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Discussion Starter #1
So what is the latest and greatest way to purchase a '13? Is it still the Tread Lightly discount? I found one I like with an MSRP of $35,880 less $4,270 plus $270 doc fee totaling $31,880. All in it is $4,000 off plus tax. Is Tread Lightly a better deal? What discounts are you seeing?

Is the engine head issue going to haunt me on a 2013???????
 

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I got 2% below invoice. I told him I have TL and can you do better than the 1%, he said ill do 2% I was happy with that. Done deal
 

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So what is the latest and greatest way to purchase a '13? Is it still the Tread Lightly discount? I found one I like with an MSRP of $35,880 less $4,270 plus $270 doc fee totaling $31,880. All in it is $4,000 off plus tax. Is Tread Lightly a better deal? What discounts are you seeing?
Sounds like a great deal to me; that's almost 12% off sticker! I ordered mine at invoice less 3%, which is about 9% off MSRP; your deal is even better. The TL discount qualifies you for "Affiliate Pricing", which is invoice less 1% per Jeep's own pricing sheets, although some dealers might take off another point or two. In my case, TL membership wasn't even necessary.

Your doc fee seems a little high, but might be in line with what's usually charged in your city. I've seen 'em vary from $100 to $300 or more, depending on vehicle make, location, etc. It's just another way for the dealership to make a little extra profit, and can also be negotiated. As long as the dealer doesn't start adding anything else (other than gov't-mandated inspection and registration fees + sales taxes), I think you're in good shape. Let us know how it works out.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ended up doing a little better to get the deal closed. MSRP $35,880 less 4,500 discount plus $270 doc fee, purchase price of $31,650 plus tax and license. The last day of the month always works wonders on the dealers attitude.
 

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Just ordered a 2013 Rubicon Unlimited from Dywane Lanes in Everett, WA..

True Blue Tintcoat
24R (Auto)
Remote Start
Auto Climate
Leather Seats
Connectivity
4.10 Axle
Hard Top (Soft top delete)

MSRP 39170
Invoice: 36784
Price before taxes, down payment, etc: 36,100 or about %2 below invoice
 

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For me, the best way to get a price was to email the dealer and ask:

1) Do you participate in the Chrysler Affiliates Purchase Program? (i.e., 1% under invoice and $75 max dealer fee)

2) For non-affiliate program purchases, what are your dealer fees? (excluding tax and DMV)

3) What is your best price (with dealer processing fees) for a non-affiliate program purchase for VIN xxxxxxxxxxx?


The dealer I went with offered 3% under invoice, but when you added their standard doc fee, I was at 1.75% under. Their standard doc fee is fairly high, but that deal was still better than 1% under plus $75.

Fairly painless. Might have been able to do better, but I wanted a specific set of options on a JKR and this dealer had JKRs configured that way...in three different colors...so I didn't need to wait two months. If I was custom ordering, I probably could have gotten a slightly better deal.

Thus, I never ended up using the TL deal...but I think that even mentioning it gets them in the mode of knowing that they are dealing with someone who knows where the price discussion should be starting. By the way, I would say "Affiliate Program Purchase" instead of "Tread Lightly deal". The former is more general...and more sales people should recognize it.
 

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By the way, I would say "Affiliate Program Purchase" instead of "Tread Lightly deal". The former is more general...and more sales people should recognize it.
I agree with your post across the board, but I agree strongtly with this part in particular. Nearly all dealers are familiar with the affiliate rewards program, but very few (in my experience only one) know about tread lightly.

How can the dealers make a living selling under invoice? Just wondering.
I don't really understand how, but I can attest first hand that some can, and significantly below invoice at that. I suspect high volume dealers get substantial kickback incentives from Chrysler, so they are less concerned with making a little bit more on each vehicle and instead just try to move as many vehicles as possible. And educated customers that ask for the lowest possible price using the affiliate rewards program, those volume dealers do straight for the jugular and give the lowest price around.
 

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How can the dealers make a living selling under invoice? Just wondering.

Well, I'll start by saying that I am not an expert...but I have a close friend who sold cars for another manufacturer for years...so this is based on speaking with him.

What they get from Chrysler:

  1. Holdback payment - 3% of MSRP for Chrysler vehicles...received from Chrysler...usually quarterly. That could easily be anywhere from $750 to $1200 on a Wrangler
  2. Other factory-to-dealer direct incentives/payments, including:
    • Advertising credits
    • Flooring assistance
    • Floor interest reserve
    • Floor plan allowance
    • Transfer balance
    • Wholesale reserve
    • Wholesale credits
Also, some factory-to-dealer rebates are volume-based, so selling another Wrangler at the end of a month or quarter could result in increased rebates across all vehicles sold in that period.

They then get more from you:

  1. Doc prep fees
  2. Dealer-sold options - e.g., rustproofing, service plans
  3. Financing
  4. Trade-in
They can make quite a bit on a trade-in...especially if they lowball you. It all depends on how they plan to sell it. They could wholesale it, sell it themselves with a warranty, or sell it as-is. Either way, they can easily make $1000 on an average trade if they buy for the dealer trade price and sell for dealer retail...and sometimes they do little more than fill the tank, wash/wax/vacuum, and drop a sticker on it. They can often make more.

Financing is also a huge source of revenue. At my friend's dealership, the finance guy made more money than anyone else there.

While it may vary between dealerships, my buddy got almost nothing for a car sold at or near invoice. He referred to those buyers as "grinders". His commission was based on profit above invoice.

As you can see, a dealer can make a lot on vehicle sold at or even below invoice, but my friend walks with almost nothing...which is why I am a little sympathetic with sales guys when I hear they are not being responsive for a sale conducted under invoice. That said, they represent the dealership and the sales manager would sure as heck not be happy to hear that one has dropped the ball...because that sale means real income to the dealership. He'll want them to take care of all customers...and it is their responsibility to make money where and when they can. They also know that Chrysler will be calling the buyer to ask how it went.
 

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Good info. Makes a lot of sense. It shows how flexible dealership profits can be (but not necessarily sales staff commissions). It also makes sense regarding the deal I got since it came from the internet sales manager. He probably doesn't walk the lot like most of the sales staff and is probably more concerned with the # of vehicles he sells than how much he gets out of each customer. Win win situation for me and him I'd guess. I also took very little of his time. An initial email, a couple of short 5 minute phone calls and then he had a sold order to show from it.
 

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The invoice thing is really easy to figure out for pricing, if you want to deduct everything else.. for example:

MSRP $40,000
Holdback = $1200
Invoice =~ $37600 (6% under MSRP)
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So if you get it 2% under invoice its 36848, which still gives the dealer about $500 in holdback.

Then there are all the other incentives.. so its easy to calculate just how much the dealer makes at invoice, and work from there.
 

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so is it a good starting point to ask for 2% under invoice and be firm? *then keep eye out for sneeky dealer fees?*
 

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so is it a good starting point to ask for 2% under invoice and be firm? *then keep eye out for sneeky dealer fees?*
I personally like to negotiate using the out the door price. That way it is harder for them to get sneaky. I would figure out how much 2% below is, add on your state fees, and a modest document/administrative fee ($75-150). Then bid slightly below that as a starting point.

Once you get an offer for a vehicle, take it to other dealers and ask them if they can beat it. If they do, take the second offer back to the first dealer and give them a second chance and so forth.
 

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SCCSD78 said:
so is it a good starting point to ask for 2% under invoice and be firm? *then keep eye out for sneeky dealer fees?*
Excellent point. Remember, an extra 1% under invoice on a 30,000 item is $300, something the dealer can make back on you in low ball trade, an extra 50 basis points in financing, other dealer fees. So you think you are getting a great deal at 2% under invoice (dealers know invoice is available online), but you are getting hit elsewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
My '13 Rubicon ended up at 12.5% or $4,500 off MSRP which I believe was a really good deal. What you really need to watch out for is the doc fee. I had to pay $270 which is crazy but simply ask what the fee is before you begin any negotiations. Don't mess around with the "on the road" or "out the door" amounts as the dealer has nothing to do with the taxes, title fees and license fees. Negotiate the price using the additional knowledge of what the doc fee is.

I was in a dealership for ten years, negotiating an on the road price is a fools bet, you will get confused and they won't. It's a nice way to get your head handed to you.
 

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My '13 Rubicon ended up at 12.5% or $4,500 off MSRP which I believe was a really good deal. What you really need to watch out for is the doc fee. I had to pay $270 which is crazy but simply ask what the fee is before you begin any negotiations. Don't mess around with the "on the road" or "out the door" amounts as the dealer has nothing to do with the taxes, title fees and license fees. Negotiate the price using the additional knowledge of what the doc fee is.

I was in a dealership for ten years, negotiating an on the road price is a fools bet, you will get confused and they won't. It's a nice way to get your head handed to you.
I respectfully disagree. Any savvy buyer can easily figure out how much their state's fees are. Doc fees aren't the only place they try to get you. I've seen advertising fees, prep fees, and attempted forced dealer options. You can avoid that game by negotiating out the door. If you can't figure out how much TTL will cost you, then maybe you are better off sticking to vehicle price, or maybe you should take someone with you to help.
 
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