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I've Tried, I've REALLY Tried. . .

7K views 50 replies 29 participants last post by  jeep63 
#1 ·
. . .but I friggin' HATE the NSG370. This is not a rant. Here's what I hate about the setup:

- Absolutely NO feedback in the clutch
- Grinds going into reverse. . .even when I select a forward gear first
- WEAK starts. . .and even after all the programming, etc., still stalls
- Changed the fluid to Royal Purple. . .still shifts like dogsh*t

I've been driving manual for over 30 years, and I have N-E-V-E-R ground gears like I do with this awful contraption. For the record, I've driven old CJ's, panel trucks, pickup trucks and one Dodge Weapons carrier with no issues. So this is NOT a "learn how to drive a Jeep/stick" thing.

My XTerra had a beautiful transmission that shifted light and tight. Never came out of gear, never a grind or a rattle. That thing was a hoss.

All I can say is...this is why the Germans lose wars.

The best part is that NOBODY makes an adapter to at least give us a fighting chance to put a decent gearbox in there. I would kill for an Aisen/Warner right about now.

I guess my only option is to put in a small block Chevy. Any suggestions on transmission swaps that MIGHT be possible are welcome. I have called everyone from Novak to Advance Adapters and nobody makes an adapter for this motor.

:atomic:
 
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#3 ·
And I never thought I would say this. . .but I'm headed that way. What a turd.

At least with GM and Chevy, you had CHOICES. I mean, I can do a swap. I have the tools, etc. to do it. But. . .I don't have the opportunity thanks to Chrysler.

I really wish Ford would buy Jeep. I've always hated Chrysler.
 
#4 ·
I believe there is a recall for those with grinding issues when putting it in reverse. Something about an obstruction holding it out of going all the way into reverse. I ain't sure, ours does not have the issue.
Additionally, better gearing will make it much easier to drive. Reducing the throttle lag also can help, See Pedal Commander or iDrive for that.
Finally, do you have the hill assist or whatever it is called where it holds the brake on as you are taking off (to prevent it from rolling backwards as you are letting out the clutch)? Some turn that system off, but I found better results once I learned how that system works. Avoid being real hard on the brakes when you push in the clutch, as it holds that pedal pressure. If you are hard on the brakes when you push in the clutch it will hold that while you are letting out the clutch. That makes it much more likely that you will stall. Minimum brake pedal pressure, or no brake pedal pressure, while you push in the clutch tends to work better.
Honestly, ours has better gearing and we have no problems with the gearbox. I installed a pedal commander type widget and thought it was much better (before the re-gear). But after the re-gear the widget died so we removed it and found with proper gearing it did not need the widget. I have a new widget, an iDrive, but have not installed it yet. I will get to it someday.
I would like a better motor, but I am OK with the trans.
 
#5 ·
Everything you say is 100% true. So here's what I've done thus far:

- Replaced the PCM with one from DiabloSport (I've got it set on the performance crawl tune)
- Throttle body spacer (helps take the last bit of lag out of the throttle)
- Cold air intake
- Crawler exhaust
- Changed all fluids to Royal Purple (Synchromesh in the tranny)
- FULLY disabled the hill start assist for sissies
- FULLY disabled the traction control bullsh*t with a kill switch

I'm running 3:73 gears. I'm actually thinking that I MIGHT be willing to spring for a new clutch. I've heard the heavier flywheel on the Centerforce Dual Friction units makes stalling a thing of the past.

What gear ratio did you opt for?
 
#20 ·
Hi 72blazerdude,

To check your Jeep for recalls, you can enter your VIN at recalls.mopar.com
Please let us know if you have any further questions or concerns!

Darlene
Jeep Social Care Specialist
 
#11 ·
And to think that POS is made in Germany!

Very frustrating, especially given how good the manual tranny is in my BMW...
 
#12 ·
There is a way to improve things ever so slightly. Put some good synthetic oil in there, like Redline MTL. Makes shifting smoother, especially when cold.
 
#42 ·
Dude...follow up. Just finally got around to changing the RP out to MTL. I really wish I had taken your advice sooner. There is a big difference in how this thing shifts now. I changed it yesterday afternoon and drove from Richmond to Lynchburg. It was smooth and quiet and I think it felt tighter...as if the tolerances were closer. I guess that makes sense given what gear oil does and how well regarded Redline is.

Anyway, feedback for you is that your advice was spot the hell on, my brother!
 
#13 ·
I think I may be one of the lucky ones. Not a great transmission, but none of the problems that some have experienced. Redline MTL improved things.

Maybe try out the B&M Sport Shifter.
 
#14 ·
I don't mind the transmission.
The gear ratios seem just right...
At first, I had a hard time finding 6th, but it's now second nature.
At first, I had the crunch/grind/pop-outta reverse, but, I seem to have overcome that.
The shifter needs work... maybe someday I'll splurge for the B&M, but, price and full belly skids have put that on the back burner... ok, totally off the stove.

I hate hate hate drive by wire throttle... good god it's unresponsive.

The hydro clutch has no feel, and I long for a cable version.
I've gotten used to all of it tho, and actually enjoy it these days... but, it is also now my only manual vehicle... well, I still have my street strip Mustang with cable dual clutch, cable throttle and Hurst shifter atop an A5 trans... and that is pure bliss... but, that only gets driven a few times a year.
So I've gotten used the the Jeep, and no longer dislike it.
Is it good? No.
But when your reference point is total bliss and rarely experienced, the Jeep is fine.
Oh, 37's and 5.13's... otherwise stock (speedo programmed).
 
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#16 ·
With the grinding into reverse, how long do you have the clutch in before trying to go into gear? It may just be that the box is still spinning if you do it too soon. I wait a second or 2 & it is not an issue, but if I go straight in as soon as the clutch is in, I'll get a bit.


I still stall occasionally, & can only dream of 3.73 or 4.1, I have the 3.21 diffs. What I particularly dislike about the box, though, is that reverse is geared higher than 1st is! Who needs to go faster backwards than you do in first forwards!? 60+kph backwards? WHY!?


I will say that once I went to a new slave cylinder & the centerforce clutch & pressure plates, (still original flywheel), it was much lighter, but that is probably due to the slave being very worn & stiff.
 
#17 ·
The six speed is the same one they’ve used for last 12 years. I had to let go my beloved TJ 2006 with that same manual tranny. So they say. I searched and searched for a manual JK and most were autos. I only found a couple and they were both out of state .

Big drive but I finally got a JK with manual and so glad!!! I can’t even believe it’s the same transmission. It’s smoother, but the other one worked great too . This one has a shorter throw. Once in a great while my old one would grind going onto reverse, can you just Gotta move the vehicle a tad and she slides right in . ; ) I love that about manual. I hate autos. So boring to drive .

Mine is just stock, 3.73, and I like it better than with my rubis (tj) lower gears. 1st was barely useable. OP, Either you don’t like manuals, Or somethings wrong with yours , hopefully under warranty if the latter.
 
#21 ·
My 15JK is great as well. Loved the manual since day one and no problems. Hope OP gets it figured out.

4.56 gears for the past few years and before with 3.73 it is great.
 
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#19 ·
i think its the whole package that makes it shit honestly. the drive by wire throttle along with the vague feeling shifter and no feel clutch make for a crap manual.


i long for the days that i had my 94 f150 5.0L with the 4 speed manual. even with a bad 2nd gear synchro it STILL felt better than the nsg370! it had a proper clutch feel and the throttle was controlled with a cable as it should be. made for a really fun to drive truck, even if completely down on power.
 
#22 ·
First of all get rid of the crawl tune. That slows throttle response down a ton. If you have a tow tune option I found this to be the best as far as throttle response goes though the 93 octane tune is really close. This is with Superchips.

Also this tranny is probably the one of the worse manual transmissions ever built. Check out this video:

 
#24 ·
Here's what I've learned about a stick in the Wranglers, please note I've only driven a few. The gear oil makes a difference, slight. Red Line being the best so far. My bad habit was driving it like a car with a stick. Meaning I would shift up and down quickly with no slight pause in neutral. I found shifting a bit slower with a slight pause in neutral helped quite a bit. I always come to a complete stop before shifting into reverse, shift to neutral, release the clutch, pause, clutch again and shift into reverse. If the clutch was good that would eliminate the grind. I do that with every stick I drive, it helps a lot. Having said that the JK manual transmission is not the greatest, and some grind and misbehave no matter what you do.

FTR I've driven stick and always had one since the 1970's when I first learned to drive.
 
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#29 ·
I absolutely agree with you here. The more you muscle the transmission, the worse it behaves. Operating the NSG370 smoothly without abrupt clutch input works. I focus on the bite point of the clutch between gears and be sure to engage the rest of the pedal travel slowly. A huge part of shift quality also comes from how you release the gas and press the clutch at the same time. It’s hard to explain but when you experiment and find the flow, the transmission actually works quite well and you can operate it with 2 fingers. It's still more enjoyable and Jeeplike with a manual and therefore more enjoyable.

This sounds like a lot of contradictions, I know.
 
#28 ·
The clutch, throwout bearing, overall engineering, and design parameters are hilariously bad in the NSG370. It has very little consistency day to day and changing the transmission fluid will not save you if it gets below 60F. It may be the worst transmission I have ever used and it’s operated with a nasty slave cylinder and throttle by wire system.

At the same time though, with practice, you can get quite comfortable with it and make it last some time if you don’t have a dud.

I haven’t had the reverse issue yet but I get the 4th gear rattle and it’ll pop out if I don’t give it a good shove into 4th before hitting the clutch.
 
#31 ·
Yes, some transmissions are a little more friendly than others for clutch-less driving. I remember back in my car sales days I could drive a Civic or Accord with a stick w/o using the clutch easier than just about anything else. In fact the only time I had to use the clutch was to take off from a dead stop, or to back it up. I was able to shift up and down the gears w/o the clutch, once the car was rolling. OTOH my buddies F-350 with the granny gear I'd have to pause for a second in neutral before shifting up or down. I found the Wrangler's transmission is more truck like, than sports car like, and has to be driven as such. I think that's where some of the problems people have might be coming from.
 
#32 ·
Yes, backing up in particular, as no gearbox I have used had synchos on reverse.


It's really just a matter of matching the revs to the gear speed. I was riding my bike home one day when I realised how little clutch I was using for most gear changes. It was then I realised that I had unwittingly been making clutchless changes for probably several years, since I always match the revs when changing. And like most bikes, it has a dog box.
 
#33 ·
People who talk about how bad the NSG370 is obviously never had to deal with the Pugeot BA10/5 in the early YJs and XJs.

The most accurate description of the transmission went along the lines of "It's like driving with a grenade that has the pin pulled and the handle is held on with scotch tape." or something like that. Absolutely the worst transmission ever installed in any Jeep ever. Even the T4/SR4 in the 80's CJ's was better. And that's saying a lot.

Not to make light of the shortcomings in the NSG370 but it's certainly not the worst transmission ever used in a Jeep by far.
 
#34 ·
I love my 2007 JKU manual transmission. I have a Wrangler Unlimited X with tow package so it came with 410 gears from the factory. Still on original clutch after 12 years and 130k miles. I have stock tire size and transmission has been flawless. I find you have to adjust to any manual and it can take months to get used to them. I used to be terrified of 6th gear after grinding into reverse gear at 60 plus mph a few times, but I got used to it.

Transmission is fine, shifts fine. I have no hill assist etc. Love it.
 
#36 · (Edited)
I used to be terrified of 6th gear after grinding into reverse gear at 60 plus mph a few times, but I got used to it.
I've never had the 5-6 shift issue (T-56, TR6060)...until the NSG370. Frustrating, but like you said just takes getting used to.

So far I don't find it that bad.

I've read a lot of complains of noise, but my NV3550 was much louder than this. And my AX-15 didn't have a synchro on Reverse, so it would grind most of the time, unless I shifted 1-R
 
#35 ·
I have a 2006 Wrangler LJ and a 2007 Liberty, both with this transmission, and I think they are great. Much better than the 5-speed I had in my 97 Cherokee.



HOWEVER, the clutch was not right in my Liberty for a long time. Long story short, I had a warped pressure plate, had apparently been that way from the factory. After they replaced that, the clutch was great.


So, if it is still under warranty, take it to the dealer, tell then you heard that there is an issue with warped pressure plates from the factory, and get them to replace it.


The only complaint I have with the NSG is that 3rd and 4th gear seem to be kind of far apart, I wish the 4th ratio was a little closer to the 3rd.
 
#40 ·
Much better than the 5-speed I had in my 97 Cherokee.
Wow... maybe you had a bad one, or I had a good one, but the AX-15 in my '97XJ was rather nice ... especially after I installed a Hurst shifter for a mere ~$130...
Put over 300k miles on it, changed the fluid once, and finally wore out the OEM clutch at ~250K.
And, that rig was not treated especially "nice".
Even towed ~7500lbs (yes, stupid, would never do that again) 3600 miles across the Appalachians, San Fransisco Peaks/Rockies...
Used to beat the heck out of it in washes and gravel "roads".
And, on the street... (not often, but, often enough to mention it) I'd full on power shift it from time to time chirping the 33's into 2nd, 3rd and 4th.
 
#39 ·
Y'all are gonna laugh but I put a new exhaust on and things got a little better on the shifting. I took off the Magnaflows that were on there, and bought a Borla. Got some clamps and a section of stainless pipe from Summit and did a home brew, dumped it before the rear axle.

In addition to SOUNDING loads better than the Magnaflow. . .it "feels" a little better. My guess is that the other system was creating back pressure that wasn't helping the whole situation.

Still hate the NSG370, though. :D I miss the drive train in my 2004 XTerra. That thing was a hoss.
 
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