Exactly. The install is warrantied by your dealer, not by Chrysler.
Mopar Lift Kit info
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That's what you've been saying. It just bears repeating sometimes.Is that not what I've been saying?
It's a little ambiguous, but it sounds like your training is carefully crafted double speak.rockjock1 said:Molars warranty is this-
If a Mopar part is purchased from a dealer-it comes with a 12month 12k mile warranty (must be returned/taken to the original dealer-this is for accounting purposes) if you have the same part from above installed at a franchise CJDR dealer you get a 12 month unlimited mile part and labor warranty-
If you buy the lift kit from Pat-and installed there-your covered for a year and as many miles as you can put on.
For once-my Chrysler training has some use.
Performance parts--like lifts--come with no useful warranty. At most, the parts themselves are warrantied against defects and your dealer warranties the labor. The same would be true regarding any manufacturer and parts installer, such as a reputable 4x4 shop. Nobody--and I mean nobody--warranties the impact of the lift on the jeep.
Thus, 4" mopar dealer installed lift cooks your driveshaft? Too bad. 37" dealer installed tires warp your ball joints? Tough. I've heard of folks getting those items repaired "under warranty" (like Green Machine and his 3 driveshafts), but it's done with a wink and a nod from a cool guy in the service department, and has nothing to do with the damage actually being "under warranty."
There is no upside whatsoever to getting a Mopar lift installed by a dealer.
There is no "seeing it."rockjock1 said:I guess I don't see it as that. If it was found that a Mopar part (performance or otherwise) caused a vehicle component to fail-at least at my dealer-we would cover the failed part, as well as the rest (wear items excluded of course....)
The training isn't inconsistent-the responses you get from employees unwilling to put their neck out is. As for tires-You can tell me to put anything n you want-if your vin didn't call for that tire size in star parts-you would be sol. Same with air filters, you can ask for whatever-but Mopar recommends X part for your vehicle, that's what would be looked at in the event of a warranty claim. We wouldn't warranty tires cupping from people that don't rotate-or wipers that someone leaves on for 4 days dry-but if you get ball joint that fails-or causes a wheel bearing to fail-you'd better get those covered (out of basic 3/36 or not)-if it was a Mopar part.....
I often get this from charger/challenger guys that use the Mopar cold air intake on their cars-doesn't do anything to the cars manufacturer warranty-
Read the warranty booklet that comes with your vehicle and the warranty disclaimers included in the performance parts catalog and your vehicle's warranty booklet. If a Mopar lift damages your driveshaft, Chrysler has no legal obligation whatsoever to cover it.
Now, if your dealership will cover it or they "know a guy" at Chrysler that can get through the paperwork, that's fine. But that's different than actually being covered.
Same is true with the air intake. If I install a Mopar intake and hydrolock after I suck in a ton of water when I hit a big puddle, I'm filing an insurance claim, not a warranty one, because Chrysler would have no obligation to replace my engine in those circumstances.
The law has everything to do with it.rockjock1 said:Law has nothing to do with-Mopar doesn't write law.....
I don't want to pick fights here-but the more I read some of these threads-there seem to be a lot of members who want to throw around "facts" with o real supporting document or proof, and some of them recommend making modifications to vehicles that are frankly-wrecklous and dangerous-
I know more about warranties and warranty claims than most-I was a dealer compliance officer for 7 years between Ford and Chrysler-covering loans, credit, Red Flag, IRS and dealer franchise compliance.....
Having reviewed all relevant Chrysler published warranty documents applicable to my Jeep, I can find no basis to conclude a Mopar lift installed by a dealer carries any legal benefit over another aftermarket brand installed by a local shop.
If you can point me to something that says otherwise, I'd be happy to review it.
:facepalm:
My issue is that dealers suggesting that Mopar lifts installed by them are the only way to "keep your warranty" are a major pet peeve of mine. It's false, and is nothing but a ploy to convince consumers to buy wildly overpriced lifts and installs.
And it sounds like you're drinking some of the Kool-Aid.
Go back and read what your training taught you to say. I had to read it a few times myself. It really says: Parts and install. That's it. If a shock leaks because it's defective, we'll replace it at no charge. If our tech didn't tighten all the bolts, we'll do it at no charge.
You know who else provides that warranty? Everybody. If I go to 4WheelParts for a Pro Comp lift and my shock leaks, they'll replace it. And if the bolts aren't tightened, they'll tighten them.
You know what your training jingle doesn't say? That my driveshaft is covered. Or that any other damage caused by the lift is covered. You know why it doesn't say that? Because its not covered.
You know who else won't cover damage caused by an installed lift? Everybody. If I go to 4WheelParts for a Pro Comp lift and my driveshaft boot tears, they might do me a favor and let me snag an extra out of their parts bin, but their not obligated to.
You know how I know all this? Because I actually read the documents. You should try it. Unless overridden by state statute, they're the only thing that binds Chrysler on this topic.
Again, I have found nothing even suggesting that Chrysler will warranty damages caused by ANY mod, including a dealer-installed Mopar lift. To the contrary, such damage is expressly excluded from coverage in both the warranty manual that came with your vehicle as well as the Mopar performance parts catalog. Chrysler warrants your vehicle as it left the factory, any changes you make (whether dealer-installed or not, whether Mopar or not) will not be covered and neither will any damage caused by those changes.
That's not "fantasy land."
And by all means, if you're aware of something that indicates otherwise, I'd be happy to look at it. I'd actually like to be wrong on this--then there'd actually be a reason to buy a Mopar lift.
Edited for clarity. I do it all the time, particularly where--as here--the replies I get leave me wondering if the person read what I thought I said.rockjock1 said:BTW MTH-I see you've edited your orig response to my post a couple times now....double speak....wow. I hear sirens.
Look, I'm not trying to pick a fight either. This forum doesn't tolerate pissing contests, and that's one of the great things about it.rockjock1 said:So -Chrysler's warranty doesn't really mean anything-and if you take your car to a dealer-they'll do everything they can to not cover it.
I just don't get it.....has anyone commenting on this modified their jeep with a Mopar part then submitted a warranty claim-or are we playing in fantasy land?
My issue is that dealers suggesting that Mopar lifts installed by them are the only way to "keep your warranty" are a major pet peeve of mine. It's false, and is nothing but a ploy to convince consumers to buy wildly overpriced lifts and installs.
And it sounds like you're drinking some of the Kool-Aid.
Go back and read what your training taught you to say. I had to read it a few times myself. It really says: Parts and install. That's it. If a shock leaks because it's defective, we'll replace it at no charge. If our tech didn't tighten all the bolts, we'll do it at no charge.
You know who else provides that warranty? Everybody. If I go to 4WheelParts for a Pro Comp lift and my shock leaks, they'll replace it. And if the bolts aren't tightened, they'll tighten them.
You know what your training jingle doesn't say? That my driveshaft is covered. Or that any other damage caused by the lift is covered. You know why it doesn't say that? Because its not covered.
You know who else won't cover damage caused by an installed lift? Everybody. If I go to 4WheelParts for a Pro Comp lift and my driveshaft boot tears, they might do me a favor and let me snag an extra out of their parts bin, but their not obligated to.
You know how I know all this? Because I actually read the documents. You should try it. Unless overridden by state statute, they're the only thing that binds Chrysler on this topic.
Again, I have found nothing even suggesting that Chrysler will warranty damages caused by ANY mod, including a dealer-installed Mopar lift. To the contrary, such damage is expressly excluded from coverage in both the warranty manual that came with your vehicle as well as the Mopar performance parts catalog. Chrysler warrants your vehicle as it left the factory, any changes you make (whether dealer-installed or not, whether Mopar or not) will not be covered and neither will any damage caused by those changes.
That's not "fantasy land."
And by all means, if you're aware of something that indicates otherwise, I'd be happy to look at it. I'd actually like to be wrong on this--then there'd actually be a reason to buy a Mopar lift.
This just baffles me. While it is of course true that the kit itself will be covered by whomever installs it, none of the rest of this is supported in any Chrysler documentation I have seen.rockjock1 said:the Mopar lift kit-if installed at the dealer-will be covered by the dealer (as all things are)-and if a)you're under the 3/36 or 5/100 a part fails related to the install of the kit-it should be covered (there are outside situations-other mods ect that may not entitle you to coverage)-and b) if you are out of the 3/36 or 5/100 factory warranty-the Mopar lift kit comes with its own coverage. Having said that-if you are out of fac warr-and have a dealer instal a Mopar lift kit-if the kit fails, and causes other parts to fail-those things are covered for the period specified by Mopars warranty.
Under the language of the warranty materials that come with every jeep as well as the performance parts catalog, a part failure (such as a driveshaft or control arm) caused by a dealer-installed Mopar lift is treated no differently than a part failure caused by a TeraFlex lift installed by a local 4x4 shop. Either way, the owner is without any legal recourse and is, essentially, looking for a favor.
As I mentioned before, I'm more than happy to be proven wrong here. If you could share some Chrysler documents to support your understanding, it would be much appreciated. This is the first I've ever heard of this, and it bears no resemblance to what my warranty documents actually say.
That's correct. Absent odometer tampering, warranties are almost never "voided." And in any event, a warranty becomes "void" by operation of law, not by dealer decision.rockjock1 said:Well-as a dealer-we can not void a warranty.
The issues we're discussing are of "non-coverage," not voidness. Damages caused by a mod are "not covered." The warranty itself remains and is not "void."
There are indeed none. New here makes no difference--I hope you stick around.rockjock1 said:I'm off to bed-hope there are no hard feelings-I'm new here-and prob should keep my responses shorter-and clearer.
That's correct. In fact, they really can't truly "red flag" the vehicle--ie, they automatically won't warranty anything. The terms of the warranty itself (and statutory law) don't allow for that. They can "red flag" the vehicle as a matter of record keeping just to note there's a mod that MAY affect coverage for certain repairs.Vince1 said:Just to pipe in on the warranty issue: I had the 2" Mopar lift when I purchased the 2010 JKU off the dealer's lot. I asked about the warranty and he showed me a policy letter from Chrysler HQ stating that while they don't warranty the parts (the lift manufacturer does), the installation of Mopar performance parts, including the lifts, would not automatically red flag the vehicle. I no longer have the lift, and can't find the letter, but perhaps Pat or one of the dealers participating on this board could produce it.
Thanks, Pat.Here's the whole back of the mopar parts catalog stating all of the warranties.
And sure enough, if you scroll down to page 5, you'll find the performance parts warranty section, which provides this little gem:
That's even less of a warranty than most aftermarket companies provide. What Mopar is saying here is that even if the Mopar shock that comes with your lift starts leaking once you drive it off the lot, you're on your own. They're not even going to be responsible to cover defective parts. Nor are they going to be responsible for the labor to fix defective parts. And they're certainly not going to be responsible to cover damage the performance parts cause to stock parts.Mopar Performance parts are sold “as is” unless otherwise noted. This means that parts sold by Mopar Performance carry no warranty whatsoever. Implied warranties, such as warranties of merchantability, are excluded. (An implied warranty of merchantability means that the part is reasonably fi t for the general purpose for which it was sold). The entire risk as to quality and performance of such parts is with the buyer. Should such parts prove defective following their purchase, the buyer and not the manufacturer, distributor or retailer, assumes the entire cost of all necessary servicing or repair. . . . . The addition of performance parts does not by itself void a vehicle’s warranty. However, added performance parts (parts not originally supplied on the vehicle from the factory) are not covered by the vehicle’s warranty, and any failure that they may cause is also not covered by the vehicle’s warranty.
In any event, I simply can't see how that reconciles with this:
That's not to say rockjock1's dealership has never provided "coverage" like he's describing "just because"--I'm sure it has. But that's different than being legally obligated to provide coverage.the Mopar lift kit-if installed at the dealer-will be covered by the dealer (as all things are)-and if a)you're under the 3/36 or 5/100 a part fails related to the install of the kit-it should be covered (there are outside situations-other mods ect that may not entitle you to coverage)-and b) if you are out of the 3/36 or 5/100 factory warranty-the Mopar lift kit comes with its own coverage. Having said that-if you are out of fac warr-and have a dealer instal a Mopar lift kit-if the kit fails, and causes other parts to fail-those things are covered for the period specified by Mopars warranty.
This is why I go bananas when I hear that somebody's dealer told them that only the dealership can lift their jeep without "voiding their warranty."
Unless you can show that the exclusions are unlawful (i.e., in violation of Federal warranty laws), the plaintiff loses at summary judgment. It never even gets to a jury.True, but I love to see a trial where a Chrysler rep was refusing to pay damages when their factory manufactured part purchased from and installed by one of their authorized dealers onto one of their vehicles failed. In fact, I'd love to argue for the plaintiff on that one.
Just off the top of my head, I'd say the best bet would be to not bother suing Chrysler at all. Sue the dealership instead, and argue (if true) that they lied and told you it would be covered in order to trick you into the purchase. That would come under other consumer protection laws that (hopefully) aren't usurped by the Federal warranty rubric.
Even that would be a tough case though, as I expect those laws are at least arguably usurped by Federal warranty law, and, in any event, your purchase documents are going to expressly supercede any other oral representations or agreements. So a major part of your argument is going to have to be, in essence, that you're an idiot who made a $40k purchase without reading anything.
Regardless, the point stands that it appears you're no better off with a Mopar dealer-installed lift than any other reputable aftermarket company and installer. In fact, it appears other aftermarket options may actually be a better choice insofar as they actually stand behind the parts and the installation.
I had the 2" Mopar lift when I purchased the 2010 JKU off the dealer's lot. I asked about the warranty and he showed me a policy letter from Chrysler HQ stating that while they don't warranty the parts (the lift manufacturer does), the installation of Mopar performance parts, including the lifts, would not automatically red flag the vehicle. I no longer have the lift, and can't find the letter, but perhaps Pat or one of the dealers participating on this board could produce it.
Here's the whole back of the mopar parts catalog stating all of the warranties.
Vince: Notice that the Mopar warranty I quoted above (almost) doesn't conflict with the policy letter you were shown. The ony quibble would be your recollection that "the lift manufacturer" warrants the parts--the Mopar warranty expressly disclaims that.No, what I was referring to was a memo put out by Chrysler directly addressing the lift warranty question. Perhaps you can ask around as I know it exists as I saw it with my own eyes.
Otherwise, the policy letter as you remember it simply said, "We won't 'red flag' it." As I noted above, that really is just saying we won't automatically refuse all warranty work based on the lift. Of course, they can't do that anyway, and indeed, the quoted Mopar warranty is clear that "The addition of performance parts does not by itself void a vehicle’s warranty."
They will--as noted above by Pat--"flag" a vehicle as a matter of record keeping. But each potential warranty repair will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.
What's changed isn't covered and what's damaged by what's changed isn't covered, but everything else remains covered.lightninquick said:Very interesting read. What the short version on warrantee? If I put a lift and bigger tires is my motor and trans still covered if the thing breaks down? I understand that all suspension parts and drive shaft will not be, common sense says so. But what about the other stuff radio, nav, electrical???
So for a warranty claim to be denied as a result of a lift and big tires, the dealer tech would need to somehow blame the problem on the lift and the tires.
In theory yes, but Chrysler can't take that position. Firstly, the issue isn't whether the mod "affects" something, it's whether it contributed to the damage complained of. Secondly, dealers everywhere sell lifted jeeps with big tires, and asserting they had no warranty would be a PR disaster.lightninquick said:will larger tires increase load on the drivetrain? id think yes, will increased load shorten the life of a drivetrain? id say probably.
its easy for me to think that if i lift the jeep and put big tires on, no more warrantee.:banghead:
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