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Retired Mod
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Wish I could make it bigger...but here are the two engines side by side.


There is a nice write up on it....but I think it is from a competing website....so I'm not sure if I can post the link.
 

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It will be interesting to see at wheel numbers and not just Engine numbers. There is a decent torque gain but at actual driving rpms the hp really isn't that far apart
 

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Retired Mod
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In the write up, they do talk about the unofficial 2.5 second difference in the 0-60 times on a closed course with similar versions. Yeah...more real world info would be nice.

And I just noticed...you can rightclick on the graph, and easily locate where the article came from.
 

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Can that be right? :confused:

Torque is improved, but the hp numbers appear almost the same between the two engines all the way until 4000 RPMs. And when I say "almost the same" I mean really, really, almost the same.

So if hp is essentially unimproved at normal RPMs, then what we're really seeing in all the rave reviews is simply the benefits of a 14% (IIRC) boost in low end torque?

I'd take a 14% boost in low end torque of course. I read the write-up and they're obviously pleased. I just . . . I thought it was a bigger deal than this. :confused:
 

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By looking at that chart, I am starting to think the bigger question of this upgraded powertrain, is it really the Motor, or more the Transmission that makes this package superior for everyday use?

The transmission has better ratios, and a lower overall final drive (due to a lower OD ratio) than a comparable auto 3.8L, maybe that is why it holds speed better on grades/hills?

Makes me wonder, the big improvement seems to be when one is flooring it all the tme, otherwise I'd be willing to wager that the "normal" driving improvement comes more from the transmission than the motor. Just my take on it. I am just speculating, any improvement is great IMHO!

Oh yeah, that flat torque curve, thank CVVT for that, not an "upgraded" block or heads. The Continuous Variable Valve Timing creates this flat torque band, I see this in my wifes car that had this technology back in 08 (09 model car)! That may be also why the engine feels a bit more peppy in moderate to easy driving, it is always at high efficiency in torque band.... via CVVT!

I BET that is why too.
 

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I was just thinking the same thing. The thread that had the 2011 and 2012 going head to head. I was wondering did they use the 6 speed in both which would really compare the motors or the Autos which would add that transmission upgrade in it.

Since I went to 4.88 gears my auto is a huge difference which really gets my 4 speed more in line with a stock 5 speed gearing.
 

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The Bad Guy
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By looking at that chart, I am starting to think the bigger question of this upgraded powertrain, is it really the Motor, or more the Transmission that makes this package superior for everyday use?

The transmission has better ratios, and a lower overall final drive (due to a lower OD ratio) than a comparable auto 3.8L, maybe that is why it holds speed better on grades/hills?

Makes me wonder, the big improvement seems to be when one is flooring it all the tme, otherwise I'd be willing to wager that the "normal" driving improvement comes more from the transmission than the motor. Just my take on it. I am just speculating, any improvement is great IMHO!

Oh yeah, that flat torque curve, thank CVVT for that, not an "upgraded" block or heads. The Continuous Variable Valve Timing creates this flat torque band, I see this in my wifes car that had this technology back in 08 (09 model car)! That may be also why the engine feels a bit more peppy in moderate to easy driving, it is always at high efficiency in torque band.... via CVVT!

I BET that is why too.
Of course it's the transmission. I've said that from day one. The real comparison is manual to manual. I'm sure it's better. but not as drastic a change as in the auto. That being said, who really gives a rat's a$$? If someone was that unhappy with their pre-12 JK, now they can trade for another. I'm happy with mine and wouldn't want to trade and give up my HD suspension which is more important to me than a few more ponies.
 

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I was just thinking the same thing. The thread that had the 2011 and 2012 going head to head. I was wondering did they use the 6 speed in both which would really compare the motors or the Autos which would add that transmission upgrade in it.

Since I went to 4.88 gears my auto is a huge difference which really gets my 4 speed more in line with a stock 5 speed gearing.
When I watched that video, this was my immediate response. It would have been more fair to compare the "motor performance" with both using the same transmission. But, by the graph... the torque band is laying down a flat 250 lb/ft early in the game, the 3.8L doesn't get skin in until later in the rpm range. The advanced auto defintely gives the powertrain the faster feel, which is a good thing.
 

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Of course it's the transmission. I've said that from day one. The real comparison is manual to manual. I'm sure it's better. but not as drastic a change as in the auto. That being said, who really gives a rat's a$$? If someone was that unhappy with their pre-12 JK, now they can trade for another. I'm happy with mine and wouldn't want to trade and give up my HD suspension which is more important to me than a few more ponies.
Some have already, but not me:thumb: I love my Jeep, will love it even more after my gear swap, and the only way I'll "trade up" is if it's for a 2.8 VM diesel or 3.0L that the GC has, and that is the ONLY way. I totally agree with you, my 3.8L is great for what I do :dance:
 

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I wish I had the new transmission more myself. I would love to have the new 5 speed in mine; the motor is fine IMO. Then again, if I didn't have neuropathy I would love to have a manual.
 

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I'm still just a little shocked that the claims of "40% more hp" are, for practical purposes, false. It looks like 2% or 4% or some such thing below 4000 RPMs.

So it's accurate to tell somebody considering a 2012 or a 2011 with a manual transmission that all the 2012 will offer them a tiny bump in hp and a 14% increase in torque? Not nothing, but not ground breaking either.

Based on this, it does indeed appear the new auto transmission that's where the real improvement is. That's as many of us suspected, but I hadn't really thought the hp curves were going to be this close.
 

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I'm still just a little shocked that the claims of "40% more hp" are, for practical purposes, false. It looks like 2% or 4% or some such thing below 4000 RPMs.

So it's accurate to tell somebody considering a 2012 or a 2011 with a manual transmission that all the 2012 will offer them a tiny bump in hp and a 14% increase in torque? Not nothing, but not ground breaking either.

Based on this, it does indeed appear the new auto transmission that's where the real improvement is.
Absolutely! like I said in the gear thread, dropped mine from 6th to 5th, and today I was able to climb a steep bridge over the Intracoastal (~ 150 ft, spans ~ 3/4 mile, not sure of the grade) with Cruise on. Mileage dropped just slightly (from 19.6 to ~ 19.2 avg), but I was heading into a 15-20 mph headwind too. The transmission is were the real performance gains are in normal driving, that and the CVVT on the 3.6L, allows torque band to be flat early into the rpm range. Better torque aerly into the game, reduced ratios, and lower final drive (most important for highway cruising I believe) is what make this powertrain work better, no doubt.
 

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like I said in the gear thread, dropped mine from 6th to 5th, and today I was able to climb a steep bridge over the Intracoastal (~ 150 ft, spans ~ 3/4 mile, not sure of the grade) with Cruise on.
Tell you what, try dropping it into 4th. When I'm feeling gutsy, I spend my highway drive swapping between 4th and 5th rather than 5th and 6th--in short, treat 5th as the OD and forget 6th. And let the RPMs spool out to 3500 or so before you shift to 5th. You pass people going uphills and are at 80 mph before you know it. Plenty of power--just got to get to it.
 

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MTH said:
Tell you what, try dropping it into 4th. When I'm feeling gutsy, I spend my highway drive swapping between 4th and 5th rather than 5th and 6th--in short, treat 5th as the OD and forget 6th. And let the RPMs spool out to 3500 or so before you shift to 5th. You pass people going uphills and are at 80 mph before you know it. Plenty of power--just got to get to it.
:thumb:
 

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MTH,

I'm sure the auto transmission is where the biggest gains are, but don't forget that Motor Trend's 6.7 second 0-60 was also in a manual trans. Unless they just got a ringer.
 

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:facepalm: A 14% increase in torque will result in a 14% increase in HP. It is 100% impossible not to. The chart does show this if you look closely (easiest spot is 2400 RPM where the old 3.8 is at 100 HP)

(Torque X Engine Speed)/5252 = Horsepower

Also, 0-60 will be measuring peak HP...not the point where people actually drive. Need to compare 50-70 (or whatever it is they use for passing power).
 

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The true story won't present itself until we see some rear wheel numbers for both engines, particularly with the automatics. We all know the 4 speed mated to the 3.8 eats a lot of power.
I'm really waiting to see how the new engine and trans perform off road. Better road manners is awesome for getting to the trails, but let's hope the differences are as apparent off road.
 

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I AM THERE4 I JEEP
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Better road manners is awesome for getting to the trails, but let's hope the differences are as apparent off road.
Thank you Sinister, that's what it's supposed to be about right? :whistling:
 

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Thank you Sinister, that's what it's supposed to be about right? :whistling:
It is. I'll admit that the tradition with the Wrangler has been a tradeoff of on road performance for off road capability, but the new 3.6 looks like it's changing that. I can't see any possible detriment to this, assuming the Wrangler remains just as capable off road. The JK really has revolutionized the Wrangler, like it or not. With all due respect to the Wranglers that have come before it, it's simply the best Wrangler yet. I've been messing with Jeeps since the YJ, but I finally bought one of my own when I experienced what the JK had to offer.

Now, where's the diesel!!!!
 
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