Jeep Wrangler Forum banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of MAY's Ride of the Month Challenge!

201 - 220 of 238 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
925 Posts
Almost all car manufacturers now use this design. And for their parts like these roller rockers, they often use the same supplier. In addition, these roller followers are almost identical on those other engines, while they appear to be largely trouble free.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,796 Posts
What would be the cause of failure? I've heard incorrectly hardened parts, or could it be poor lubrication, cam ramp design, spring pressure, side loading?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
925 Posts
It may have more than one cause.

However, one thing stands out, I have mentioned it and we have discussed this here on this forum before:
Pentastar is not alone with this. The rollers are 'suddenly' failing on Hemi and some other engines as well.

E.g. the rollers do 'suddenly' fail on Ford's engines too, notably on the very SAME engines (e.g. 4.6 Modular engine or the V10) that once used to have a REPUTATION to be a bullet proof design, lasting a million miles and more.

So you have to ask yourself, what has changed since these problems have arrived?

On the older designs of Hemi as well as Ford one major change stands out. The use of lower oil viscosity towards the goal to meet Cafe Standards.

The blaming low oil viscosity argument appears to be even more compelling as there are other manufacturers engines with almost the same roller follower design (nowadays you'll find this design in most newer engine designs), that are running without reported roller failures. As you may have guessed it, those manufacurers have NOT started using lower viscosity oils to meet (or cheat) Cafe Standards. A prominent example is the Mercedes M276 V6 engine that is almost identical to the Pentastar with almost identical followers as well and the Mercedes M278 V8 with 2x extra cylinders.

What about those engines that do use low viscosity oils while having no roller follower issues, like e.g. Honda? The answer is simple, they do not even use roller followers to begin with.

So until anyone can show me what was changed on Pentastar particularly with respect to it's valve train since it's inception, I'll be using the oil viscosity, that this engine was originally designed for and what was originally recommended for this engine by the engineers at it's initial release and NOT the oil viscosity that was apparently later recommended by bureaucrats as some necessary evil patch, just to meet Cafe Standards of the day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Well, dropped my JKU off at the dealer just now. Service advisor already told me not covered because I’m less than a month out from the end of my power train warranty. Already contacted Jeep Cares. We’ll see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
726 Posts
I will be doing the same next oil change, no more CAFE oil grade.

It may have more than one cause.

However, one thing stands out, I have mentioned it and we have discussed this here on this forum before:
Pentastar is not alone with this. The rollers are 'suddenly' failing on Hemi and some other engines as well.

E.g. the rollers do 'suddenly' fail on Ford's engines too, notably on the very SAME engines (e.g. 4.6 Modular engine or the V10) that once used to have a REPUTATION to be a bullet proof design, lasting a million miles and more.

So you have to ask yourself, what has changed since these problems have arrived?

On the older designs of Hemi as well as Ford one major change stands out. The use of lower oil viscosity towards the goal to meet Cafe Standards.

The blaming low oil viscosity argument appears to be even more compelling as there are other manufacturers engines with almost the same roller follower design (nowadays you'll find this design in most newer engine designs), that are running without reported roller failures. As you may have guessed it, those manufacurers have NOT started using lower viscosity oils to meet (or cheat) Cafe Standards. A prominent example is the Mercedes M276 V6 engine that is almost identical to the Pentastar with almost identical followers as well and the Mercedes M278 V8 with 2x extra cylinders.

What about those engines that do use low viscosity oils while having no roller follower issues, like e.g. Honda? The answer is simple, they do not even use roller followers to begin with.

So until anyone can show me what was changed on Pentastar particularly with respect to it's valve train since it's inception, I'll be using the oil viscosity, that this engine was originally designed for and what was originally recommended for this engine by the engineers at it's initial release and NOT the oil viscosity that was apparently later recommended by bureaucrats as some necessary evil patch, just to meet Cafe Standards of the day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
This was happening to me in my JKU 2015. Drive about 3k on it like that because I was on a trip with my dirtbikes. Had a trusted shop check it out and here is what they did:

1. New lifters and rockers all around
2. The bad lifter had a bearing that was so ground down, it was in an oval shape
3. Had to replace cam where the bearing had grinded into it
4. While he was in there, called and suggested just changing spark plugs as well since it has 105k miles on it.
5. Said the engine was super clean inside (running 5w-30) and said "Keep doing what you are doing on that"

Now it runs smooth. Total cost: 1500.00. I mean, I drive that thing hard, tow bikes with a 5x8 enclosed trailer from Houston to CO to Moab and back multiple times. Outside of this, I have never had a single issue. In my mind, this is acceptable. It's paid off and for crying out loud, what else can drive you across the country, through serious offroad trails at elevation, and still be so much fun every single day you drive it. I'm fine with it and will continue to buy the best all round off road vehicle ever made.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Good luck. Hope Chrysler Jeep Care helps you.

My powertrain warranty expired a few months after my engine tick. After talking to Jeep Care and Chrysler headquarters manager noone would help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
105,000 Miles on JKU 2015

Approx. at what mileage did you switch to 5W30 and have you been running 5W30 consistently since?
Ran 10w-20 funtil I heard tick (95% of mileage). As soon as I heard the tick, I switched to 10w-30. But, I will be running 10w-30 from now on.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,830 Posts
Ran 10w-20 funtil I heard tick (95% of mileage). As soon as I heard the tick, I switched to 10w-30. But, I will be running 10w-30 from now on.
I think a 30 grade oil is better suited for the engine than the 20 grade they used to get CAFE credits. I also think the reduction in ZDDP to preserve the catalytic converters isn't helping matters. These cam and lifter failures are popping up in other brands of vehicles as well. I was told by someone I have a lot of respect for that Chrysler outsources cams and lifters, as do others. They might even use the same mfg. as other automakers for their cams and lifters. They spec them, an outsider builds them, and the quality sucks. My guy told me not to run the 20 grade oil, and to boost the ZDDP level a bit to 1,200-1,400 ppm. He claims that would be beneficial contrary to popular belief. Others including engine builders seem to agree. Then there are those who disagree with everything I mentioned here.

I found it a topic that was very interesting, and when I did my research on the topic I learned quite a bit. One thing that stood out is ZDDP in oil still has its merits even in this these types of engines.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wrangleur

·
Registered
Joined
·
925 Posts
I was told by someone I have a lot of respect for that Chrysler outsources cams and lifters, as do others.
Other than design and final assembly, there is almost no part left that manufacturers make themselves in house. Nearly everything is outsourced.

By the way, in an unrelated search, I tracked the engine block of the revised 2nd generation Pentastar (prefer to call it Pentastar II) to be coming form Martinrea Honsel's Mexico plant. If anyone has info about where our first generation Pentastar block was cast, I would like to know.
 

·
Grooving With A Pict
Joined
·
2,493 Posts
Other than design and final assembly, there is almost no part left that manufacturers make themselves in house. Nearly everything is outsourced.

By the way, in an unrelated search, I tracked the engine block of the revised 2nd generation Pentastar (prefer to call it Pentastar II) to be coming form Martinrea Honsel's Mexico plant. If anyone has info about where our first generation Pentastar block was cast, I would like to know.
https://www.pentastars.com/engines/production.php
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,830 Posts
Other than design and final assembly, there is almost no part left that manufacturers make themselves in house. Nearly everything is outsourced.

By the way, in an unrelated search, I tracked the engine block of the revised 2nd generation Pentastar (prefer to call it Pentastar II) to be coming form Martinrea Honsel's Mexico plant. If anyone has info about where our first generation Pentastar block was cast, I would like to know.
True, it seems that cams and lifters are problematic from other automakers as well which is why I mentioned it.

The Pentastar blocks IIRC were made in Mexico and Kokomo Indiana. I'm not sure how to tell them apart.

I've also heard first hand on more than one occasion the "Pentastar II" ticking away like an old sewing machine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wrangleur

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I developed a loud lifter tick on the drivers side last week. 2015 jku sport s with 19k. This stated as an intermittent tick an quickly turned full time. I've used pensoil platinum synthetic 5w 20 changed every 5k miles. Had it to the dealer today, they diagnosed it as a collapsed lifter and said they ordered all the lifters for the drivers side and will be replacing them. Anyone else have this issue? I've seen the posts about the 2012 heads being an issue but not later models. Hopefully the lifter replacement will fix it. Goes back in Friday for the repair.

Rob
Got the same problem. 2014 Sahara 3.6
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I developed a loud lifter tick on the drivers side last week. 2015 jku sport s with 19k. This stated as an intermittent tick an quickly turned full time. I've used pensoil platinum synthetic 5w 20 changed every 5k miles. Had it to the dealer today, they diagnosed it as a collapsed lifter and said they ordered all the lifters for the drivers side and will be replacing them. Anyone else have this issue? I've seen the posts about the 2012 heads being an issue but not later models. Hopefully the lifter replacement will fix it. Goes back in Friday for the repair.

Rob
I got the same problem. 2014 3.6
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
969 Posts
I've been trying to determine if a tick I have is normal or not, have asked dealer to look at it a couple times and of course they say it's normal. It's louder on passenger side, sounds most like it's coming from the intake manifold on that side. Looking at it closer today I found some oil residue on the inboard side of the passenger cylinder head cover where the plastic meets the block, it's not a crazy amount but definitely has leaked a bit at some point. From what I can see of the driver side in the same area it doesn't have the same residue. Is that residue indicative of a problem that I could use to get the dealer to look into it closer?

The Jeep also has sort of a noisy exhaust, like I can hear a tick or raspy sound particularly when driving next to a wall, parked cars, etc that reflects the sound back. Dealer replaced the exhaust manifold gasket I believe on the passenger side when it was pretty new.

I'm coming up to the end of the 3 yr warranty but still have 2 more on the powertrain and from what I see in the Mopar warranty document the exhaust manifold and gaskets are covered under the 5yr so not urgent but just trying to see if I need to be more forceful to the dealer to look into it.

My MPGs also seem on the low side, I'm lucky to get better than about 16 doing 75 on a level freeway, with just 315 70 17s and 4.10 gears, around town more like 14 or 15, wondering if anything amiss related to the tick could be contributing. It's not that low but a see a number of people reporting more like 17 or 18 with similar conditions. I saw Terry's other thread about MPGs related to fuel/evap lines and looked those over and all appears well, and no codes.

4461638


4461640
 
201 - 220 of 238 Posts
Top