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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Well I've been told by Jeep that they are replacing my entire long block with a rebuilt long block and that it's the only option. That the only way to get a completely new engine is to buy a brand new Jeep. So either they changed things since yours was replaced, your engine is actually rebuilt, or they are lying to me. Not sure why they would need to lie about something like that so I would assume it's one of the other two options.
wrong, they replaced my entire long block.
Also they are backordered. They don't even have a rebuilt engine to sell me right now. So even when this is resolved they have nothing to replace my engine with at the moment anyways. Just to make things even better.
 
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If the warranty is out, then it's out. However, $8500 is WAY too much for a new long block. Get a reman engine and press on. I'd really be surprised if it needs a total engine, though. Maybe just a set of heads.
 
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Isn't there already a huge thread on this?
Other than that, it is not unreasonable to expect Jeep to step up to the plate on this, especially given the history provided by the OP. I know for a fact Subaru of America would step up to the plate because they have done it for me with an out of warranty failure that "should not have happened". These are the steps a company takes to ensure their legacy and return customers. Jeep is an oddity as people seem to wear their reluctance as a badge of honor. Toyota vs Jeep frame is a good example.
I love my Jeep, and the dealership that does my service. But as a company, they can do better, and there is no reason not to expect them to in situations like this.

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Do you trust the dealer's diagnosis is correct? Ive found that dealers sometimes would rather jump to the lowest common denominator repair that they know will fix the problem rather than put in the time and effort to actually see what the most efficient and economical repair should be.

IF a couple cylinders are losing pressure, most of the reasons that would happen are head/valvetrain/gasket related, which does not require full engine replacement. Did they give you any detailed explanation of what is happening (why the cylinders are losing pressure) AND details on how they came to that diagnosis?

A few years ago we drove my wife's old KJ with almost 300k miles from WI to southern Utah, when we were passing CO it developed a slight engine vibration, still ran fine and no codes so we decided to take it to our destination for the night in St. George. The next day I took it to the dealer down there to have it checked since I had no place to diagnose it properly myself. They took it in and within the hour called and told me I had a broken crankshaft and needed a new engine. I told them they were full of it and engines dont run for 400+ miles on broken crankshafts with nothing but slight vibrations. When I asked for info on how they came to that conclusion I found they had not done any real diagnosis, they only had a tech sit in it for a minute and make a guess, no inspection, no testing, nothing. I took the jeep, drove it another 400+ miles to our second destination in southern Idaho where I had family that I could use their shop to do my own diagnosis. Crawled under and found that the seal between the two halves of the dual mass flywheel had failed and leaked out some of the internal grease causing the flywheel to be imbalanced. I again didnt have the place to drop the trans and to that work myself, so I ended up going to the dealer up there, but this time I TOLD them what the problem was and told them what work was needed. That cost was something like $800 vs the first dealer's bogus estimate of $6k for a new engine. The flywheel was replaced, the problem was solved, we drove over 1k+ miles home and more without issues.

The reason I tell that is because too often dealers are more of just parts swappers than real mechanics. If its a difficult diagnosis, and they know a new engine will fix the problem, rather than spend the time to find the root cause, they will just stop at 'new engine' and that is what they will tell you and move on to the next victim...er customer...so anytime I hear a dealer just say "you need a new engine", I get suspicious. Very few things REALLY require a whole new engine.

Are you able to get a second opinion somewhere?
 

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I was well outside the warranty when my radiator went.
According to your post in the radiator thread you were 2 months out of warranty....
 

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Also they are backordered. They don't even have a rebuilt engine to sell me right now. So even when this is resolved they have nothing to replace my engine with at the moment anyways. Just to make things even better.
I don’t know what’s going on now, mine was replaced almost 3 years ago with a brand new longblock. I was there when they started the work in it and had the long block in the crate.

Your situation definitely blows.
 

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I would absolutely get another opinion from a shop other than a dealer. I have a few stories not quite the same but your story reminded me of them.

98 4WD F150 Lariat. Beautiful truck not long out of warranty started running rough with check engine light on. Shop said the aluminum heads were corroded because I didn’t change the coolant often enough. Told me $2000 to replace. I felt like I had no choice and said ok. Total bill was over $4000, they said it was $2000 each. Coughed it up and moved on. My grown son is driving the truck now and it had 233,000 miles on it when he took it over.

90 Jeep Cherokee. Around 2007 had starting issues. Shop said bad compression cause and time for engine replacement. Had a knocking sound when driving, especially noticeable over bumps. Paid over $4000 for rebuilt engine replacement. Started good but still had the knocking sound. Shop found a bad mount and the transmission was hitting the body over bumps. Son totaled it driving to school, he was at fault according to police but totally understandable from our perspective. Total loss for us, unibody bent without collision coverage.

2004 4Runner with about 74,000 miles. Wife took to dealer for an oil change. On the way home engine shut down. Dealer forgot to put oil in it. Towed it back to dealer, they put 5 quarts of oil in it and they told me on the phone it was purring like a kitten. My trusty shop got involved, found metal shavings in the oil, dealer replaced with a used short block and sent the heads out for rebuild. Sounds easy but it was an ordeal and they denied any damage until they saw the metal shavings. Eventually found the lower bearings locked up and turned in the aluminum block. After that my shop could not buy parts from that dealer for years if they wore anything showing where they came from. My other son has that 4Runner now and took it over with 200,000 miles on it.

After the 4Runner ordeal I’ve changed the oil myself on every vehicle we’ve owned including 2016 Wrangler and 2019 Grand Cherokee. I would not be able to produce all of the oil and filter receipts now, and the receipts would not correspond with mileage since I buy the oil when it’s convenient and/or available at Walmart and it sits in my garage until I need it.


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Bought the 75th anniversary edition Wrangler on March 25th, 2016. Got the PO300 (multiple cylinder misfires) code on July 25th, 2016. Took it in to my dealer and they said it was nothing and reprogrammed my Powertrain Control Module to get rid of the code. Since the Jeep was so new I didn't think much of it at the time.

Cut to a couple weeks ago. Check engine light comes on out of the blue. Engine starts idling really irregularly. I go to My local shop and they are too busy to look at the Jeep but they run codes for me. I get Misfire code again. So I take it straight to the Local Jeep Dealer. It literally dies and I coast into the driveway. I get it fired up again after a bit and crawl into the shop. I leave it there to get diagnosed. I figure I have a couple bad spark plugs or something, which would be weird because they are not supposed to be changed until 100k, but funnier things have happened.

About a week later they call me out of the blue and with no explanation start telling me I need to replace the entire long block. Cost is around 8,500. My head nearly explodes. I tell them I am in the middle of something (I was at the hospital for my daughter so this was the last call I needed at that moment) and I need to call them back. I go into the Jeep Dealer the next day to find out what is going on. Two of the cylinders are losing about 30% of their pressure. Whole engine needs to be replaced. At first they are trying to tell me it's just normal wear and tear. I put an end to that train of thought real quick and they change their tune and agree with me. I forgot to mention the kicker. There are only 42k miles on the Jeep. I have had regular oil changes and air filter replacements since I bought it brand new. The best part is the powertrain warranty ran out five years after purchase on March 25, 2021. Approximately one month before the engine gave out.

I am now dealing with Jeep Corporate and trying to get them to cover the expenses. They are asking me to come up with every single receipt I have for maintenance since I bought the Jeep. So I have called every shop I ever dealt with for oil changes, brakes, etc. and got everything emailed to me. What a pain. I am only waiting on one invoice from a shop I only went to once. What do you guys think? Does it seem normal to have to replace an entire engine with only 42k on it? I really hope that Jeep does the right thing here. This is actually the first brand new vehicle I have ever bought in my entire life. I really loved the Jeep while it was running. It was always my dream to own one. Our other truck is a 99 Tahoe. That one still has the original engine and it's going strong. I really can't believe that I am dealing with this and that it's even a question as to whether Jeep is going to replace this engine for me on their dime. Seems like it's the least they could do for selling me a Jeep with a bad engine. I guess we will find out soon whether they have a customer for life or not.
So your are informed (on DEC 17,2020) a MOPAR Remanufactured engine Long Block is only $4,650 list price PN R8259595AB. Aftermarket Engines are list at $3,819.90 from a major Wholesale dealership in my area. Both come with 3yr/100,000 mile parts and labor warranties & have core charges ..
Keep the forum updated.
 
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Has there been any confirmation the original code (and what caused it), did in fact return and directly result in the current issue?

Of course and engine should last more than 42k miles. I have an 05 TJ Rubicon 4.0L that just turned 220k last month.
Legally FCA could deny any assistance with an out of warranty issue.

Do they HAVE to do anything at this point. Nope. Your job will be to get them to recognize there may have been something going on while it WAS still under warranty. If it can be determined that the old issue resulted in the failure that just happened, maybe they will accept at least some part of the responsibility in covering some of the expenses.

That might be very difficult to prove, which is why they would want every single receipt for their engineers to review to see if there is any trail of evidence connecting the old problem(s) with the recent failure.

I think you might be lucky, and really doing well, if you can get them to cover failed parts and you pay labor. Even then, that would be smooth talking them and being nice (even if it kills you), in order to get the right person to possibly help out in some way.

I had a similar dealing with Chevrolet. It was difficult, but they could have left me totally on my own on the expenses. They covered the failed part and I paid labor.

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Do you trust the dealer's diagnosis is correct? Ive found that dealers sometimes would rather jump to the lowest common denominator repair that they know will fix the problem rather than put in the time and effort to actually see what the most efficient and economical repair should be.

IF a couple cylinders are losing pressure, most of the reasons that would happen are head/valvetrain/gasket related, which does not require full engine replacement. Did they give you any detailed explanation of what is happening (why the cylinders are losing pressure) AND details on how they came to that diagnosis?

A few years ago we drove my wife's old KJ with almost 300k miles from WI to southern Utah, when we were passing CO it developed a slight engine vibration, still ran fine and no codes so we decided to take it to our destination for the night in St. George. The next day I took it to the dealer down there to have it checked since I had no place to diagnose it properly myself. They took it in and within the hour called and told me I had a broken crankshaft and needed a new engine. I told them they were full of it and engines dont run for 400+ miles on broken crankshafts with nothing but slight vibrations. When I asked for info on how they came to that conclusion I found they had not done any real diagnosis, they only had a tech sit in it for a minute and make a guess, no inspection, no testing, nothing. I took the jeep, drove it another 400+ miles to our second destination in southern Idaho where I had family that I could use their shop to do my own diagnosis. Crawled under and found that the seal between the two halves of the dual mass flywheel had failed and leaked out some of the internal grease causing the flywheel to be imbalanced. I again didnt have the place to drop the trans and to that work myself, so I ended up going to the dealer up there, but this time I TOLD them what the problem was and told them what work was needed. That cost was something like $800 vs the first dealer's bogus estimate of $6k for a new engine. The flywheel was replaced, the problem was solved, we drove over 1k+ miles home and more without issues.

The reason I tell that is because too often dealers are more of just parts swappers than real mechanics. If its a difficult diagnosis, and they know a new engine will fix the problem, rather than spend the time to find the root cause, they will just stop at 'new engine' and that is what they will tell you and move on to the next victim...er customer...so anytime I hear a dealer just say "you need a new engine", I get suspicious. Very few things REALLY require a whole new engine.

Are you able to get a second opinion somewhere?
The problem is where I live all the shops are completely swamped. When I initially broght it in to my normal shop they said they couldn't even look at it for three weeks. They were nice enough to run the codes for me which is how I knew it was misfiring again. Liked I said at the time I had assumed it was just a faulty plug or two so I took it to the local Jeep dealer. It was really bad on the drive. I could feel it getting worse and it literally died as I was pulling in the driveway. They also told me it would be three weeks but I could leave it there and if someone cancelled their appointment they could look at it sooner. So I couldn't drive it anywhere else. I could have towed it somewhere but all the shops were slammed anyways and I figured if a shop actually had the time to take it in right away that might actually be saying something about that particular shop, so I just decided to leave it put. If Jeep isn't going to cover this repair then I will take it to another shop and get that second opinion at some point before I just replace the entire engine. I truly believe this has been an issue since I bought the vehicle as it gave me the bad cylinder codes when it was pretty much brand new. I think it was just bad luck that I received an engine with shoddy manufacturing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Open a case with jeepcares , call them, if you are past your warranty for a single month, and the dealership thinks it needs a new motor, they should cover it.

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Is that different than opening a case with FCA/Stellantis?
 

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According to your post in the radiator thread you were 2 months out of warranty....
It could be that, is a long time and 50K miles ago. But totally different circumstances, one the problem did occur after the warranty expired, two I wanted better cooling which I got. The OP and Jeep has documentation of the problem well before the warranty expired.
 

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The problem is where I live all the shops are completely swamped. When I initially broght it in to my normal shop they said they couldn't even look at it for three weeks. They were nice enough to run the codes for me which is how I knew it was misfiring again. Liked I said at the time I had assumed it was just a faulty plug or two so I took it to the local Jeep dealer. It was really bad on the drive. I could feel it getting worse and it literally died as I was pulling in the driveway. They also told me it would be three weeks but I could leave it there and if someone cancelled their appointment they could look at it sooner. So I couldn't drive it anywhere else. I could have towed it somewhere but all the shops were slammed anyways and I figured if a shop actually had the time to take it in right away that might actually be saying something about that particular shop, so I just decided to leave it put. If Jeep isn't going to cover this repair then I will take it to another shop and get that second opinion at some point before I just replace the entire engine. I truly believe this has been an issue since I bought the vehicle as it gave me the bad cylinder codes when it was pretty much brand new. I think it was just bad luck that I received an engine with shoddy manufacturing.
The fact they are overly busy makes me question their diagnosis even more, the quicker they want to get it looked at and out of the bay so they can bring in something else.

The whole situation sucks, if its been giving codes during warranty that weren't properly addressed by the dealer and were documented, then I think you might have a better case. Id also recommend reaching out to jeep cares, I dont know what the difference is between them and an fca case, but id pursue every avenue of potential assistance.

I hope you can get it taken care of properly!
 

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Bought the 75th anniversary edition Wrangler on March 25th, 2016. Got the PO300 (multiple cylinder misfires) code on July 25th, 2016. Took it in to my dealer and they said it was nothing and reprogrammed my Powertrain Control Module to get rid of the code. Since the Jeep was so new I didn't think much of it at the time.

Cut to a couple weeks ago. Check engine light comes on out of the blue. Engine starts idling really irregularly. I go to My local shop and they are too busy to look at the Jeep but they run codes for me. I get Misfire code again. So I take it straight to the Local Jeep Dealer. It literally dies and I coast into the driveway. I get it fired up again after a bit and crawl into the shop. I leave it there to get diagnosed. I figure I have a couple bad spark plugs or something, which would be weird because they are not supposed to be changed until 100k, but funnier things have happened.

About a week later they call me out of the blue and with no explanation start telling me I need to replace the entire long block. Cost is around 8,500. My head nearly explodes. I tell them I am in the middle of something (I was at the hospital for my daughter so this was the last call I needed at that moment) and I need to call them back. I go into the Jeep Dealer the next day to find out what is going on. Two of the cylinders are losing about 30% of their pressure. Whole engine needs to be replaced. At first they are trying to tell me it's just normal wear and tear. I put an end to that train of thought real quick and they change their tune and agree with me. I forgot to mention the kicker. There are only 42k miles on the Jeep. I have had regular oil changes and air filter replacements since I bought it brand new. The best part is the powertrain warranty ran out five years after purchase on March 25, 2021. Approximately one month before the engine gave out.

I am now dealing with Jeep Corporate and trying to get them to cover the expenses. They are asking me to come up with every single receipt I have for maintenance since I bought the Jeep. So I have called every shop I ever dealt with for oil changes, brakes, etc. and got everything emailed to me. What a pain. I am only waiting on one invoice from a shop I only went to once. What do you guys think? Does it seem normal to have to replace an entire engine with only 42k on it? I really hope that Jeep does the right thing here. This is actually the first brand new vehicle I have ever bought in my entire life. I really loved the Jeep while it was running. It was always my dream to own one. Our other truck is a 99 Tahoe. That one still has the original engine and it's going strong. I really can't believe that I am dealing with this and that it's even a question as to whether Jeep is going to replace this engine for me on their dime. Seems like it's the least they could do for selling me a Jeep with a bad engine. I guess we will find out soon whether they have a customer for life or not.
How are you making the connection between a misfire situation 5 years ago.... and today? What is your argument that a misfire 5 years ago is the cause of the problems now?

You took it in for a misfire 5 years ago, and they fixed it. Are you claiming they didn't?
 

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Yes, but its FCA. FCA = Zero Fuks Given. Trust me, I know. Good luck but dont hold your breath.
 
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Threads like this make me sad. Sad for the corporation and sad for the consumer. Sad for the corporation because this seems somewhat obvious to be some sort of defect. Even with neglect and/or abuse it seems pretty hard to grenade an engine at 42k miles (as others have stated, trusting a dealer for the diagnosis is probably not something I’d do).

It makes me sad for the consumer because unless you are a total gearhead or certified tech, you have to trust others in what they say, and if something goes wrong for them to resolve it with a warranty to cover the expense.

All the while, it seems there is a point of diminishing “responsibility” that an OEM has when miles reach a certain point and when they should feel obligated to satisfy a customer. Quite a number of years back, I worked for Chrysler in Customer Care and spent day in and day out listening to stories like this. I’m not going to judge either way, but it is totally within reason to be out of warranty and asking for assistance to need to provide all service records. The only thing I will mention is that if the OP is the type of person who doesn’t have the time, tools, or knowledge to perform service and maintenance (not saying everyone needs to be a full on gear head), then they would be best to replace their vehicles prior to, or right when the warranty expires, or be willing to cover costs of repairs out of warranty. That doesn’t really apply here, but if I didn’t have the ability to service and maintain a machine, I’d get rid of it unless I had the slush fund to sort it out.

Getting to a point, about a labyrinth of rabbit holes could be explored in a number of directions: validity of a dealer diagnosis, validity of this being a defect out of the box that finally reared it’s head to the point of failure, validity of the service performed by various shops, responsibility of the owner to manage all of this, and responsibility of an OEM to cover repairs to what point. This is why it makes me sad. Should the owner bear the ownus of all of this, or should the OEM be obligated to cover such an early failure? I don’t know.

I will say this: it solidifies a few things in my decision making paradigm. It solidifies actually knowing a good bit about something I invest a lot of time and money into. That could be cars, motorcycles, houses, computers, etc. Knowledge is power. It also solidifies my zero level of trust in dealers (or much of anyone for that matter). Just recently, I helped a buddy buy a ‘13 JKUR and the dealer tried to hide an engine code that was never brought up and cleared literally just before our test drive (that I discovered when I ran the codes myself before we drove it). In the case of this thread, needing an entire engine is akin to throwing out the baby with the bath water, and the dealer is in a win, win situation where either the customer takes it in the shorts and forks out the $$$, or FCA covers them. They don’t have to care.

Lastly, it solidifies my decision to have all the tools I have. Coupled to the knowledge I have captured over the years, it would be very hard for me to get blindsided by any repair or failure. It’s also why I’ve been able to afford all the toys I have. There is no way I’d be able to afford all the stuff I have if I trusted the care of all of it to someone else. (Along those lines, our latest house was purchased brand new with the thought that much like a new car, it would have a warranty and be someone else’s problem. Well, suffice it to say, builders are just as much dirt bags as car dealers- thus my general distrust of people).

My last statement is this for the OP: I suspect FCA will take care of you. At that point, turn around and sell this one. Then if you still like Jeeps, buy a brand new one and be sure to sell it before it goes out of warranty.
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
If the warranty is out, then it's out. However, $8500 is WAY too much for a new long block. Get a reman engine and press on. I'd really be surprised if it needs a total engine, though. Maybe just a set of heads.
That quote is for a remanufactured engine. They don't even offer a new engine as an option.
 

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This is not a FCA / Stellantis issue. Every manufacturer has some failure rate. The dealership I worked for sold multiple brands. At the time, I was able to buy a new leftover Toyota T100 for a song. Right place, right time, right manufacturer incentive and a sales manager and GM who I got along with. Anyway, T 100s developed a reputation of being very solid, reliable trucks. The 3.4 was almost bulletproof. Even today, they’re seen as durable and reliable. Unfortunately, my experience was horrible. I had serious issues with the HVAC system. I had serious transmission issues. My dealer (keep in mind I worked there and knew the guys working on my truck) was great, they replaced part after part after part. New transmission. New heater core. New AC unit. New relays. That truck was the only vehicle I can remember leaving me stranded at the side of the road more than once (3 times it got a ride on a flatbed). I swore in 1998 when I dumped the T100 off on trade that it would be the last Toyota product I’d ever own. Well time went on, I’ve owned a bunch of vehicles since and I finally broke down and bought a new 2017 Tundra some 20 years later. It’s be flawless. That said, my 2013 JK Wrangler was also great, just routine maintenance in seven years and 115K miles. My nephew bought it from me and is piling more miles on it everyday with no issues. My 2020 JL has been perfect. I had the new steering box installed and it improved the on center feel. Most importantly, I haven’t had a single initial quality issue with the JL in a year and almost 13K miles. It’s been perfect and I expect it’ll continue to be.
 

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This is one reason I have two things - the lifetime extended warranty on my 2017 and all the oil changes have been don at the dealer. The only thing that has not been done by the dealer is the replacement battery I just put in mine.
 
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