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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've got an '87 with 35"s, no ABS, an 8.8 with the discs it came with, Dana 30 in the front with stock discs/calipers, and a PVC-B adjustable proportioning valve that's set to just about 50/50 front/rear. My brake booster/master is stock and the vehicle came with power brakes and steering. Other than swapping the proportioning valve and changing the fluid, I haven't done anything to it.

I know this question has been addressed ad nauseum over the years, but I still have yet to find anything definitive. Pretty much what I've read is that the off-the-shelf brake booster upgrades aren't a huge improvement, and otherwise it's a bunch of recommendations for shoehorning in a booster from a host of different vehicles that may or may not be an improvement. Each will require a reinvention of the wheel however...

Rather than trying to reinvent that wheel, I would prefer to follow a known path, blazed by one of you, that has proven results. The simpler and cheaper the better. I'd like to be able to lock up my 35s on pavement, but everything I've read says that's a tall order. At a minimum, I'd at least like to be able to consistently lock them up in the dirt, which I can just barely do now.

The last plausible recommendation I got involved installing a dual diaphagm booster and the discs and calipers from a 1970's GM land barge (www.tsmmfg.net). This is a fairly expensive upgrade at $1000 for the discs/calipers alone, and doesn't include a booster, which will be a whole other process and expense.

davescustomsunlimited.com and some other sell the '95 dual diaphragm booster but I've read many mixed reviews. tsmmfg (and Dave) says that you need their disc/caliper upgrade to really get the full benefit of the dual diaphragm booster because the 8.8 had marginal brakes from the factory. Others, of course, call BS on this. Not sure about the stock brakes on the Dana 30, but I know that I don't want to invest a bunch of money in an axle that I may replace down the road.

Dual diaphragm seems like the shortest distance between here and good brakes, but that's hardly a consensus. I suppose the obvious thing would be to install the dual diaphragm booster and see what it delivers before messing with the discs/calipers. I can also use more aggressive brake pads since this isn't a daily driver. Opinions?
 

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I have a DD booster and master cylinder from a TJ sitting on my bench. If I used it, I would have to cut and weld the shaft that connects the booster to the brake pedal. I have a welder and can weld, so that's not a big issue for me.

An even simpler solution and one I will probably go with is a DD booster from a '95 YJ. That's what I suggest you start with. It's a bolt in replacement and all reports I read makes a great difference. I'm confident you'll notice a big improvement with a DD booster. Some '94 YJs had a DD booster but it's for anti-lock brakes and has a different part number than the '95 booster.
Once you have the '95 YJ DD booster installed, drive the Jeep for a while to see how satisfied you are with the improvement and go from there.

Two other things I suggest are (1) make sure that all your brake lines are completely bled. You state the brakes are spongey. To me, that indicates air in the system.
The other thing (2) is you state your adjustable proportioning valve is set to 50/50. Since most of your stopping power is at the front axle, why don't you try 70% front and 30% rear? If that doesn't improve the braking you can fiddle with the proportioning valve to see if there is a setting that might improve your braking ability.

You further state that you have 35" tires. That's a lot of leverage the road has on your brakes. Do you need 35s for how you use your Jeep? If you can get by with smaller tires, (even 33s) you might see an improvement in your braking.

Keep us posted on what works for you.

Good Luck, L.M.
 

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I personally know of two people that have tried dual-diaphragm boosters on their rigs - one using a 95-style and the other now using a DCU (Dave's Customs) style (after first running a 95 dual-diaphragm style) and neither are satisfied with results and both say it wasn't worth the time or money...

The one (a member on this page and I'll see if I can get him to chime in) is running the DCU booster PLUS WJ knuckles and calipers. I got a chance to drive it and while the brakes felt good, they struggled to lock-up 31" tires on pavement. I will have to double check but I am fairly certain he was running the Vanco kit with the factory single diaphragm and could easily lock up the brakes. I have known others to run WJ knuckles with the factory booster and master and have good pedal feel and ability to lock-up at least 33" tires.

At the end of the day, the brake options on the D30 just kind of suck. While there are some common "fixes", as you are finding they seem to have mixed results and opinions. This is why I stand by my assessment that the D30 is a '33" tire axle". The failure prone unit-bearings and marginal brakes seem to reach their "braking point" (see what I did there!) at the 33" mark. Anything larger and they really struggle...

The only for-sure option to get a strong pedal with a D30 is to go with a hydroboost setup. While pricey, they're rock solid and strong. For me, jumping up to the Waggy D44 with true 1/2-ton brakes was one of the main reasons I went that route. Even then I experimented with different pads to get the feel and performance I was after. Now, I can lock up 35" tires at highway speeds on hot blacktop without hesitation. Heck I even stall out my 3700# rig, running down a 15% grade in 4LO with how power the brakes are!


If I were you, I'd start by adjusting the prop-valve for more front bias, followed up by bleeding the system well and going with a standard set of semi-metallic pads. These have the most "bite", albeit at the expense of dust and some noise. I'd also have your rotors turned, even if they appear completely flat, to remove any glazing/resin embedded in the surface.
 

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Pc-1 P mentions semi-metallic pads and that is something that resonates with me. So many times in the past I've removed ceramic pads toss them in the trash can and put the absolute cheapest semi-metallic pads I can get on a vehicle and seen a huge increase in braking performance. Sometimes I've worked on brakes for a long time changing boosters and master cylinders, and bleeding again and again only to find out that it had ceramic pads on it which I then swapped out and all my problems went away.
Might be worth your time to look into what pads you have and consider a change. After that, really the next step is upgrading to larger diameter rotors IE vanco or black magic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
OK, good info. I bled the crap out of the brakes with a pneumatic bleeder and jugs of new fluid, and that was 6 months ago so anything left in those lines should have worked it's way out by now. Plus, the brakes don't firm up by pumping them; they just stay mushy. I'm pretty confident air isn't the culprit. I set the proportioning valve at 50/50 based on advice from Dave (I think). It's supposed to take advantage of having the 8.8's disc brakes in the rear, but they don't perform any better (actually worse) than the Dana 35 drums. More bias to the front isn't any better based on my tests so far. I believe the front brake circuit on the valve always operates at 100%, and the adjustment only affects the rear brakes. Other than the brakes, I'm very happy with the setup I have now so changing tires isn't going to happen, and I'm not entertaining anything bigger either.

I have mixed feelings on the Dana 30. I agree that it is at it's functional limit with 35's, and possibly slightly beyond. It has worked for everything I've asked it to do and I've had zero problems with it, but I wasn't confident enough in it to invest an additional $1000 to install an ARB. I don't really need a front locker anyway as I rarely use the one in the rear for what I do. I just left the front with an open diff and figure I'll keep it that way until something changes my mind. Investing $500-1000 in brake calipers and rotors for the 30 is probably not going to happen for the same reason. So I guess I'll just work with what I've got on the 30, for now. The 8.8 is eligible for more of an investment though since I'm fully committed to it.

I think turning the rotors and checking the pads is probably the best place to start. I know the Dana 30 still has the same setup as when I bought it in 2014, and those discs may be the originals. They are probably glazed, and those pads must be at least 15 years old, but probably metallic since O'Reilly doesn't even offer a ceramic pad for it.

I replaced one disc on the 8.8 when I installed it in 2018, and all the pads. Will check to see what I got, but probably ceramic. Not sure if I had the remaining disc turned but I almost certainly did.

So hydroboost: I'm intrigued. I don't really know much about brake boosters or how they work. Vanco's hydroboost YJ setup runs $855, and Dave's 95 DD is about half that or less. Just assuming (for now) that other than replacing my pads and turning the discs, I leave the discs/calipers as they are, what would I get out of Dave's DD vs the hydroboost? And how big of a job is installing the hydroboost?
 

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An even simpler solution and one I will probably go with is a DD booster from a '95 YJ. That's what I suggest you start with. It's a bolt in replacement and all reports I read makes a great difference. I'm confident you'll notice a big improvement with a DD booster. Some '94 YJs had a DD booster but it's for anti-lock brakes and has a different part number than the '95 booster.
Once you have the '95 YJ DD booster installed, drive the Jeep for a while to see how satisfied you are with the improvement and go from there.

That is my plan, however, I can't find anyone that carries a '95 booster.
 

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LMNOP686 states in the #1 post on this thread that the '95 DD boosters are available at Dave's Customs. davescustomsunlimited.com
He goes on to state that his research indicates that a person needs the disc brake upgrade to get the full benefit of the DD booster. I'm not sure if he means you need the disc brake upgrade for the front D30 or the rear Ford 8.8.
In either case, from what I read here, the DD booster is far better at stopping than the older single diaphragm booster, even without the disc brake upgrade.

Other posters claim that the cheap brake pads actually stop our old heaps better than the more expensive pads.
I have new rotors and pads with 31" tires and can lock up my tires in a panic stop. I don't remember what pads I bought but I doubt that I would have bought ceramic pads. I think that any upgrade to the braking system is worthwhile.

To answer LMNOP686's question about the difference between the hydroboost and the DD booster setup, I'm sorry I can't help with the hydroboost part, but the DD booster should be an easy, no-mod swap. You'll need a '95 or newer master cylinder. The older MC isn't even close to fitting. Actually the brake lines exit the '95 MC from the opposite side than the '93 and older MCs and the brake lines on the newer MC are bubble flares, rather than what's on the older MC. It looks like it's a very simple matter to loosen the brake lines between the proportioning valve and the MC. Then turn them to aim at the new MC and replace the MC ends of the brake lines with bubble flares and fittings.

Good Luck, L.M.
 

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Just be aware the Dave's Customs booster and master are custom to Dave's. If you ever have a master failure you that to get it from him, not from the local auto parts store. I'm hoping to score an actual '95 DD booster somewhere. It's almost turned into a game.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
As per recommendations in this forum, I did a brake job all around. Replaced all pads with semi-metallic, and turned down my rusty and pitted front rotors. Rears were fine having been worked on in the last two years, minus the old mystery pads that the 8.8 came with. Results are probably an improvement but certainly not a night and day difference, which is exactly what I expected. There's always that initial bump from brand new pads and freshly turned rotors that really grabs hard, for a fleeting moment. So all in all, I at least now have a solid baseline for what the current setup is capable of.

I talked to Blaine at Black Magic, who is just right up the road from where I lived in SoCal for a decade+. Blaine sez dual diaphragm is good, but hydroboost is hands down the best way to go if your budget can support. Blaine specializes in disc and caliper upgrades vice the boosters, which I will be looking at after I've upgraded the booster. He also said the 8.8 is good to go with the stock disc brakes so no need to do anything there. It's the front axle that could use bigger discs and calipers, but it's about a $1000, which is a lot of $$ to sink into a Dana 30.

So I think I'm just going to let my current setup ride as-is for now, and then invest in the hydroboost when the budget will support. I'm sure that alone would be a significant improvement alone, then the disc/caliper upgrade is an option later to take it to the next level, possibly combined with a new front axle. I think this YJ is a lifetime attachment toy for me so I'm willing to sink cash into it over time.
 

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I think this YJ is a lifetime attachment toy for me so I'm willing to sink cash into it over time.
I feel the same way about mine.

You're more aware of your hopes and dreams for your Jeep than I can ever be, but if I was faced with the question you've posted, I'd look at the Waggy D44 mod that pc1p mentions. You don't seem to have enough confidence in your D30 with 35s to invest any money into it. That's reasonable in my opinion.
If you think the Waggy D44 will work for you, I'd start by researching how it's accomplished and what the goods and bads are when doing the swap. Then, I'd source an axle and overhaul it, adding whatever "good stuff" seems appropriate. In the meantime you can continue to drive the Jeep with the new pads and continue to budget for the hydroboost.

As far as your braking goes, If you have a lot of steep hills (or steep mountain roads like we have here in the Colorado Rockies) or pull a trailer, I'd go with the hydroboost first and then do the Waggy axle later.

For the way I use my YJ, a DD booster should be more than enough with my 31s. As I stated above, I've locked my tires in a panic stop. A DD booster will simply make it easier.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread, how certain are you that your current booster is operating at peak performance? Have you checked your engine vacuum and the vacuum to your booster?
Have you used a section of heater hose to listen to your booster while an assistant presses on the brake pedal with the engine running?
You seem to be an accomplished home mechanic and aware of how things work, but sometimes it's something obscure that causes an issue.
Never say never.

Not really offering advice, just thinking out loud.

Good Luck, L.M.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I feel the same way about mine.

You're more aware of your hopes and dreams for your Jeep than I can ever be, but if I was faced with the question you've posted, I'd look at the Waggy D44 mod that pc1p mentions. You don't seem to have enough confidence in your D30 with 35s to invest any money into it. That's reasonable in my opinion.
If you think the Waggy D44 will work for you, I'd start by researching how it's accomplished and what the goods and bads are when doing the swap. Then, I'd source an axle and overhaul it, adding whatever "good stuff" seems appropriate. In the meantime you can continue to drive the Jeep with the new pads and continue to budget for the hydroboost.

As far as your braking goes, If you have a lot of steep hills (or steep mountain roads like we have here in the Colorado Rockies) or pull a trailer, I'd go with the hydroboost first and then do the Waggy axle later.

For the way I use my YJ, a DD booster should be more than enough with my 31s. As I stated above, I've locked my tires in a panic stop. A DD booster will simply make it easier.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread, how certain are you that your current booster is operating at peak performance? Have you checked your engine vacuum and the vacuum to your booster?
Have you used a section of heater hose to listen to your booster while an assistant presses on the brake pedal with the engine running?
You seem to be an accomplished home mechanic and aware of how things work, but sometimes it's something obscure that causes an issue.
Never say never.

Not really offering advice, just thinking out loud.

Good Luck, L.M.

Good points all, Mac. Early in this project I looked at the Waggy 44 and that's a definite possibility later. I've talked to Pc1p a few times and he's really helped me out, so I'm content to copy his successes. However, after a lot of banging around the Grand Canyon area, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the Dana 30 is OK for my purposes, at least until it breaks. It's done everything I've asked of it, and with stock axle shafts and the vacuum disconnect working like a champ. That disconnect is super convenient so I'm not that motivated to ditch it. But all the same, I'm definitely wary of putting any money into the 30. I also don't want to have mismatched wheels between the front and rear, but I think I can fix that if I go the 44 route.

One thing I really would like down the road is an Atlas 4-speed transfer case. Mainly just for the convenience of having 3 low range options. But then, if I do a V8 conversion, the Atlas may be superfluous. Who knows, but that's a lot of $$ and time down the road so I can worry about it when I have a load of cash burning a hole in my pocket. If I go that route then a new front axle is a given.

As is, my brakes are perfectly serviceable. It's not like I have to put out a parachute or throw the anchor overboard to make a stop. But in traffic, on the freeway, they are a little suspect when the guy ahead does something stupid. But mainly, when I was coming down the Broken Arrow trail in Sedona, I had both feet on the brake pedal in 1st gear low, and that was just barely keeping my decent under control. Much like the camera puts on 20 lbs, it also takes off about 20° in angle, so the pictures below don't do justice to the slope. It's not the steepest thing a Jeep can handle but pretty pucker-y the first time nonetheless.

I've checked my vacuum at the engine and it's solidly 18 vacumachiggers (hg, bars, or something) or better. I haven't checked it at the booster and no idea if that's operating at 100%. Probably should I suppose, but I don't have any reason to think it's a problem. I could lock up my stock tires before I made it all better... I've never heard of using the heater hose stethoscope method to check the booster. Will have to give that a try.
 

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Yep, a 3 foot section of heater hose. Stick one end up to your ear and hold the other end close to where you suspect the noise you're hunting is coming from.
If you have the right sized funnel you can cram the pointed end into the hose and use the open end to completely cover your ear. It helps when you need to close out the noise of a running engine.

Kinda Bubbish, but it works. A cardboard tube from paper towels is an alternative.
I have a mechanics stethoscope and it's good for "hard" noises like a click or clack, but the good ol' heater hose seems to work best for "soft" noises.

Good Luck, L.M.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I personally know of two people that have tried dual-diaphragm boosters on their rigs - one using a 95-style and the other now using a DCU (Dave's Customs) style (after first running a 95 dual-diaphragm style) and neither are satisfied with results and both say it wasn't worth the time or money...

The one (a member on this page and I'll see if I can get him to chime in) is running the DCU booster PLUS WJ knuckles and calipers. I got a chance to drive it and while the brakes felt good, they struggled to lock-up 31" tires on pavement. I will have to double check but I am fairly certain he was running the Vanco kit with the factory single diaphragm and could easily lock up the brakes. I have known others to run WJ knuckles with the factory booster and master and have good pedal feel and ability to lock-up at least 33" tires.

At the end of the day, the brake options on the D30 just kind of suck. While there are some common "fixes", as you are finding they seem to have mixed results and opinions. This is why I stand by my assessment that the D30 is a '33" tire axle". The failure prone unit-bearings and marginal brakes seem to reach their "braking point" (see what I did there!) at the 33" mark. Anything larger and they really struggle...

The only for-sure option to get a strong pedal with a D30 is to go with a hydroboost setup. While pricey, they're rock solid and strong. For me, jumping up to the Waggy D44 with true 1/2-ton brakes was one of the main reasons I went that route. Even then I experimented with different pads to get the feel and performance I was after. Now, I can lock up 35" tires at highway speeds on hot blacktop without hesitation. Heck I even stall out my 3700# rig, running down a 15% grade in 4LO with how power the brakes are!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj4vVRjK2Ys

If I were you, I'd start by adjusting the prop-valve for more front bias, followed up by bleeding the system well and going with a standard set of semi-metallic pads. These have the most "bite", albeit at the expense of dust and some noise. I'd also have your rotors turned, even if they appear completely flat, to remove any glazing/resin embedded in the surface.

I read your build page a while ago on the D44 swap and I entertained doing it myself, but then decided I could defer that until much later when all the more pressing issues had been resolved, which they now are. I think it's probably likely that I will do it at some point down the road, but at least for now, the D30 has been a solid performer, other than the brakes. I think I will install a Vanco hydroboost as part of the long term build, and before I do anything about the front axle. Hopefully that alone would solve most of my brake issues, but I suspect it won't be that simple. It does seem that going with a D44 makes a lot more sense than investing $1000 in brake discs & calipers for the D30. I'm also assuming that the OEM single diaphragm booster is simply beyond it's capability with 35s and will have to be replaced with something else regardless of what axles I have.

Do you have a write-up on your brakes? I didn't see one on your build page. I'm not clear what you're using for a booster, just that you have the D44 brakes on the front. I want to be able to get that smoking stop on mine with the 35s. I'd be interested in picking up a narrow D44 as a target of opportunity, and then I can work on it at my leisure and have it ready for when I'm motivated to do the install.
 

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As is, my brakes are perfectly serviceable. It's not like I have to put out a parachute or throw the anchor overboard to make a stop.
Funny you mention that...



My parachute obviously was not there for function, but the crowd loved it. This was at our county fair back in August and people are still talking about it.

Anywho... back to the topic at hand. Like Luckymac, I have a TJ DD booster that I will be putting in mine. Since it isn't in there yet I can not speak to the improvements. My braking is marginal at best. I have a Dana 44 and Ford 9" with a disk brake conversion. My issue has to be on the booster side because I have much larger than stock brakes on the axles. I am going to start with the TJ MC, but may upgrade to the Dodge 2500 MC if that isn't enough. I have researched this topic a fair amount myself and you may see some results from the Grand Cherokee front brakes. They have larger rotors and 2 piston calipers. Again, no personal experience. I have found all the same stuff as you in that there seems to be tons of conflicting data out there.
 

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I wanted to come back here and try to give as much relevant information about a dual Diaphragm upgrade as I could as there is a lot of misinformation/information with no reasoning floating around a lot of the forums.


After a couple months of internet scrounging, I found a '95 Wrangler Dual Diaphragm booster. No one makes it anymore, which stinks, so I had to go used. I chose this direction because the Dave's custom's (AND all the ebay specials) dual diaphragm upgrade requires their proprietary master cylinder to go with it. I reached out to Dave and asked. My decision is not a knock on Dave's stuff. It is probably amazing quality and if I hadn't found a stock '95 I probably would have gone that route, however, I like to stay as factory as I can when doing stuff. Most importantly, I didn't want to have to special order a master cylinder if I ever needed one. The auto parts stores have tons of Master cylinders, meaning to me it's used on a lot of other things. The other option is to go with a TJ brake booster. It is dual diaphragm just as the '95 is, but has a different length rod going to pedal. The concept of cutting said rod and welding it appropriately does not sit well with me. I know it can be done and can be done well and safely, I just dont like the idea. Personal preference.


Now the '95 4.0L is the only one that came with the Dual Diaphragm. I believe the random '94 with the ABS option may have it, but I cannot confirm or deny.


I bought the used '95 Booster, and a new '95 Master Cylinder. The '95 Master Cylinder changes the (in my '94s case) standard pitch brake lines to metric. They are different sizes on both the '94 and the '95, but the line size is the same. I assume it is designed that way to make sure you don't mix the front and back bores. The '95 also switches the lines from passenger side to drivers side. The '95 also switches to a bubble flare instead of a double flare. I bought a M12x1 (which is bubble) to 3/8x24 (which is double) adapter for the front and a M10x1 to 3/8x24 adapter for the rear. I bought a 4 pack (only need 2) of 3/16 line 3/8x24 brake line ends. I then bought a 3' - 3/16" brake line that already had a double flare on it. I didn't matter what size connector was on it, as I was was just using the line and taking advantage of the flare already on it.


I removed and cut the old lines so that I could reuse the end that plugged into the proportioning valve. I cut my 3' line in half, removed both adapters, slid the plugs for the proportioning valve onto the pieces with the flares already on it, bent the lines as needed, then slid on the 3/8x24 ends and double flared to finish. Installed the M12x1 adapter onto the front bore, the M10X1 onto the back bore and tightened down my new lines.


I also had to go in and adjust the brake booster rod as it left the pedal too high and basically activated the brakes all the time. The short version of that is, I put the master cylinder on, felt the rod bottom out. Removed the master, screwed it in (takes a socket and a 90 deg pair of pliers to hold the nut at the base), put the master back on to check. Repeat until I felt like it was just touching, then went in and turned the rod one more full turn.


Some other pertinent information.



The '95 master cylinder has a plastic reservoir with a screw top. Anything with a metal or squeeze style top is not a '95 master cylinder. It could be another year's master, or a one off like these kits provide.



I kept the stock proportioning valve as I still have a D30/D35 with drums. When I do my 8.8 and disc I will replace the prop valve with something I can adjust as discs require more fluid flow then drums.


As far as performance. I decided to do this upgrade because I had a cement truck cut me off and I barely got out of the way. I could not lock up the 33x12.5 tires if my life depended on it, which it almost did. NOTE: One of the first things I did when I bought this Jeep in July was replace front caliper/pads/rotors and all the rear hardware including wheel cylinders. I do this with all used vehicles I buy. I had also done all of this prior to the cement truck and believe that was the only reason I survived. Now, after the dual diaphragm upgrade I can lock all 4 33x12.5 up. Pedal is confident inspiring and I am extremely happy with the results.


I hope this clears up some information for someone. I had a hard time deciphering WHY to do some of this as quite a bit of the information across all the boards are "you need to do "this" because someone said so" versus the math and the rational. I'm not saying my rational is 100% solid, but I explained why I chose it and actual factual information on lines sizes, adapters, etc.


One last closing thought. I know people have suggested hydro boosted brakes. This may be the perfect way to go, however, the $1000 cost (I paid < $175 including the broken old flaring tool I had to rebuy) was a little rough and it prevented me from doing any more real research on it, but I don't like the thought of the the motor stalling in the middle of an incline and I lose the power adder. This may not be as big a deal as it is in my head, but I will reconsider later down the road and do some proper research on it.


Rob
 

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Rob, I just did a similar upgrade to my brakes and like you mine is a 94, 4.0 manual with 33’s. I do have the Ford 8.8 with disc’s though. After many hours spent researching on the internet I finally called and spoke to Blain.

He suggested, like many others, to get the 95 DD Booster and correct oem master cylinder. He also stated that the proportioning valve is the same and no need for replacement nor any BS of taking the o-ring out. Clearly stated “leave it alone it works fine with rear discs”.

So I followed his advice and over the holidays I redid my brakes. I used a good junkyard 95 DD booster, O’reilly’s remanufactured front calipers, O’reilly’s Brake Best cheap semi metallic pads at all four corners, New AC Delco master cylinder and made up new lines for the connection between the master and proportioning valve. My rotors where nearly new with less the 2k on them so i just scotched brighted them.

After bedding in the brake pads, repeated 50mph to almost a complete stop of hard braking, the new brake setup is far superior to what i had before!!!! I now have confidence and piece of mind where as before I kept my distance from any other vehicle.

Now i know this is not hydro boosted brakes but it is totally acceptable performance for what I do. JM 02.
 
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