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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Probably buying a 2021 Rubicon Gladiator next year. I'm really hoping they make a 2 door version, and one article I read dated 4/1/19 said FCA was going to retool the Toledo plant for just that. (Edit: just actually read it to the end and it was an April Fool's joke...bastards.)

Apparently no plans for a two door. Dammit.

Who else would buy one? I think they would sell okay.
 

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I actually started a FB page as an online petition about a week ago. However, I need to retool it because it doesn't let me promote the page.

Believe it or not, I have received negative feedback such as "two door pickups are dead". I think people can't see beyond their own neighborhood where yes, it wouldn't be a hot seller but globally, there would be enough of a demand. Toyota has a 70 series standard cab that they sell in Australia and Asia, and they seem to sell well. That's likely the only mid sized pickup in the world offered in a standard cab with solid axles.

I think it could sell in the US at about 6-9% of overall JK/JT sales. It could also be a global hot seller, and I'd bet foreign military sales could justify production.
 

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I think 6-9% of all JL/JT sales is a HUGE stretch, I think 6-9% of JT sales might be more realistic.
 

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I would be interested as long as it had a full length bed and not a shorty.
 

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They had a great Gladiator in the old days.. It was a real pickup truck not a stretched JL with a bit of an open bed in the back.

Would have been nice if they came out with a retro version of the early Gladiator.. (With the grille moderned up a bit :)). I would seriously consider one since I'm in the market for a new truck right now.

But. I'm pretty sure FCA would be concerned about how it would affect Ram truck sales.
 

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Before FCA decides to spend one more dime on JT, sales have to prove themselves. We don’t yet have a good sense of where JT sales relative to target. Published sales numbers look fine, but the fact that JTs are being discounted already suggests otherwise.

The 2-door Gladiator looks great IMO. But pickup sales have been shifting from 2 to 4 doors for years. Add to that the rate at which 2-door JL is selling these days, and I doubt FCA will want to spend a dime on a 2-door JT.

I don’t see anyone being able to sell this idea internally, unfortunately.
 

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I actually started a FB page as an online petition about a week ago. However, I need to retool it because it doesn't let me promote the page.

Believe it or not, I have received negative feedback such as "two door pickups are dead". I think people can't see beyond their own neighborhood where yes, it wouldn't be a hot seller but globally, there would be enough of a demand. Toyota has a 70 series standard cab that they sell in Australia and Asia, and they seem to sell well. That's likely the only mid sized pickup in the world offered in a standard cab with solid axles.

I think it could sell in the US at about 6-9% of overall JK/JT sales. It could also be a global hot seller, and I'd bet foreign military sales could justify production.
Two door pickups are dead.

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Probably buying a 2021 Rubicon Gladiator next year. I'm really hoping they make a 2 door version, and one article I read dated 4/1/19 said FCA was going to retool the Toledo plant for just that. (Edit: just actually read it to the end and it was an April Fool's joke...bastards.)

Apparently no plans for a two door. Dammit.

Who else would buy one? I think they would sell okay.
Frosty the Snowman would survive summer vacation in hell before American consumers would go back to compact/midsize regular cab pickup trucks. And this is the reason no competitors I can think of still sell that configuration, except maybe Toyota and they don't count because their POS truck is a 15 year old design.

So, don't hold your breath. I don't see it ever happening again. These companies do extensive market research and they aren't going to tool up to build a vehicle that will only sell in extremely low numbers. Mark Allen from the Gladiator project even said so in some early TFL videos.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Frosty the Snowman would survive summer vacation in hell before American consumers would go back to compact/midsize regular cab pickup trucks. And this is the reason no competitors I can think of still sell that configuration, except maybe Toyota and they don't count because their POS truck is a 15 year old design.



So, don't hold your breath. I don't see it ever happening again. These companies do extensive market research and they aren't going to tool up to build a vehicle that will only sell in extremely low numbers. Mark Allen from the Gladiator project even said so in some early TFL videos.
I wonder then, how long before the 2 door Wrangler is discontinued since the 4 door has about 70% or more of the Wrangler sales? It has been the exception when it comes to the success of 2 door SUVs.

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I wonder then, how long before the 2 door Wrangler is discontinued since the 4 door has about 70% or more of the Wrangler sales? It has been the exception when it comes to the success of 2 door SUVs.

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Boy would I love to see the return of a 2 door bronco or tahoe! BUT, to the point of this thread, I would still not buy one at this point in my life with 3 kids climbing into the back seat on the regular.
 

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except maybe Toyota and they don't count because their POS truck is a 15 year old design.

You're almost tearing down your own case right there. Toyota absolutely doesn't count, because let's face it the design is old, the standard cab (which I do believe is discontinued) was embarrassingly ugly, and add to that their new motor in the Tacoma is a bomb. If I had a standard cab 2WD Tacoma in my driveway, my neighbors would think I'm getting a parts delivery from Autozone.

Regardless of practicality, which let's face it, Wranglers are short on to begin with, the J6 concept is a great looking truck that people would want to be seen in. Not everyone has a batch of rugrats, they get a JLU because they want the extra room to haul things because they have no other option.
 

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they get a JLU because they want the extra room to haul things because they have no other option.
Thats just not true anymore though...had you said JKU, before the Gladiator was available, I could see it. But nobody is buying a JLU over a Gladiator just to haul more stuff, but would buy a Gladiator if it was a 2 door...that logic just doesn't add up.
 

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Thats just not true anymore though...had you said JKU, before the Gladiator was available, I could see it. But nobody is buying a JLU over a Gladiator just to haul more stuff, but would buy a Gladiator if it was a 2 door...that logic just doesn't add up.

I'm talking about people who don't need four seats, want the utility of a pickup bed on the trails, and don't need a JT that's as long as a Kenworth with the overhang of a '79 LTD Wagon.

When my kids get older, I'll be in that boat. I'd love to have a pickup bed to put some drawers in, haul a bike or two, and somewhere to put my chainsaw where I won't have to smell two stroke. But I won't be getting a four-door JT. It's just too big for the kind of trails I'll be hitting.
 

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I wonder then, how long before the 2 door Wrangler is discontinued since the 4 door has about 70% or more of the Wrangler sales? It has been the exception when it comes to the success of 2 door SUVs.

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The 2-door Wrangler still exist because of its long heritage. There are people out there who consider the 2-door the only “real” Jeep.

But sales of 2-door have been declining, as a % of Wrangler sales, for the last 13 years. And this trend appears to have accelerated with JL.

We will have to see how sales of 2-door Jeeps do when JL nears the end of its cycle, around 2027. But if the current trend continues, I wouldn’t be surprised if its replacement, JM, launches as 4-door only.
 

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I'm talking about people who don't need four seats, want the utility of a pickup bed on the trails, and don't need a JT that's as long as a Kenworth with the overhang of a '79 LTD Wagon.

When my kids get older, I'll be in that boat. I'd love to have a pickup bed to put some drawers in, haul a bike or two, and somewhere to put my chainsaw where I won't have to smell two stroke. But I won't be getting a four-door JT. It's just too big for the kind of trails I'll be hitting.
IF, and that is a huge if, they were to look into and possibly pursue a 2 door Gladiator, I bet it still wouldn't be what you are looking for. My guess is it would still be dang near just as long but with a shorter cab and longer box. Much of what I am hearing out of my customers is that they like the idea of the Gladiator but it needs a bigger bed option. Diving into the 2 door truck market would be focusing primarily on it being a work truck option and nobody gets a work truck with a tiny box.

I love the passion you have behind this, but I think a Brute conversion on a 2 door is what you would have to settle for to get it...or a side by side...
 

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I wonder then, how long before the 2 door Wrangler is discontinued since the 4 door has about 70% or more of the Wrangler sales? It has been the exception when it comes to the success of 2 door SUVs.

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I've heard that 2-door Wrangler actually makes up less sales percentage than that. BUT.. with SUVs it's a different can of worms because you do still have at least 4 seats with seatbelts and dry interior cargo storage. I think that's the only reason they're hanging on.

With a pickup, 2-doors means you lose at least one seating position if not two, and you also lose all your dry cargo storage behind the seat. So, terrible configuration that Americans will no longer accept.
 

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2-door Wranglers sold nearly 50K units in 2017, over 25% of total Wrangler production. While that is a small percentage of actual Wrangler production, it's still a high number... especially considering TJ's never sold 90K units in any single year, and as low as 64k in 2002. That's why there will be 2-door units for the foreseeable future.

The JKU expanded the Wrangler into the mainstream SUV market, hence the number of Wranglers sold quadrupling. In that, the two door and four door models could nearly be considered different categories.

Granted, helping the Wrangler sell is the lack of competition. But we can point to the Toyota FJ Cruiser... probably the most capable 2-door SUV competitor to the Wrangler, and its success. They couldn't keep those on the lot and today a low mileage 2014 is worth nearly as much as the original purchase price.
 

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But we can point to the Toyota FJ Cruiser... probably the most capable 2-door SUV competitor to the Wrangler, and its success. They couldn't keep those on the lot and today a low mileage 2014 is worth nearly as much as the original purchase price.
You're right. The FJ Cruiser did so well that sales dropped so much that Toyota canceled it.

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2-door Wranglers sold nearly 50K units in 2017, over 25% of total Wrangler production. While that is a small percentage of actual Wrangler production, it's still a high number... especially considering TJ's never sold 90K units in any single year, and as low as 64k in 2002. That's why there will be 2-door units for the foreseeable future.

The JKU expanded the Wrangler into the mainstream SUV market, hence the number of Wranglers sold quadrupling. In that, the two door and four door models could nearly be considered different categories.

Granted, helping the Wrangler sell is the lack of competition. But we can point to the Toyota FJ Cruiser... probably the most capable 2-door SUV competitor to the Wrangler, and its success. They couldn't keep those on the lot and today a low mileage 2014 is worth nearly as much as the original purchase price.
It’s difficult to get separate sales counts between 2-door and 4-door these days. But last I recall, since JL launched, sales of 2-door were down to 20%-15% of total Wrangler sales. Sales of 2-door have been steadily declining as a % of total Wrangler sales since the 4-door was introduced.

When we look at sales of vehicles that have had 2-door and 4-door variants for a long time, like Honda Civic and Accord, the ratio we see is about 90% 4-door/10% 2-door. That seems to be those body styles’ natural sales proportion.

Will Jeep keep the 2-door the day it only accounts for 10% of Wrangler sales? They should IMO, given that the 2-door is the one that started it all. But who knows really. It will depend who is in charge and what pressures FCA is facing at that moment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
If they ever do stop making two doors, I wonder if that will increase the resale value of used two doors?

At any rate, I have dismissed the idea of getting a Gladiator for a number of reasons, and will just keep my paid for 2016 Tacoma TRD OR. However I will likely be looking very hard for a nicely restored CJ because I've never had one and I'm tired of being jeepless. :thumb:

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