Jeep Wrangler Forum banner

1 - 20 of 48 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So introducing myself here. I have had a Jeep all my life from FSJ cherokees and GWs to CJs to XJ and YJ TJs.

I finally decided that I wanted a JKU. So about 3 or 4 months ago I traded my 06 F150 in for a U.S. Spec'd 2012 Sport with right hand drive. ( I have always wanted a right hand drive vehicle although my dream one would have been a manual).

My overall plan was to do a mild build on it by collecting as much rubicon specific stuff as I can to put into the RHD. I decided on going with take offs from the anniversary/x/hard rock style. So far I have collected a Rock trac, smart bar, and I have worked a deal out for the bumpers and rock slider( although I havent picked them up). Yes I know it won't be a rubicon officially if i put rubicon stuff on it but who cares.

Anyway. A few weeks after I got the Jeep i started getting a rough idle and misfire. i am aware that 2012s commonly have a problem similar to this for the left side head but the misfire was on 1 and 5 only and that is the right side head. So I took it into a local Jeep dealer, for the sake of protecting the names of those involved im just going to say the dealer was called..... AutoNation Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram Mobile
3118 Government Blvd Mobile, Al 36606.

So at this point I am not sure if this particularly dealer even understands how an engine works, keep in mind i have literally assembled jeeps from scrap parts and know a thing or two about engines.

They got the vehicle in and it took them about a week to even get it in the shop. When I asked what the delay was, I was told that the vehicle had been in for warranty work at autonation before so they were waiting for the mechanic who did the last warranty work on it could look at it. Ok whatever, that seems reasonable.

Finally they get to looking at it, and after about maybe a week and a half of it being in there they determine that the right head is bad and replace i under warranty. Still misfiring on the cylinders. So they then say ok we are going to replace the cams, have them overnighted and then..... they don't replace the cams. Instead they replace the cam phasers. Still a misfire.

So now we are in week 3, and supposedly the mechanics are doing "diagnostics" on the engine. When I asked what they think it might be I am told that they are waiting on chrysler star to get back with them on suggestions because the computer is telling them that the cam and the crankshaft are out of sync...... So basically these guys, who the service rep keeps telling me that between the mechanics there is umpteen thousand years of mechanic experience, cannot make any sort of diagnosis without A. a computer telling them what the problem is, and B. Corporate chrysler giving them suggestions.

Now I understand that the nature of the powertrain warranty requires chrysler to approve the next step to keep it covered but I mean there was a time in history where mechanics did not have any OBD to tell them what to do.

So anyway we move into week 4 of this crap. So far head has been replaced, phasers have been replaced and thats it. So i keep asking the service guy whats next. He tells me they are going to pull the transmission and that the wait on getting trans pulled on vehicles was at least a week...... To which I said, NO you are not. When I challenged him he said we need to see if the trans is throwing off the crankshaft. To which I said thats not how engines work put my jeep back together Im coming to get it.

The next morning I get a call and he says he had my jeep mistaken with another one that the mechanics were in the process of pulling the oil pan on the 3.6. So I said ok carry on.

So no real surprise here, pulling the oil pan and then almost literally staring at it and scratching their nuts did not clear the problem. So they put it back together and tell me well we are waiting on star to tell us what to do.

During this entire period i am of course without a vehicle and they did not give me a loaner. I talked to the service manager who was a total a hole to me and said look what happens if you cant diagnose this problem? Eventually something has to give I can't just give you my vehicle indefinitely.At this point its looking to me that we need to replace the engine.He cuts me off and says no we wont put a new engine in, thats not covered under warranty. So i mull it over and a few days later I ask the service rep if I can get a copy of the powertrain warranty so I can look it over and see what my rights are under it. He tells me that document doesnt exist..... Meaning that chrysler has a powertrain warranty but they just make it up as they go or there is some guy named joe at chyrsler who keeps the whole thing in his head.

So now we are in week five, so far the mechanics seem rather incompetent and the customer service is less than desireable. He tells me they are going to take apart the front of the motor and inspect the timing chain.... So they litereally do that take it apart look at it REPLACE NOTHING and he calls me back and says that didnt fix the problem, not that it didnt give them an idea what was wrong or anything but that taking it apart looking at it scratching their nuts and putting it back together didn't clear the problem out.

So finally at the end of week 5 I say you are absolutely done put it back together Ill pick it up.

I get it and I immediately take it to another chrysler dealer a little further away .

It has been another 4 weeks since I dropped it off their, although this current dealer seems to be a lot better. The first week they had to kinda go back and verify all the crap Autonation did. Then the second and third week they replaced the cams, rockers and rocker arms in the head and they had to replace the head gasket(which apparently wasnt done when the head was replaced at autonation), still the same misfire. So at the end of week 3 the mechanic said THIS NEEDS A NEW ENGINE. However now its a matter of getting chrysler to approve the engine and they are doing everything they can to not do that.

They came back on monday of week 4 and said to replace the head again to rule out that the replacement was not a bad head. Of course that still didnt fix the issue. So now chrysler wants them to replace the entire engine wiring harness, which I guarantee you is not the problem... if anything it would be a bad PCM ... Wiring, is not covered under powertrain warranty though. So I filed a claim with Chrysler customer service, which the lady working with me has been quite nice and professional, and she said since I have had such trouble that chrysler will cover the cost of the harness.

So whatever, I mean so far its been 9 weeks. The jeep has almost literally been in the shop longer than I have been driving it. Its gonna be a minimum of 2 weeks for them to get the harness then you gotta figure a 3rd weekish to get it installed. It probably wont fix the problem but that is gonna put it at 3 months right there.

so thats where we are at now.Im paying payments on a jeep that i never get to drive. Plus its killing me that I have a veritable treasure trove a parts I want to put in the damned thing sitting in my garage.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,895 Posts
Wow. That was quite a write-up (Compliment coming) I've never read a whole post that long.
Sorry for your ...tumult. (that took me a miunute, I wanted something stronger than -trouble)
Anyway, sounds like an end is in sight, granted not imminent and not without quite a road already traveled.
Please keep us updated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Wow, I'm sorry to hear about all this! Sounds like Chrysler customer service is at least trying to help now. Stay after them, hopefully you'll end up with a new engine out of all this grief! Good luck brother!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
That is terrible. The R&R guys (not mechanics) working in shops these days can be awful.
I took a Plymouth Breeze into my dealer because the tranny went into limp mode. They hooked the car up to their computer and the service writer came back and said "The problem is one of two modules. We don't know which one it is. One is $350 and the other is $550. Which one do you want us to try first?" My car was out of warranty. I told him to go ahead and bring my car back out to me. If they weren't any better at troubleshooting than that, I didn't want them to turn a wrench on it. Went to a local transmission shop with a good reputation and told them to call me with an estimate. The guy called me back a few hours later and said, "Your car is all fixed, come and pick it up." I about passed out. My blood started to boil. I wanted an estimate before they fixed it as I didn't have "$350 or $550" to fix it. (Hell, I was a broke kid, I mean, I was driving a Plymouth for crying out loud. Obviously I didn't have any money.) How much, I asked with trepidation... $75 bucks he said. It's just a sensor, they go out all the time on these things, we replace several of them in these cars every month. That car ran like a champ for years after that.

So the independent guy could fix it for $75 , parts and labor, and knew the issue right away with that model of car. The dealer with all their wisdom and resources wanted to start throwing parts at it, hundreds of dollars at a time to see what would stick.

Good mechanics are hard to find and the dealerships way of doing business doesn't seem to allow the good ones to shine.

Good luck with your Jeep!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Wow. That was quite a write-up (Compliment coming) I've never read a whole post that long.
Sorry for your ...tumult. (that took me a miunute, I wanted something stronger than -trouble)
Anyway, sounds like an end is in sight, granted not imminent and not without quite a road already traveled.
Please keep us updated.
Btw I have been a 13a in guard since 2011. Just moved over to civil affairs in the reserves.

As far as an end in sight. Although I am not super angry about the situation as I could be there is a minimum 2weeks ln the replacement harness not to mentuonits an the so I bet it will take longer.on top of that i can almost guarentee that wont fix,the problem.

So figure at least be added ask for harness installation plus another half a week to week minimum for Chrysler to decide on the next move, assuming they decide to,replace the engine next. Figure another week just to get the motor in. And yet another 2 to 3 weeks to install,the damn thing.

So right there we are almost at an extra 2 months.


So my friend, and in sight ? No I don't share your enthusiasm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
As a service manager for a dealership (non-jeep) I'm going to chime in here with a suggestion. You need to call and talk to Chrysler Customer Care. They need to be compensating you for the time down without the vehicle. You need to hammer home the "I'm making payments on a vehicle I can't drive" point. All of the work that the original dealer did and now the second dealer did should be documented with Chrysler and if need be have the regional rep get involved. Also, if this harness doesn't fix it you need to ask to have a Chrysler engineer come and visit with the dealer that has the jeep currently to advise on how to fix this issue. I find it hard to believe that a Powertrain warranty won't cover the engine itself.

I feel bad for the technicians that have been working on it because their hands are tied by the manufacturer as far as repair work goes. It's gotten to the point where the guys can't fix the cars without the computer telling them it's ok to fix it first. Since this is a warranty issue, the dealer needs to make sure that every t is crossed and every i is dotted to make sure they can get paid for the work they are doing. It's very frustrating because in the end the customer is the one that gets hurt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,853 Posts
Lemon law that bad boy and get a different jeep? Now unless they replace the engine, you'll be driving around in an engine that's been torn into several times. What happens when your out of warranty?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Depending on the state, you can't lemon law a pre-owned vehicle. Lemon law only applies to new cars usually.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
As a service manager for a dealership (non-jeep) I'm going to chime in here with a suggestion. You need to call and talk to Chrysler Customer Care. They need to be compensating you for the time down without the vehicle. You need to hammer home the "I'm making payments on a vehicle I can't drive" point. All of the work that the original dealer did and now the second dealer did should be documented with Chrysler and if need be have the regional rep get involved. Also, if this harness doesn't fix it you need to ask to have a Chrysler engineer come and visit with the dealer that has the jeep currently to advise on how to fix this issue. I find it hard to believe that a Powertrain warranty won't cover the engine itself.

I feel bad for the technicians that have been working on it because their hands are tied by the manufacturer as far as repair work goes. It's gotten to the point where the guys can't fix the cars without the computer telling them it's ok to fix it first. Since this is a warranty issue, the dealer needs to make sure that every t is crossed and every i is dotted to make sure they can get paid for the work they are doing. It's very frustrating because in the end the customer is the one that gets hurt.
i filed a claim with customer care. The lady there is supposed to be getting me a rental but as of friday I hadn't heard back.

I totally understand about them having to cross the t's to get chrysler to ok stuff its just at this point, we all kinda can see that its going to come to need a new block and they are putting it off.
Lemon law that bad boy and get a different jeep? Now unless they replace the engine, you'll be driving around in an engine that's been torn into several times. What happens when your out of warranty?
People keep saying that but the lemon law doesn't really apply to all vehicles or after a certain time period
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,276 Posts
Real sorry about all the trouble you're having.

Hindsight is always great, and I have to wonder if the original owner had this engine problem, knows exactly what caused it (something he did?), and walked away grinning from ear-to-ear that he was able to successfully dump his problems onto an unsuspecting AutoNation (who in turn passed it onto you).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,276 Posts
People keep saying that but the lemon law doesn't really apply to all vehicles or after a certain time period
I found this, and thought it might help:
In Alabama, your car may qualify as a lemon if:

  • It is 2 years old or less (or has 24,000 miles or less).
  • It has had 3 attempts or more to repair the issue by the manufacturer, a manufacturer's agent or an authorized dealer for the same defect.
  • It has been out of service for at least 30 days and in the possession of the manufacturer, a manufacturer's agent, or an authorized dealer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,853 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I found this, and thought it might help:
In Alabama, your car may qualify as a lemon if:

  • It is 2 years old or less (or has 24,000 miles or less).
  • It has had 3 attempts or more to repair the issue by the manufacturer, a manufacturer's agent or an authorized dealer for the same defect.
  • It has been out of service for at least 30 days and in the possession of the manufacturer, a manufacturer's agent, or an authorized dealer.
wow that last one really sounds like it would apply in this situation. Id really hate to involve lawyers if I dont have to. I just want my vehicle to be back in my possession and reliable
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
everything i have read on lemon laws seemed to imply that I had to be the original purchaser.

I bought this used at a non chrysler dealer. To be honest I am quite surprised that they didnt try to say that being a second hand owner I the powertrain warranty didnt apply to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,853 Posts
Here's your favorite part of the magnuson-moss warranty act.

A special note is in order regarding implied warranties on used merchandise. An implied warranty of merchantability on a used product is a promise that it can be used as expected, given its type and price range. As with new merchandise, implied warranties on used merchandise apply only when the seller is a merchant who deals in such goods, not when a sale is made by a private individual.

If you do not offer a written warranty, the law in most states allows you to disclaim implied warranties. However, selling without implied warranties may well indicate to potential customers that the product is risky—low quality, damaged, or discontinued—and therefore, should be available at a lower price.

In order to disclaim implied warranties, you must inform consumers in a conspicuous manner, and generally in writing, that you will not be responsible if the product malfunctions or is defective. It must be clear to consumers that the entire product risk falls on them. You must specifically indicate that you do not warrant "merchantability," or you must use a phrase such as "with all faults," or "as is." A few states have special laws on how you must phrase an "as is" disclosure. (For specific information on how your state treats "as is" disclosures, consult your attorney.)

Some states do not allow you to sell consumer products "as is." At this time, these states are Alabama, Connecticut, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, New Hampshire, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia, and the District of Columbia. In those states, sellers have implied warranty obligations that cannot be avoided.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,276 Posts
wow that last one really sounds like it would apply in this situation. Id really hate to involve lawyers if I dont have to. I just want my vehicle to be back in my possession and reliable
I would feel that all three points would need to apply, and you would have a tough time, unfortunately, meeting the first one.

Also they violated federal law by not giving you a copy of the warranty. I would want to know what the vehicle was in for before. Did it have a known engine problem before? I think a lawyer would be all over this.
Since this was purchased from a non-FCA dealer, I would think the seller would need to only provide a written copy of any warranty they were directly providing (if any).

The non-FCA dealer might not have any knowledge of any prior service preformed by another dealer, more specifically by a FCA dealer under warranty.

I would certainly quiz a lawyer on those pivotal distinctions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,853 Posts
I would feel that all three points would need to apply, and you would have a tough time, unfortunately, meeting the first one. Since this was purchased from a non-FCA dealer, I would think the seller would need to only provide a written copy of any warranty they were directly providing (if any). The non-FCA dealer might not have any knowledge of any prior service preformed by another dealer, more specifically by a FCA dealer under warranty. I would certainly quiz a lawyer on those pivotal distinctions.
I read it as the vehicle was in for warranty work at autonation before. I would want to know what that work was. I think a quick talk with a lawyer wouldn't cost to much. And you would have a much better understanding of your rights. I'd also contact your lender, since technically it's their vehicle and they have skin in the game. And I'd call my insurance company since you have a loss of vehicle. Something has to change because certainly nobody told you you were actually purchasing a 25,000 jeep shaped chicken coupe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I would feel that all three points would need to apply, and you would have a tough time, unfortunately, meeting the first one.



Since this was purchased from a non-FCA dealer, I would think the seller would need to only provide a written copy of any warranty they were directly providing (if any).

The non-FCA dealer might not have any knowledge of any prior service preformed by another dealer, more specifically by a FCA dealer under warranty.

I would certainly quiz a lawyer on those pivotal distinctions.
The vehicle was purchased from a non Jeep dealer. Interestingly enough I remember one of the documents saying something along the lines of as is or something like that. Thats interesting cause according to that info posted, you cant sell something as in in Alabama.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
So to clarify it was bought at a non jeep dealer but was at a jeep dealer because the vehicle is still under powertrain and its having the problem. It was the jeep dealer AutoNation that told me there is no written documentation on the powertrain warranty , which is obviously either ignorance or a bold lie.
 
1 - 20 of 48 Posts
Top