[tvrbob]

The two terms are often used differently by auto makers.

Thank you.

Are the automakers wrong, or are you wrong?

 

[panthermark]

That is an inaccurate statement. AWD and 4WD are synonymous terms. AWD is usually used in reference to systems with a center differential and can be used full time. That does not mean they have LSD. AWD does not mean full power to all wheels. It is still one drive wheel on each axle unless they are locked or have LSD.

I agree, AWD does not always mean limited slip at every corner, but for this discussion, I was using the term "good" AWD....which is what the Subaru's Symmetrical system is...as well as Acura's SH-AWD.


Here is a pretty good video of Subaru vs Honda, Toyota, Ford, and Nissan.
All-Wheel Drive | Subaru AWD

 

[daggo66]

Thank you.

Are the automakers wrong, or are you wrong?

That they are used differently does not change the FACT that they are synonymous. You truly are in a state of bliss today!

 

[tvrbob]

That they are used differently does not change the FACT that they are synonymous.

Of course, it does. AWD and 4WD have very specific and different meanings. Your insistence to the contrary does not change that.

 

[travis29]

opcorn:

 

[daggo66]

Of course, it does. AWD and 4WD have very specific and different meanings. Your insistence to the contrary does not change that.

AWD = All Wheel Drive 4WD = Four Wheel Drive. Unless your vehicle has more then 4 wheels, they are the same.

 

[daggo66]

I agree, AWD does not always mean limited slip at every corner, but for this discussion, I was using the term "good" AWD....which is what the Subaru's Symmetrical system is...as well as Acura's SH-AWD.


Here is a pretty good video of Subaru vs Honda, Toyota, Ford, and Nissan.
All-Wheel Drive | Subaru AWD

I would love to see a real explanation of that system. The videos make it seem like it's magic.

 

[countrybassist]

My Jeep has a 5th hanging on the tailgate.:rofl: Sorry, I couldn't resist.:hide:

 

[daggo66]

My Jeep has a 5th hanging on the tailgate.:rofl: Sorry, I couldn't resist.:hide:

:facepalm:

 

[mcdull]

If want explanation of AWD and 4WD, just do a google search for to get whatever you like or not. There is some good write ups on wikipedia.
I did look for this information that when I did my research for the new car.

People should stay with the topics.

 

[countrybassist]

penta-drive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rofl::rofl:

 

[Milkman]

This thread shamed me into buying a 99 TJ today to get my man card back from driving my Subaru for 2 years. I hope you guys and gals are happy when my wife divorces me...

Pick up my chili pepper red Sport at 9am, I'm a Jeeper again :dance:

 

[kik]

Tires withstanding, a good AWD system in "regular" winter driving is >>>>>> than a RWD Wrangler.

Clearly is you are driving through a blizzard, or just had a foot of snow dumped on you and the street have not been plowed, the Wrangler will win. But if we are talking your typical December through February that has patchy ice, sleet, and slick but salted streets.....AWD is a better system as it is basically like having a limited slip differential at every wheel.

Basically, if the roads are not bad enough to be in 4WD, than AWD is better.

Not totally true. Whether you have rear wheel drive, front wheel drive, awd or 4wd, if you're able to maintain a safe speed given the road conditions you outlined than the issue is moot. Now, if you're going up an incline/steep hill and you need additional traction for example; fwd is better than rwd, awd is better than fwd and rwd and 4wd is the best option to have. 4wd with lockers trumps them all. Given you're road scenario, being in 2wd with a JK is just fine. There isn't even be a need to be in 4wd. I think awd might be an easier system since there's no button to push, I believe for the most part, or lever to pull. I think that's what makes it appealing to the majority of drivers. The vehicle makes all of the decisions for you. Not my idea of a good time.

 

[tontwins]

Thanks guy's this is helpful info. Especially the stuff I cannot quantify. Sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story.

Just to clarify my commute to Alta is 8.3 miles one way up Little Cottonwood Canyon it’s 8.3 miles average grade is 9.2% it rises 4,000 feet. The plows pretty much stop after 5-6pm so if it’s snowing the roads can be bad. I’ve had to turn around with my 2wd car a couple times. With chains I can normally do ok in my 2wd but it’s not a pleasant experience and if a chain snaps it’s game over. Not a lot of guard rails so it’s a little sketchy. We average 500" of snow in a season.

While gas is better on the Subaru it’s not amazingly so… Maybe 5-7 more real world mpg but over the long run it will add up. Seems like most folks say the 2012 JK has enough power while most reviews on the Subaru are lack luster.

JK 17-21 stated mpg
XV 23/30 stated mpg

 

[kik]

Thanks guy's this is helpful info. Especially the stuff I cannot quantify. Sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story.

Just to clarify my commute to Alta is 8.3 miles one way up Little Cottonwood Canyon it’s 8.3 miles average grade is 9.2% it rises 4,000 feet. The plows pretty much stop after 5-6pm so if it’s snowing the roads can be bad. I’ve had to turn around with my 2wd car a couple times. With chains I can normally do ok in my 2wd but it’s not a pleasant experience and if a chain snaps it’s game over. Not a lot of guard rails so it’s a little sketchy. We average 500" of snow in a season.

While gas is better on the Subaru it’s not amazingly so… Maybe 5-7 more real world mpg but over the long run it will add up. Seems like most folks say the 2012 JK has enough power while most reviews on the Subaru are lack luster.

JK 17-21 stated mpg
XV 23/30 stated mpg

500" of snow in a season. Then, I want a Rubi or a good tracked vehicle. 1/2 track would work. Sacriledge, but I'd take an H1 also.

 

[panthermark]

Obviously driving at a safe speed is key. But it isn't just straight line driving...it is sitting in the left turning lane on a green light and waiting for an opening to make your turn in slushy weather. Or sitting at a stop sign on an incline and trying to accelerate or make a right turn on a slick road. Same for entering or exiting a slick on/off ramp.

In the end, it is probably 95% driver skill anyway.

I made it almost 10 years with my little 5 speed stick, no-limited slip, FWD Integra in Iowa and Illinois winters. At no time was I ever stuck.

OP...get what you like, what fits, and what you can afford.

 

[tontwins]

Ha 2010-11 we had over 700" it was epic! Lockers wouldn't help much for driving the road has a lot of sharp turns....30-40 mph driving too but digging out lockers may help? after some storms all i can see is my cars radio antena sticking out... it would be great to not have to spend an hour digging out... I've done two season with a toyota yaris so I know it is possible to get by....but chains are not fun... and when all the plowed spots are taken i have to dig myself one I think with a Jeep i maybe able to just drive into unplowed spot and get out ok

 

[panthermark]

I would love to see a real explanation of that system. The videos make it seem like it's magic.

Subaru has one of the best AWD systems out there....it does look like magic...probably because it is one of the few AWD systems that actually works.

Here is an even longer video that test both FWD and AWD modes.
Subaru US - All-Wheel Drive demonstration video - YouTube


I'm wondering if their extensive experience in rally car has helped as well.

 

[snikt]

You might want to invest in a snowmobile

 

[tontwins]

pantermark do you have a jeep doing that ramp test? Do you think a jeep wrangler sport could do it with open diffs 4wd high?