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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Heading to Rausch Creek soon for only my second time off road. After the first time, I have a couple questions. Thanks for any experience/info. Sorry if the questions sound like I'm so inexperienced...I am!:D

Often when I was out the first time (not Rausch), there were sections that I wanted to be in 4 Low and Locked. Then more or less flat seconds/higher speed sections. Do you guys and gals shift back and forth between 4H and 4L often? Or, is it ok to go fast (10-15mph) in 4L in a high gear (5/6)? I know the lockers "unlock" above 10mph...but is it ok for the Jeep to go fast in 4L on flat sections or do you shift back and forth? Finally, even in a complete stop and clutch in, sometimes it would have a grinding noise going into 4L....other times not. Is that normal?
 

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If in rough terrain you have to go slow anyway. I've been in situations where the going was really rough for a long time and stayed in 4 low the whole time. Then, the going would get easy and I would be in 5th, or 6th. I stayed unlocked during the entire time that we were moving along. If I got into a wheel spinning situation I locked the diffs and was able to drive out. Being locked makes it more difficult to steer. You get a lot of dragging and bucking in tight turns and makes it seem more difficult to move without digging in or the jeep acting like a bucking bronco. So, when off road I'm usually traction bar unlocked, low gear, diffs unlocked, and ESP is off.
 

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This will stir up a hornets nest of replys. I personally stay in 4 low most of the time but my jeep will only go 15mph in low range. If I need to go faster I just go back up to two wheel drive.

A lot of it has to do with what kind of trails you run also. If you run trails that are not real tough lots of people will spend a lot of time shifting the tcase back and fourth.
 

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I shift into high range for the greens and access roads. It only takes a second to stop and switch, and it saves wear and tear on the drivetrain. Alot of Rausch is twisty; you should only be locked if you are in deep mud or cocking a wheel in the air. In areas where you have decent traction, being locked is more of a handicap than a help. It kills your turning radius and can push your front end off the line you want to be taking through some technical sections.

Hit crawler ridge while you are there! It will have something for everyone in the group. Far right on the way up can be (and has been) done in a stock XJ. Far left on the way up is a nice line for mildly lifted vehicles with open diffs and moderately larger tires. The various lines up the middle will test everything from built-up dual purpose rigs to straight rock buggies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If in rough terrain you have to go slow anyway. I've been in situations where the going was really rough for a long time and stayed in 4 low the whole time. Then, the going would get easy and I would be in 5th, or 6th. I stayed unlocked during the entire time that we were moving along. If I got into a wheel spinning situation I locked the diffs and was able to drive out. Being locked makes it more difficult to steer. You get a lot of dragging and bucking in tight turns and makes it seem more difficult to move without digging in or the jeep acting like a bucking bronco. So, when off road I'm usually traction bar unlocked, low gear, diffs unlocked, and ESP is off.
Thanks! So if I understand you...you basically stay in 4L while off road. Only lock when needed. When on easier sections, unlocked, but stay in 4L and just use the higher gears. Thanks for the info. Oh, what is ESP?
 

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Completely depends on the trail. There are times I'm in 4 low almost the whole thing and other times I just flip into it to crawl over something. If your doing a trail that doesn't require much slow driving over obstacles I wouldn't be in 4 low but thats just me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I shift into high range for the greens and access roads. It only takes a second to stop and switch, and it saves wear and tear on the drivetrain. Alot of Rausch is twisty; you should only be locked if you are in deep mud or cocking a wheel in the air. In areas where you have decent traction, being locked is more of a handicap than a help. It kills your turning radius and can push your front end off the line you want to be taking through some technical sections.

Hit crawler ridge while you are there! It will have something for everyone in the group. Far right on the way up can be (and has been) done in a stock XJ. Far left on the way up is a nice line for mildly lifted vehicles with open diffs and moderately larger tires. The various lines up the middle will test everything from built-up dual purpose rigs to straight rock buggies.
Thanks for the info CL. I'm really looking forward to Rausch. What about the grinding? Is that just a matter of me not moving from 4h to 4L fast/smooth enough? Was completely stopped with clutch in. Just want to make sure I'm not hurting the gears inadvertently.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
This will stir up a hornets nest of replys. I personally stay in 4 low most of the time but my jeep will only go 15mph in low range. If I need to go faster I just go back up to two wheel drive.

A lot of it has to do with what kind of trails you run also. If you run trails that are not real tough lots of people will spend a lot of time shifting the tcase back and fourth.
Thanks Watch This. My JKUR will go fast in 4L. I guess I'm just wondering if it is OK to go fast in 4L. If so...I like the approach of just staying in 4L and only locking when necessary. Thanks in advance.
 

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I'm going to let this guy explain because he did it so well:

This should help.

Electronic Stability Program (ESP)


New MK25/25E anti-lock brake system




Continental Teves’ next-generation antilock braking system, the MK25e, is making its worldwide debut on the 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee. The MK25e is designed to prevent the wheels from locking during braking, providing increased stability and the capability to continue to steer the vehicle during hard braking. The MK25e also includes traction control (ESP), which detects wheel spin and applies the brake at the spinning wheel, effectively transferring torque to those wheels that have traction.
Electronic Stability Program (ESP) is a stability enhancement system designed to electronically detect and assist drivers in critical driving situations and under adverse conditions...automatically. Using signals from sensors throughout the vehicle, the system determines the appropriate brake and throttle adjustments for directional stability of the vehicle.

Electronic sensors are strategically placed in the vehicle, allowing ESP to analyze steering wheel activity, wheel speeds, acceleration and the vehicles' rotation about its vertical axis (technically named yaw). During motion, the collected data is continually compared to determine whether the actual course of the vehicle corresponds to the direction the driver is steering the vehicle. If not, ESP springs into action, correcting the vehicle's direction to coincide with where the driver is pointing it through a series of brake and engine interventions. The effect is to help correct oversteer and understeer and to coincide with where the driver is pointing the vehicle to help keep it on the road.

Continental Automotive Systems also will supply the 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee with brake boosters and master cylinders, wheel speed sensors, and the seat heating modules.





During Understeer:

In an understeer situation, the front end of the car tends to slide out. ESP automatically applies the inside, rear brake to help you acheive your desired turn. It may also reduce the engine's power.

During Oversteer:

In an oversteer situation, the rear end of the car tends to slide out or "fishtail". ESP automatically applies the outside, front brake to help you correct "fishtailing".

Advantages of ESP:


ESP constantly compares the driver's intended course with the vehicle's actual course and compensates for any differences.
ESP responds to help you drive safely whenever it senses impending wheel lock-up, wheel spin or loss of vehicle control.
It helps improve traction, maneuverability and stability in all weather conditions.
ESP Assists During All Driving Situations:


Braking

Accelerating

Cornering



















ESP functions and components




ESP operation in the WK

ESP (Electronic Stability Program) enhances directional control and reduces driving wheel spin of the vehicle under various driving conditions. ESP corrects for over/understeering of the vehicle by applying brakes to the appropriate wheel. Engine torque is also limited. The "ESP Indicator Light," located in the instrument cluster, starts to flash as soon as the tires lose traction and the ESP system becomes active.

Chrysler introduced an additional enhancement on the all-new Jeep Grand Cherokee, an electronic rollover mitigation system that extends the ESP technology and provides enhanced vehicle stability during emergency maneuvers on all surfaces. The system observes and monitors the vehicle roll attitude and lateral force to estimate the potential for a rollover situation. If necessary, the engine torque is reduced and a short burst of full braking is applied to the appropriate wheel to help stabilize the vehicle attitude and reduce the vehicle's lateral force.

These systems build on the Chrysler Group electronic chassis controls which include Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS) and All-Speed Traction Control (TCS). The Anti-Lock Brake System keeps the vehicle straight while retaining steering capability when braking on slippery surfaces by preventing wheel lock-up. It benefits from state-of the-art electronics that provide a more refined system response than in the past. All-Speed TCS enhances mobility and prevents wheel slip when accelerating on slippery surfaces. It also provides a measure of directional stability control -- an advancement beyond prior traction control systems. Using the wheel-speed sensors, it can detect excessive yaw and help keep the car on the intended course as, for instance, when accelerating around a curve.

In addition to the brake engagement at low speeds used by conventional traction control systems, All-Speed TCS uses throttle control as well. This makes the vehicle less reliant on brake application alone to maintain traction, increases the operating speed range, and more closely modulates speed and acceleration, to provide smoother operation. With All-Speed TCS reducing engine torque when accelerating, it is possible to achieve almost seamless torque application at the wheels. All-Speed TCS also benefits from state-of-the art electronics that provide a much more refined system response than in the past.


Operation:

To turn the ESP system OFF, press the switch, located below the climate controls in the center stack, until the "ESP Indicator Light" in the instrument cluster turns on and the message "ESP SYSTEM DISABLED" appears in the Electronic Vehicle Information Center (EVIC). To turn the system back ON, press the switch a second time until the "ESP Indicator Light" turns off. ESP is always available during braking (in 4WD Hi) even if it has been switched off.

When the ESP system has been switched off, a feature of the system remains active. This feature functions similar to a limited slip differential and controls the wheel spin across an axle. If one wheel on an axle is spinning faster than the other, the system will apply the brake of the spinning wheel and allow more engine torque to be applied to the wheel that is not spinning.

To improve the vehicle's traction when driving with snow chains, or starting off in deep snow, sand or gravel, it may be desirable to switch off the ESP by pressing the ESP switch.

With the ESP switched off, the engine torque reduction and stability features are cancelled. Therefore, the enhanced vehicle stability offered by ESP is unavailable.

If the "ESP Indicator Light" begins to flash during acceleration, ease up on the accelerator and apply as little throttle as possible. Be sure to adapt your speed and driving to the prevailing road conditions. When the "ESP Indicator Light" is illuminated continuously, the ESP is switched off. To return to the enhanced vehicle stability offered by ESP, press the ESP switch (the "ESP Indicator Light" in the instrument cluster goes out). Avoid spinning one drive wheel. This may cause serious damage to the drive train.

NOTE:


The "ESP Indicator Light" comes on momentarily each time the ignition switch is turned ON.
Each time the ignition is turned ON, the ESP System will be ON even if it was turned off previously.
The ESP Control System will make buzzing or clicking sounds when it is active.


There are two Electronic Vehicle Information Center (EVIC) messages associated with the Electronic Stability Control System:

1. ESP System Disabled

This message will be displayed if the ESP System has been turned off using the switch, or if there is a temporary condition that will result in partial or no ESP function. The "ESP Indicator Light" will be on when the system is disabled or only partial function is allowed. The "ESP SYSTEM DISABLED" message and the "ESP Indicator Light" being illuminated without the switch being depressed is not an indication that service of the electronic brake system is required.

Also, the "ESP SYSTEM DISABLED" message will be present when the vehicle is shifted into 4WD LOW.

2. Service Elec Brake System

This message will be displayed if a condition exists that may require servicing the electronic brake system. When this message is displayed and the "ESP Indicator Light" is on, there is a malfunction of the ESP System. If the "SERVICE ELEC BRAKE SYSTEM" message continues to be displayed after several ignition cycles and the vehicle has been driven several miles at speeds greater than 30 mph (48 km/h), see your authorized dealer for service.


WARNING!
ESP (Electronic Stability Program) cannot prevent the natural laws of physics from acting on the vehicle, nor can it increase the traction afforded. The ESP cannot prevent accidents, including those resulting from excessive speed in turns, or hydroplaning. Only a safe, attentive, and skillful driver can prevent accidents. The capabilities of an ESP equipped vehicle must never be exploited in a reckless or dangerous manner which could jeopardize the user's safety or the safety of others.







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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wOOt! :punk:
 

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I agree with those that posted that said that it depends on the situation. If there is a great distance of good terrain (no rocks and bumps) then by all means go into 4 high. When you are wheeling in a group they typically communicate by radio and will stop/pause for everybody to "gear up" into 4 high between attractions when the road smooths out and the next rugged patch is a good distance off measured in miles. If it is a short distance, say, 1 to 1.5 miles to the next attraction they will typically just use higher gears in 4 low to get there. In New England, the roads to get there are usually pretty rocky and you need to go slow anyway that is why I said I generally stay in 4 low. But yes, it does depend on the situation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm going to let this guy explain because he did it so well:



wOOt! :punk:
Thanks I appreciate it. So, the JKUR ESC gets turned off automatically when in 4L. You guys are great. Thanks for the info.
 

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Sadly, to my everlasting annoyance, if you disable ESC then shift into 4-L and back to 4-H it will re-enable ESC. Almost reason to run in 4-L the whole time right there.

I am almost never running more than 15 mph or so while off-road on anything technical and thus almost never shift out of 4-L. If I am just running fire breaks and gravel/dirt roads and what not, I leave it 4-H because I'm usually bombing about.
 

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Thanks for the info CL. I'm really looking forward to Rausch. What about the grinding? Is that just a matter of me not moving from 4h to 4L fast/smooth enough? Was completely stopped with clutch in. Just want to make sure I'm not hurting the gears inadvertently.
The owners manual states that the manual transmission should be in neutral with the clutch pressed in, and you can be rolling up to 3 MPH.

When you are rolling ever so slightly, it's easier for the gears to find a good place to settle, it you are perfectly stopped at just the right spot where the gears won't mesh well, you can get a little stiffness / griding when attempting to change between 4hi and 4lo.

I always make the change when i'm just ever so slightly rolling.

Also, as a rule of thumb, if you're really lugging it in 4hi, or if you're using your clutch a lot, shift to 4lo. You don't really even need the clutch in 4lo because 1st gear crawl is so slow.
 

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I always run in low range when off road. Not enough power in hi IMO. To help shifting the xfer case, being at a slight roll helps as the gears mesh more easily.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for the tips everyone. Very helpful. I hope to have some cool pictures to share from Rausch.
 

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I always run in low range when off road. Not enough power in hi IMO. To help shifting the xfer case, being at a slight roll helps as the gears mesh more easily.
That's why I almost never run in 4h. I bet my jeep has only been in 4high less then 10 times.
 

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Way backwards of what I've done. I've never needed 4LO in my Jeep.

Snow, rocks, tree roots, mud, ice, river crossings, hill climbs... all done in 4HI.
 

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My personal "belief system" for off-roading is use as little as possible. If you don't need to be in 4L use 4H or 2H. If you don't need to be locked turn them off...etc.

You will learn from experience what you may or my not need. The less systems you use the less chance you have of breaking junk.
 
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