[Redneck07]

I use K&N in my jeep

 

[TJeepman]

I have serious doubt that Fram is the OE manufacturer of any of those brand's oil filters. I also seriously doubt that Honda installs Fram oil filters or oil filters made by Fram. Try reading one of the oil filter tests on what has been found by those who have cut open Fram oil filters sometime, you'll quickly lose your love for Fram's junk.

I have cut filters apart - a year or so ago. Still have the pieces.

Cellulose fibre end caps, used on some Frams (not on the Xtended Guard), aren't bad. The only purpose of the end cap is to seal the ends of the filter media pleats to prevent oil passage there. Since oil is already passing through a cellulose/ cellulose composite filter, having that cellulose glued to cellulose end caps, versus metal end caps, isn't a stretch. The glue likely adheres better cellulose to cellulose than metal to cellulose.

Heard somewhere that some Toyota oil filters just have the ends of the pleats glued to seal them, no end caps. Haven't cut one of those apart but that technology isn't a stretch either.

Champion filters have fibre end caps and a plastic core tube in their Ecore design. I believe Champion makes AC Delco filters now, AC Delco not making filters anymore.

I have no particular love for Fram, just being a devil's advoate when it comes to bashing in general. Those on the Toyota and Honda 4WD sites think Jeeps are junk and use Consumer Reports for backup to that thinking. They bash but they are polarized and misinformed in their thinking. Same here as to Fram. Fram isn't a mickey mouse company.

Over the years I used a lot of Motormaster oil filters and never had a problem. I found out a year or so ago that they are made by Fram. Today it's Mopar filters which I can get for $2.50 each. $ talks.

Oh yes, the Honda oil filters. Have seen, on different occassions, that Honda oil filters are made by Fram (Honeywell). One occassion was from a Minivan Forum I'm on and the Poster was a Fram representative. Also see this BITOG Post.

The way to tell if a product is bad is to check out the lawsuits. An oil filter company can't afford too many of those before they start making changes in design. How long have the cellulose based end caps and filter media been around. Lets say over 45 years.

The filter media, which in some cases feature metal screenbacks for additional protection, is held in place inside the oil filter canister by end caps and a special adhesive. Most end caps are made of metal, however, several FRAM filters feature cellulose fiber end caps.

Fiber end caps are a logical alternative to metal end discs. Like the fibrous filter media, they provide an excellent bonding surface for the adhesive providing a very robust seal. They have proven durability in FRAM filters for more than 45 years.

45 years .... that's longer than most of the Fram bashers have been around.

 

[Ggg]

The way to tell if a product is bad is to check out the lawsuits.

IMO this is one of the worst possible ways to determine a quality product. To make that statement takes a "polorized misinformed" opinion. No offense meant TJeepeman, but I could not resist the irony.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

There are some who just like to argue for argument's sake and with those, I quickly stop paying attention to them.

 

[Neil F.]

I concur with the law suit example. In the litagation happy world we exist in, if Fram filters (and others) had the design potential to cause engine failue, there would be class action lawers after them all the time. I've seen all the Fram bashing on soooooooooo many forums and 99% is people just repeat spitting out the same stuff. Marketing alone has not kept Fram as the numer one selling filter. If they really and truly were bad, more information would be out in the main stream media as opposed to word of mouth and cyberspace..

 

[TJeepman]

IMO this is one of the worst possible ways to determine a quality product. To make that statement takes a "polorized misinformed" opinion. No offense meant TJeepeman, but I could not resist the irony.

No offense taken.
It helps let you know if there are "possible" real problems out there versus "wishful thinking" that a problem exists.
There must be lots of law suits against Fram for "junk" oil filters, one would think. Maybe they don't have any more lawsuits per oil filter, and they make a lot of filters, than any other company.
Fair is fair. Bashing normally isn't.

 

[TJeepman]

I concur with the law suit example. In the litagation happy world we exist in, if Fram filters (and others) had the design potential to cause engine failue, there would be class action lawers after them all the time. I've seen all the Fram bashing on soooooooooo many forums and 99% is people just repeat spitting out the same stuff. Marketing alone has not kept Fram as the numer one selling filter. If they really and truly were bad, more information would be out in the main stream media as opposed to word of mouth and cyberspace..

Exactly. The "Fram is junk" glove doesn't fit.

 

[rrich]

I haven't cut open or taken a Fram filter apart. But I've heard stories of about how they've "blown out" - the thin can failed. I can see that happening - simply squeeze the filter with your fingers, they dent very easily. Others like WIX don't, the metal is a tad thicker.
When I was still using Fram I installed one - it leaked, the can's swaging was defective - but that can happen to anyone's. But after hearing about the blowing out I got rid of them.
I do know the quality of their air filters leaves something to be desired - look through a new one - you often can see holes, voids or thin spots in the filter material.
When all the discount store sell them, do you think they pay more than other types? How is it Fram can sell them retail for far less than others can wholesale there must be a reason? China?

When you buy quality you soon forget the price, when you buy junk, you never forget the COST!

 

[teknoid]

I haven't cut open or taken a Fram filter apart. But I've heard stories of about how they've "blown out" - the thin can failed. I can see that happening - simply squeeze the filter with your fingers, they dent very easily. Others like WIX don't, the metal is a tad thicker.
When I was still using Fram I installed one - it leaked, the can's swaging was defective - but that can happen to anyone's. But after hearing about the blowing out I got rid of them.
I do know the quality of their air filters leaves something to be desired - look through a new one - you often can see holes, voids or thin spots in the filter material.
When all the discount store sell them, do you think they pay more than other types? How is it Fram can sell them retail for far less than others can wholesale there must be a reason? China?

When you buy quality you soon forget the price, when you buy junk, you never forget the COST!

That's why I quit using Fram filters. Driving down the road less than 1k miles after the last oil change, and heard a pop. Stopped and saw oil everywhere. Didn't take long to find the reason. I had only the filter base attached. The rest was gone.

A fluke? Maybe, but I don't take chances. It's never happened again in 25 years, but then again, I've never used another Fram.

 

[TJeepman]

A fluke? Maybe, but I don't take chances. It's never happened again in 25 years, but then again, I've never used another Fram.

Could have been a defect but normally due to the oil pressure regulating valve, outside the filter, acting up according to the Filter Manufacturers Council.

From time to time every filter manufacturer has had a filter that has been severely over pressurized returned from a customer. Often the deformed filter is the only sign the car owner has that a problem existed in their lube oil system.
It's possible that the damaged filter was not noticed until it was removed during the next scheduled oil change. However, if the pressure was sufficient to blow out the gasket or unroll the lockseam, the car owner may have experienced immediate and costly problems.
With the "evidence" in their hands, they tend to put the blame on the damaged filter. It's not surprising that they are more than a little aggravated when the filter manufacturer denies any responsibility for the damage. What, then, has caused the over-pressurization?

More on that here.

Excessive engine pressure is the result of a faulty oil pressure regulating valve. There are two ways that the valve fails to operate correctly: either it sticks in the closed position, or it is slow to move to the open position after the engine has started. Unfortunately, a stuck valve can free itself after filter failure, leaving no evidence of any malfunction.

Cellulose fiber end caps or death wobble, which would you rather have? Just kidding. But "death woggle" sounds scary. I imagine the Jeep bashers mention that alot.

 

[Blueboat]

Don’t know about law suits. Had a friend I worked with at Allied signal the engine in his van stopped running, the material in the Fram filter plugged his oil passages and the engine was toast. Fram paid to have his engine rebuilt only after he got a lawyer involved. The funny thing was Fram filters was a subsidiary of Allied Signal so the company we worked for owned Fram and the filter toasted his engine.
Mike

 

[Scoob]

Here is a post about oil filter by a guy who knows what he is talking about, unlike the local fram fan boy.

Doctor D

Complete with pics of cut open filters and why they are good or bad.

That post alone proves why your precious fram is a p.o.s.
Please show us all your "data" to prove other wise. I am sure you have tons.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Here's something interesting...

Because I've been bashing Fram oil filters for so many years and my name is out so often on the various Jeep forums, Fram just invited me and nine others from across the U.S. to their facilities in Toledo Ohio mid-May for a 1.5 day meeting, and tour of their labs and manufacturing area for their oil filter (primarily I think) design and manufacturing operation. All they've asked of me is to keep an open mind while there.

I'll go back there with printouts from all the various oil filter tests showing the inside of various filters that have been cut open and see how they respond to some of the more glaring problems shown in the photos that are so well know with at least their base line filters. I'll be looking for answers on the problems noted in the various studies and I'll be sure to note what they say and what I see.

Should be interesting, I'm looking forward to hearing what Fram's engineers and their tech staff have to say. It's clear from this invitation that they know there's a number of "vocal" types like me who aren't impressed with Fram's oil filters.

 

[Black98]

^ have fun with that jerry, next K&N will be inviting you to their facility

 

[doclouie]

That is awesome Jerry. I look forward to hearing your report. Companies are starting to realize that people on forums and blogs have quite a bit of power. I know specifically that Edge Products has full time people who jut monitor websites.

If you get a chance take in the sites that are around there. Put in bay is a place that everyone I think needs to see. It is on South Bass island.

 

[Audience]

Interesting info about Fram; I had always heard (mostly from my dad) that they were a brand best avoided, but no one could ever tell me why.

I've always run either K&N or Mobil1 filters on my vehicles over the years, and found both to be excellent. On my current ride I use K&N. They do cost a little more but I don't mind.

 

[Redneck07]

I have used fram (both air and oil filters) on all my vehicles and still do. Never had a problem with any fram filter and i use to run my cars hard and at high rpm cuz i raced my buddies. My jeep is running k&n oil filter but my other car and my girls car have fram

 

[Rubicon2]

I have used fram (both air and oil filters) on all my vehicles and still do. Never had a problem with any fram filter and i use to run my cars hard and at high rpm cuz i raced my buddies. My jeep is running k&n oil filter but my other car and my girls car have fram

x2

 

[98tj25l]

This video shows where the void usually occurs. I have heard of this problem from multiple people, one is a mechanic friend. Jerry, maybe you could present this to Fram, and ask why something like that made it through QC.

YouTube - Are Fram Oil Filters The Best ?

 

[teknoid]

Could have been a defect but normally due to the oil pressure regulating valve, outside the filter, acting up according to the Filter Manufacturers Council.

If that was the case, I would think the filters I used after that would have experienced similar problems. I owned that truck (F-150) for five more years, and never had any problems. Kinda tells me it was a crappy (Fram) filter.