water pump, and relied on the thermosyphoning princple, with decent results, obviously, though Henry later added a waterpump).

My point is--IMO, a "Katz-style", in-line heater--especially if it has no built-in water pump (a question no one has yet addressed--is ONLY going to heat the water in the Passenger's HEATER CORE), which is [physically] HIGHER than the Katz heater) and NOT heat the water in (much of) the engine block, for two reasons:

1. Much of the lower block is BELOW the typical location of a "Katz-style" heater, and;

2. THE THERMOSTAT ON A COLD ENGINE IS CLOSED, meaning there CAN BE NO HOT/WARM WATER CIRCULATING INSIDE THE ENGINE'S WATER JACKETS.

ALL of which makes me think the Katz-style heater presents a warm passenger compartment, but an (initially) cooler engine, than would the "water heater-style" heating element inserted into one of the (mis-named) "freeze plugs" in the engine block itself, as the latter is ALREADY HEATING WATER INSIDE THE ENGINE'S WATER JACKETS, DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE ENGINE'S THERMOSTAT IS CLOSED.

So...since I'm clearly biased toward an IN-block, electric water heater-style block heater, CAN ANYONE RECOMMEND THE BEST BRAND/MODEL OF THIS TYPE OF BLOCK HEATER?

Help? LOL

Thanks,

Y-Yes

demarpaint 02-03-2016 05:49 AM

You can also get an oil pan heater, which sticks onto the oil pan. Wolverine makes a good unit and it really helps with cold starting. No cutting hoses or removing freeze out plugs is necessary to install it, so no leaks to worry about. ADEE nailed it.

The only advantage to a block heater is you'll get heat faster, but better cold oil flow goes to the pan warmer. I use both, but I order my vehicles with a block heater factory installed.

harcosparky 02-03-2016 07:58 AM

Good battery is a great idea.

BATTERY TENDER is also a good idea ........ Extreme Cold is tough on batteries, and a BATTERY TENDER helps negate that.

I have vehicles here with batteries that are over 8 years old and they act like new, all are on a BATTERY TENDERS.


I like the idea of that engine coolant heater ..... hmmmm.


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