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Good article about the Pentastar....

After reading about casting sand and blocked heater cores in this forum, this is the part that made me chuckle.

"....the heads are sand-cast, and undergo serious inspections for cleanliness before reaching assembly plants. The machining department has two parts-washing operations for the heads; one plant worker wrote, “They use an 80 horsepower motor with a 2,500 psi pump about the size of a small diesel motor. To say they come out clean is a gross understatement. The only ‘dirt’ problems I can remember was, a couple of times, having oil pump relief valves sticking with aluminum chips from the vendor — who had all Hell to pay because of it.”
 

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Hmmmm......" The Challenger's 13 horsepower increase is due to "a more aggressively designed intake air system" which increased airflow from 214 to 220 g/s."
 

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Good article about the Pentastar....

After reading about casting sand and blocked heater cores in this forum, this is the part that made me chuckle.

"....the heads are sand-cast, and undergo serious inspections for cleanliness before reaching assembly plants. The machining department has two parts-washing operations for the heads; one plant worker wrote, “They use an 80 horsepower motor with a 2,500 psi pump about the size of a small diesel motor. To say they come out clean is a gross understatement. The only ‘dirt’ problems I can remember was, a couple of times, having oil pump relief valves sticking with aluminum chips from the vendor — who had all Hell to pay because of it.
LOL! I guess he forgot about the hundreds (maybe thousands) of people that have had a hell of time with that casting sand blocking heater cores, radiators, etc.
 

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Yep, including a couple of active threads. I don't want to relive some of the quality control threads vs Toyota and Honda but this should be a relatively simple to solve. I know there are a lot of oil and cooling passages in the heads and block but this is not rocket science.
 

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Yep, including a couple of active threads. I don't want to relive some of the quality control threads vs Toyota and Honda but this should be a relatively simple to solve. I know there are a lot of oil and cooling passages in the heads and block but this is not rocket science.
Exactly, and the problem has been going on since the Pentastar engine was first introduced. Hard to believe they haven't resolved it yet. :jawdrop:
 

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This can't be a cheap problem for Jeep in both warranty service and customer sat but maybe the bean counters decided it is more expensive to add one more step to the cleaning process than to deal with the consequences. It could also be a supplier issue. Maybe only the heads from one manufacturer have this problem but the demand is high. The GC also runs this engine and few more in the product line so they can't cutoff any head suppliers.
 

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Of an interesting note to me was the recommendation of non-synthetic oil. I have used synthetics since 1986 and planned on switching to synthetic on my new JKU. What are most people using for oil? Another interesting tid bit is that this is the first forum I have been on where a sticky about oil doesn't slap you in the face, unless I am blind! LOL!
 

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LOL! I guess he forgot about the hundreds (maybe thousands) of people that have had a hell of time with that casting sand blocking heater cores, radiators, etc.
To be fair to Chrysler, the article stopped at the cleaning portion...

Once they are cleaned at the molecular level, technicians throw the heads out the back door where they land in a pile of dirt to break their fall.
 

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Hmmmm......" The Challenger's 13 horsepower increase is due to "a more aggressively designed intake air system" which increased airflow from 214 to 220 g/s."
that would be 20 hp and 10ft lbs for a wrangler. i'm sure that part from the dealer cost a couple grand. anyone know exactly what is different and the costs?
 

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The thing is, the same motor, with different applications, requires different components to optimize them for their particular job. The Challenger set up in a Jeep May very well be awesome on the road but totally useless off-road. I am sure Chrysler has a reason for their specific set up for the wrangler.

One of the major components between car engines and truck engines is the cam shaft. There is no doubt in my mind that the cam would also have to be changed for the different intake to work. So If in fact one wanted to use said Challenger parts in the Wrangler, a custom tune would have to be loaded in order to compensate for changed.
Sounds like it's getting pretty costly to me. SC may be cheaper.
 

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The thing is, the same motor, with different applications, requires different components to optimize them for their particular job. The Challenger set up in a Jeep May very well be awesome on the road but totally useless off-road. I am sure Chrysler has a reason for their specific set up for the wrangler.

One of the major components between car engines and truck engines is the cam shaft. There is no doubt in my mind that the cam would also have to be changed for the different intake to work. So If in fact one wanted to use said Challenger parts in the Wrangler, a custom tune would have to be loaded in order to compensate for changed.
Sounds like it's getting pretty costly to me. SC may be cheaper.
This is a great point. It's not like the good ol' days when it was simple to swap parts or whole components like engines between vehicles.Today the Wrangler is like most other vehicles where almost every moving part in the vehicle is integrated and computer controlled (ECU,PCM, CAN Bus, ESP, OBD). Replacing any significant part requires reprogramming the whole system. This is something that is barely within the capabilities of Jeep engineers themselves if you look at how the Wrangler operates at times.

Before swapping parts because of the increased max torque and hp specs on parts from another vehicle you need to look at the respective curves to make sure their is a benefit in the rpm range the Jeep operates in. BTW, in the not too distant future we will probably be having this conversation about suspension systems as they become computer controlled.

Regarding the the whole casting sand problem just consider that Chrysler opened up a brand new engine plant outside of the country (Saltillo) to expand Pentastar production when these problems started. This is not like making donuts, given that it took a couple billion dollars of facilities, equipment and hundreds of new employees. Some of the 3.6s that first went into Wranglers were built less than a year after the plant opened. These type of problems occur in many other industries in the same situation. It's Chrysler's fault for not vetting the production output 100% before releasing product but they have a huge market demand for these engines. If not they would not have sold 3 million of them to date.
 

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This is a great point. It's not like the good ol' days when it was simple to swap parts or whole components like engines between vehicles.Today the Wrangler is like most other vehicles where almost every moving part in the vehicle is integrated and computer controlled (ECU,PCM, CAN Bus, ESP, OBD). Replacing any significant part requires reprogramming the whole system. This is something that is barely within the capabilities of Jeep engineers themselves if you look at how the Wrangler operates at times.

Before swapping parts because of the increased max torque and hp specs on parts from another vehicle you need to look at the respective curves to make sure their is a benefit in the rpm range the Jeep operates in. BTW, in the not too distant future we will probably be having this conversation about suspension systems as they become computer controlled.

Regarding the the whole casting sand problem just consider that Chrysler opened up a brand new engine plant outside of the country (Saltillo) to expand Pentastar production when these problems started. This is not like making donuts, given that it took a couple billion dollars of facilities, equipment and hundreds of new employees. Some of the 3.6s that first went into Wranglers were built less than a year after the plant opened. These type of problems occur in many other industries in the same situation. It's Chrysler's fault for not vetting the production output 100% before releasing product but they have a huge market demand for these engines. If not they would not have sold 3 million of them to date.
I wonder if a different optimization, flash, cam, computer, etc. has anything to do with the head failures in the 2012 Wranglers? Aren't certain Chrysler products of the same year less prone to the left cylinder head problems? I realize Wranglers weren't the only Chrysler with the head problems, but weren't there more of them in Wranglers? Just food for thought.
 

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I wonder if a different optimization, flash, cam, computer, etc. has anything to do with the head failures in the 2012 Wranglers? Aren't certain Chrysler products of the same year less prone to the left cylinder head problems? I realize Wranglers weren't the only Chrysler with the head problems, but weren't there more of them in Wranglers? Just food for thought.
My buddy works at a dealership. He said he has done the highest number of head swaps on mini-vans, with the Wrangler in second. Also did a couple of Challengers.

I think the problem is throughout the 2012 models.
 

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My buddy works at a dealership. He said he has done the highest number of head swaps on mini-vans, with the Wrangler in second. Also did a couple of Challengers.

I think the problem is throughout the 2012 models.
It makes perfect sense and is not surprising given that the engine is used in over a dozen Chrysler vehicles alone. It is the Chrysler's cornerstone engine platform so they have to be paying a lot of attention to this problem. It's probably already been addressed and we are now just seeing the effects of the initial runs of faulty engines.
 

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Of an interesting note to me was the recommendation of non-synthetic oil. I have used synthetics since 1986 and planned on switching to synthetic on my new JKU. What are most people using for oil? Another interesting tid bit is that this is the first forum I have been on where a sticky about oil doesn't slap you in the face, unless I am blind! LOL!
There are many, many threads about oil and synthetic or non synthetic and which brand is the best.

Do a search and you will be entertained for quite awhile. lol
 

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My buddy works at a dealership. He said he has done the highest number of head swaps on mini-vans, with the Wrangler in second. Also did a couple of Challengers.

I think the problem is throughout the 2012 models.
Good to know the stats, I thought Wrangler was on top. I knew it was across the line up, I was wondering if it was more concentrated in one vehicle and if the tune had anything to do with it.

Does he have any intel on if the casting sand issue has been resolved or not? From what I've read it's been popping up in 2014's now. I realize its a small % but even so, cleaning casting sand has to be one of the most basic operations of all. Just about every automaker uses sand cast parts, and Chrysler is the only one I'm aware of having problems with it. There's also a possibility casting sand along with a poorly designed head could have been contributing to some the head failures. They improved the water passages in the heads, maybe some of them were getting plugged up? No one ever came clean with the cause. I'm glad the head appears to be history now.
 

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He said he has seen this a few times. It isn't exclusive to the JK, in fact its not even exclusive to the Pentastar. He has repaired the same problem in Avengers and 200's with the 2.4 liter 4 banger. Yikes.
 
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