Jeep Wrangler Forum banner

21 - 40 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,002 Posts
While all of this is workable with the add-a-switch, I prefer the dedicated secondary fuse box set ups for anything aftermarket now. I did my time working with PWM and CANbus and if something does go wrong in an aftermarket device - well - most shops are asking everything aftermarket to be removed before they even diagnose it now.

If it's connected to anything in a stock system and it has an issue, that additional wiring will get the blame right away (even if it has nothing to do with it). I simply cut to the chase at this point, I order a Spod type fuse panel and use that. Everything but winches goes there. If someone doesn't want that, I use a simple relay harness for each item. More labor cost though.

This makes dealing with it later a lot easier. Have a problem, throw the main off on the accessories wiring and retest. Dealer wants you to "remove" it first. Easy, one wire on each battery post. I've been using the Apollointech brand from Amazon for a few years now, they offer overhead switch panels and a pillar switch panels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,922 Posts
While all of this is workable with the add-a-switch, I prefer the dedicated secondary fuse box set ups for anything aftermarket now. I did my time working with PWM and CANbus and if something does go wrong in an aftermarket device - well - most shops are asking everything aftermarket to be removed before they even diagnose it now.

If it's connected to anything in a stock system and it has an issue, that additional wiring will get the blame right away (even if it has nothing to do with it). I simply cut to the chase at this point, I order a Spod type fuse panel and use that. Everything but winches goes there. If someone doesn't want that, I use a simple relay harness for each item. More labor cost though.

This makes dealing with it later a lot easier. Have a problem, throw the main off on the accessories wiring and retest. Dealer wants you to "remove" it first. Easy, one wire on each battery post. I've been using the Apollointech brand from Amazon for a few years now, they offer overhead switch panels and a pillar switch panels.
I'm using a Blue Sea yacht-box, but yeah, that's why.
isolate isolate isolate

Easier to hook up a 'scope later yerself too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Keep in mind the rearview is switched power, only comes on when you turn the key.
If you are looking to use a dashcam that has a park mode it will need uninterrupted power, easy way is actually the ODBII port, there is constant power/ground provided in that port.
Many dashcam makers have an ODBII port adapter for this reason, and they know every vehicle on the road has one.

OBDII was introduced 1996, so there are quite a few vehicles on the road that do not have it. And there are 1000s of vehicles 1996 and newer that have no form of ODB at all in them on the road.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,346 Posts
OBDII was introduced 1996, so there are quite a few vehicles on the road that do not have it. And there are 1000s of vehicles 1996 and newer that have no form of ODB at all in them on the road.
really, what vehicles per se would fall under this? Last I remember it was a federally mandated requirement that all vehicles from (approximately as some vehicles were exempt up until 1997 or 1998) 1996 and after to have OBD2 installed and a port accessible....



All cars built since January 1, 1996 have OBD-II systems. Manufacturers started incorporating OBD-II in various models as early as 1994. Some early OBD-II cars were not 100% compliant. <Click here> to see the dates OBD-II started being included on specific makes and models.

There are five basic OBD-II protocols in use, each with minor variations on the communication pattern between the on-board diagnostic computer and the scanner console or tool. While there have been some manufacturer changes between protocols in the past few years, as a rule of thumb, Chrysler products and all European and most Asian imports use ISO 9141 circuitry or KWP2000. GM cars and light trucks use SAE J1850 VPW (Variable Pulse Width Modulation), and Fords use SAE J1850 PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) communication patterns. <Click here> to see which cars use each system. CAN is the newest protocol added to the OBD-II specification, and it is mandated for all 2008 and newer model years.

You may also tell which protocol is used on a specific automobile by examining the connector socket carefully. If the dash connector has a pin in the #7 position and no pin at #2 or #10, then the car has the ISO 9141 protocol or KWP2000. If no pin is present in the #7 position, the car uses an SAE protocol. If there are pins in positions #7 and #2 and/or #10, the car may use the ISO protocol. The CAN protocol uses pins #6 and #14.

While there are OBD-II electrical connection protocols, the command set is fixed according to the SAE J1979 standard.


more info can be found at http://www.obdii.com/background.html if interested....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
really, what vehicles per se would fall under this? Last I remember it was a federally mandated requirement that all vehicles from (approximately as some vehicles were exempt up until 1997 or 1998) 1996 and after to have OBD2 installed and a port accessible....

Motorcycles are vehicles, and they don't have OBD systems, and there are 1000s of them on the roads.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
899 Posts
Cannibus [ˈkanəbəs] - Cannabis is an annual, dioecious, flowering herb. The leaves are palmately compound or digitate, with serrate leaflets. The first pair of leaves usually have a single leaflet, the number gradually increasing up to a maximum of about thirteen leaflets per leaf (usually seven or nine), depending on variety and growing conditions.
Get involved in this "Cannibus" and the other CanBus will become PERFECTLY CLEAR.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
899 Posts
The CAN BUS is a communications network. Controller Area Network. It consists of 2 wires.
All of the buttons (except the cruise control buttons) on the steering wheel of my '14 Rubi stopped working just about the time the cams went out and it got traded in. The stearlership told me that it was either the steering wheel buttons themselves or the CanBus was out. Because of the cams going out and being replaced, I traded it in due to mis-trust issues with the quality of work done by the stealership.

My question is this: Can the buttons on the steering wheel not working be caused by the CanBus going out or should I NOT take my vehicles back to that stealership for any warranty work? Sounds like a CanBus going out will affect much more that just the buttons on the steering wheel.

Like Captain Skip said, I was trained and learned on Plugs, Points, and condenser cars, but I did understand your explanation of the CanBus.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,966 Posts
If the CAN BUS went out, pretty much nothing would work.


I wouldn't trust a dealership's word in saying the CAN BUS may have gone out. The likely explanation. When people don't understand how something works, or what it is, or have ever seen a diagram of that system, they blame that item because they don't understand it...in this case, the CAN BUS.


It would also be very difficult for the CAN BUS to "go out". Every module on the CAN BUS has what is called a CAN transceiver in it. Each module's transceiver is connected to the 2 wires of the CAN bus. It's the transceivers of each module which forms the CAN BUS. In other words, the CAN BUS is not a single item which can fail.


Below is a simplified diagram of a typical CAN BUS network. Each of those nodes are things like the PCM, BCM, ECM, WCM, RADIO,etc, etc. Someone saying the CAN BUS went out is kind of like saying the internet is broken, just because your computer was unable to connect to your wifi.






From the description of your symptoms. It sounds like you may have a failing clock spring which can cause all those switches on the stalk to not respond. There's a recall on the clock spring, just in case you may not have had that recall work done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
820 Posts
Motorcycles are vehicles, and they don't have OBD systems, and there are 1000s of them on the roads.

Are we talking AMF HD days or eariler? Then sure totally agree with you.
But even the Sporty has been full on fi since '04, the last of HD line to go fi.
What do you think runs the fi? There is a ODBII equivalent on all bikes also.
And I don't care what the name brand is, if its got fuel injection it has a Computer to hold a map for the O2 sensors and altitude calculations.
Or your using a Power Commander to bypass it all, which is essentially a stand alone fuel management system, or a copy cat of the Power Commander.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,966 Posts
Motorcycles are vehicles, and they don't have OBD systems, and there are 1000s of them on the roads.

I don't know the history of Motorcycles but I know all recent HD motorcycles have a CAN bus.

The company I work for is a supplier of navigation radios and factory installed premium audio options for HD. Both the radio and amplifier connect to the CAN bus and communicate with the ECM of the motorcycle over the CAN BUS. The ECM stores and sends the bikes VIN over the CAN BUS to the navigation radio where the radio registers/stores that VIN. So if someone with sticky fingers comes along, decides they would like a HD navigation radio, they steal the radio out of the bike and install it in another bike, the radio knows that the VIN it is now receiving from the ECM does not match the one which is stored inside of the radio and the radio will not work unless you take that bike to a HD Dealer, they connect to the CAN bus via the OBD2 port and have the CAN tools to be able to reset the VIN which was originally registered inside of the radio. Of course before they do that, they may read the VIN which is stored inside of the radio, determine who the original owner/bike that radio went into and contact that person to check and see if the radio was stolen or sold. ;)


The radio also communicates with the amplifier over the CAN BUS on HD bikes, just like it does if you have the Alpine or Infinity premium audio system on our JK's.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
172 Posts
All of the buttons (except the cruise control buttons) on the steering wheel of my '14 Rubi stopped working just about the time the cams went out and it got traded in.
Did they disconnect the battery when they did the work? I had a battery replacement and when I left my turn signals and other items connected to the steering column did not work. Disconnected and reconnected the battery and something reset and all was working again.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
899 Posts
Did they disconnect the battery when they did the work? I had a battery replacement and when I left my turn signals and other items connected to the steering column did not work. Disconnected and reconnected the battery and something reset and all was working again.
The buttons stopped working about a week before the problems with the cams/followers surfaced. I was going to take it in for the buttons, then the ticking started. Not caused by the stealership. They just stopped working while I was driving it. Anyway, the '14 is long gone. I was just wondering about the diagnosis that it MIGHT be the CanBus.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,922 Posts
The buttons stopped working about a week before the problems with the cams/followers surfaced. I was going to take it in for the buttons, then the ticking started. Not caused by the stealership. They just stopped working while I was driving it. Anyway, the '14 is long gone. I was just wondering about the diagnosis that it MIGHT be the CanBus.
Intermittent shorts in the bus can have very funny symptoms and they can come and go like the wind. A gremlin short might just show up if you toggle one switch and might go away when you key-cycle. Or it might be two switches used in a particular order. Or a turn signal.
I've had two so far, one caused by a bad turn signal bulb and one by a pinched wire under the passenger seat. Took minutes for me to figure out the bulb and months for the dealer to pinpoint the pinched wire.

So for your instrument problem, I would've started with the clockspring and then gotten out my Sherlock Holmes hat & multimeter later.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
899 Posts
I could see the writing on the wall. First the oil galley plug falls out and allows oil to NOT get to the cams (78k) causing the ABS and TC and CEL lights to some on. Then the steering wheel buttons stop working (102K) THEN the 2 of the 4 cams fail and need replaced. Hmmm. 107k and she's GONE!!!! Can't trust her anymore. Really feel sorry for the guy that picked her up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
Cannibus [ˈkanəbəs] - Cannabis is an annual, dioecious, flowering herb. The leaves are palmately compound or digitate, with serrate leaflets. The first pair of leaves usually have a single leaflet, the number gradually increasing up to a maximum of about thirteen leaflets per leaf (usually seven or nine), depending on variety and growing conditions.
Shouldn't this be the "sticky?" Haha

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,922 Posts
A buddy of mine works at R&S (used to be here in this lab) and makes a series of videos that 'splains electrical stuff. I asked him to make a PWM video.
He's one of the engineers that helped me map all of the PWM JK circuits long ago when Trucklite needed to know how to kick the LED flicker.

Interesting example of what he does:

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
All of the buttons (except the cruise control buttons) on the steering wheel of my '14 Rubi stopped working just about the time the cams went out and it got traded in. The stearlership told me that it was either the steering wheel buttons themselves or the CanBus was out. Because of the cams going out and being replaced, I traded it in due to mis-trust issues with the quality of work done by the stealership.

My question is this: Can the buttons on the steering wheel not working be caused by the CanBus going out or should I NOT take my vehicles back to that stealership for any warranty work? Sounds like a CanBus going out will affect much more that just the buttons on the steering wheel.

Like Captain Skip said, I was trained and learned on Plugs, Points, and condenser cars, but I did understand your explanation of the CanBus.
IMHO...If the Service Manager was "talking down" to you rather than explaining the "LIN Bus" connection through the Instrument Panel/Multifunction Switches on the Steering Wheel, that's one thing.

If the Service Manager wasn't....the technician can't read an Oscilloscope...and throwing parts at it...1)Multifunction Switch-Turn Signals, 2)Multifunction Switch-Wiper, 3)New Dash Cluster, and finally 4)TIPM......Hope it's under WARRANTY....or as you did...Trade!
 
21 - 40 of 40 Posts
Top