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Discussion Starter #1
I'm aware of the flicker issue PWM presents for LED headlights and the various solutions to the problem: expensive aftermarket LED lights with built-in anti-flicker, anti-flicker harnesses, homemade rigs with capacitors and diodes and a dealer change to the 'as built' menu (TSB 5SX?)

I'm old school, wary of 'the latest and greatest' and hate most LED installations as they are blinding from bad engineering, bad aiming or both (looking at YOU, winged Honda-boys with 15 degrees of camber on the back tires and coffee can exhaust). I went with Hella E-code bulbs, 100/55w H4 bulbs and a harness off the battery using the old headlight plugs for signals to the relays. The improvement over the stock headlights is amazing!

Unfortunately, the *&%# PWM voltage variation causes the relays to buzz and will certainly shorten their life but the stealership wants $150 to add the LED headlight option to the computer, the dirty swine.

My question is why don't the stock headlight relays buzz from PWM? Are they special relays that will run on 8-12v signal or do they get a 'clean' non-PWM 12v signal when you turn on the headlights? I can't check it as the frequency is faster than my voltmeter reacts. If they get a clean signal then it should be possible to supply this signal to my added harness relays, does anyone know where the best spot for this might be? I suppose I could just pull the stock relays from the box and add the appropriate blade connection to my signal wire and plug into the signal connector but wanted to ask as someone has certainly been down this road before given the crap stock headlights running on 8-12v so basically 10v dimness...

Thank you for your attention and help!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Another approach may be the JScan app and a bluetooth OBD tool, maybe that will allow me to add the LED headlight option to the as-built list to defeat PWM... Bluetooth OBD tool is on its way and JScan installed on phone.
 

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I'm aware of the flicker issue PWM presents for LED headlights and the various solutions to the problem: expensive aftermarket LED lights with built-in anti-flicker, anti-flicker harnesses, homemade rigs with capacitors and diodes and a dealer change to the 'as built' menu (TSB 5SX?)

I'm old school, wary of 'the latest and greatest' and hate most LED installations as they are blinding from bad engineering, bad aiming or both (looking at YOU, winged Honda-boys with 15 degrees of camber on the back tires and coffee can exhaust). I went with Hella E-code bulbs, 100/55w H4 bulbs and a harness off the battery using the old headlight plugs for signals to the relays. The improvement over the stock headlights is amazing!

Unfortunately, the *&%# PWM voltage variation causes the relays to buzz and will certainly shorten their life but the stealership wants $150 to add the LED headlight option to the computer, the dirty swine.

My question is why don't the stock headlight relays buzz from PWM? Are they special relays that will run on 8-12v signal or do they get a 'clean' non-PWM 12v signal when you turn on the headlights? I can't check it as the frequency is faster than my voltmeter reacts. If they get a clean signal then it should be possible to supply this signal to my added harness relays, does anyone know where the best spot for this might be? I suppose I could just pull the stock relays from the box and add the appropriate blade connection to my signal wire and plug into the signal connector but wanted to ask as someone has certainly been down this road before given the crap stock headlights running on 8-12v so basically 10v dimness...

Thank you for your attention and help!
There are no relays in the stock headlight power system. If you bought the SMS relay harness, it has the anti flicker built in it to protect the relays... If you bought a cheap Amazon harness, it isn't designed for for our PWM setup either.

Good quality (not Amazon cheapo's) LED headlights have excellent design and fantastic cutoff and do not blind at all...

I ran the Hella setup for a year, still have it in the garage. It was a nice upgrade from the stock buckets, but without the SMS harness, it was not up to the performance of the LED options.

Lastly, by using the 100/55's, you are now technically illegal... So while you yelled at the "winged Honda boys", you just joined their club.

https://www.rallylights.com/hl28130jp-sms-h13-to-h4-upgrade-headlamp-harness-for-jeep-jk-wrangler-2007.html
 

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Pressurized: Thank you for the reply, I'm amazed two of those many relays aren't headlight relays! Next is to try the JScan and then I guess it will be capacitors and diodes, looks like 220uf will do it from what I've seen online.

I realize there are good aftermarket LED headlights, I just won't spend $600 on them to make a new Jeep's headlights good enough to drive with nor will I spend $500 on stock LEDs and then another $149 for the dealer to check a box on a menu in the 'puter. I didn't say anything about legal or illegal as most of the mods we make on our jeeps are 'illegal' in some sense, either fed or state, think bumper height w lifts, wheel and gearing changes not part of EPA test cycles, various engine mods, reflashes, chips, etc. What I am speaking to are the aftermarket lights of any kind that blind oncoming traffic, they simply have to be properly designed and aimed. I ran similar Hellas for years back in the sealed beam only days (ok, I'm old) but made sure they were properly aimed and didn't high-beam people with 100 watts. It's only a matter of time before the more heavy handed states go after (ha) aftermarket lights because some people just don't care about others sharing the roads. I'm sure the manufacturers would love this as then they could sell the better headlights only with expensive packages, "Want LED? They only come with the Gee-Whiz Package for $2,675 but you have to start with the XL model, it's not available on the X..."
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Or am I being mislead by the interwebtubes about PWM? I've read that you can't swap stock LED headlights into a non-LED Jeep without suffering the dreaded flicker without paying the stealership to check the LED headlight box in 'Dealer Connect' interface or employing anti-flicker devices.

This would mean that the PWM can be defeated in the computer so the relays would work. Anyone have experience with this?
 

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Pressurized: Thank you for the reply, I'm amazed two of those many relays aren't headlight relays! Next is to try the JScan and then I guess it will be capacitors and diodes, looks like 220uf will do it from what I've seen online.

I realize there are good aftermarket LED headlights, I just won't spend $600 on them to make a new Jeep's headlights good enough to drive with nor will I spend $500 on stock LEDs and then another $149 for the dealer to check a box on a menu in the 'puter. I didn't say anything about legal or illegal as most of the mods we make on our jeeps are 'illegal' in some sense, either fed or state, think bumper height w lifts, wheel and gearing changes not part of EPA test cycles, various engine mods, reflashes, chips, etc. What I am speaking to are the aftermarket lights of any kind that blind oncoming traffic, they simply have to be properly designed and aimed. I ran similar Hellas for years back in the sealed beam only days (ok, I'm old) but made sure they were properly aimed and didn't high-beam people with 100 watts. It's only a matter of time before the more heavy handed states go after (ha) aftermarket lights because some people just don't care about others sharing the roads. I'm sure the manufacturers would love this as then they could sell the better headlights only with expensive packages, "Want LED? They only come with the Gee-Whiz Package for $2,675 but you have to start with the XL model, it's not available on the X..."
The reason they actually flicker is because they receive the PWM signal where the power is turned on and off quickly and the LED instantly sees the power off and goes dark where the stock Halogen bulb is still hot and even though the power is off for a super short period of time, the hot element still produces light.

As for the programmers, I do think there are a few that allow you to turn on the LED option. I'm sure there will be more posts on that forthcoming... That is your best bet.

Here are some under $300 (on sale) with the pulse with modulator that also converts from H13 to H4.


https://www.quadratec.com/p/quadratec/gen-II-led-headlights-07-17-jeep-wrangler-jk
Definitely a great option for around $300...
 

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I'm guessing it's the relay that's buzzing. you could just add a big cap and it will smooth out the PWM to a constant DC.
 

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Why didn't you tell me? I sent all my money up to Pennsylvanian when you could have had some for coffee money.
Well, it was back in 2013... But I can still spend some money on coffee.
 

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I am running the SMS box in her 15 JKUR on Cibie housings with Hella 90-130 bulbs with no problems. On my 09 JK I took the eBay relay box that I was using on my TJ and that had no issues but the contacts started sticking (sometimes had to open the hood and tap it to get the headlights to turn off). It must have been happy with the voltage level because it never buzzed. Swapped it for a new one and had to fit a truck-lite anti flicker into the circuit. Also took care of my H13 to H4 adapter.
 

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I am running the SMS box in her 15 JKUR on Cibie housings with Hella 90-130 bulbs with no problems. On my 09 JK I took the eBay relay box that I was using on my TJ and that had no issues but the contacts started sticking (sometimes had to open the hood and tap it to get the headlights to turn off). It must have been happy with the voltage level because it never buzzed. Swapped it for a new one and had to fit a truck-lite anti flicker into the circuit. Also took care of my H13 to H4 adapter.
It would make sense to use the econo relay harness since many of us already have anti-flicker harnesses laying around from early on LED installs. That would do the H13 to H4 conversion than the relay harness then the H4 bulb... The only downside then is running the Halogen at full voltage is a noticeable decrease in lifespan.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Victory is mine, or so it appears...

Downloaded JScan app and bought Vgate OBD Bluetooth reader, had to pay additional $16 for one VIN license, but was it was easy to add LED headlight option and now I don't hear any relay buzz.

While I was in there I deleted the annoying seatbelt chime as I don't need the nanny-state reminding me to buckle up when poking around on tame (and private) woods roads.

So for $51 total I can change the as built settings as things are added, wheel size or gearing changes, plus replace the old corded OBD reader that the maker refuses to update software on, what's not to like!?

Thanks for all your help, what a great resource this site is!
 

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Victory is mine, or so it appears...

Downloaded JScan app and bought Vgate OBD Bluetooth reader, had to pay additional $16 for one VIN license, but was it was easy to add LED headlight option and now I don't hear any relay buzz.

While I was in there I deleted the annoying seatbelt chime as I don't need the nanny-state reminding me to buckle up when poking around on tame (and private) woods roads.

So for $51 total I can change the as built settings as things are added, wheel size or gearing changes, plus replace the old corded OBD reader that the maker refuses to update software on, what's not to like!?

Thanks for all your help, what a great resource this site is!
Good deal! JScan is supposed to be the cats meow... I haven't tried it yet.
 

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J scan is the cats meow, I got it recently just to check my wheel sensor codes as the cheap OBD scanner my local Advance Auto has can't check ABS codes. Well worth the money. In fact I'll be willing to sell you my AEV procal for a deal!!
 

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Victory is mine, or so it appears...

Downloaded JScan app and bought Vgate OBD Bluetooth reader, had to pay additional $16 for one VIN license, but was it was easy to add LED headlight option and now I don't hear any relay buzz.

While I was in there I deleted the annoying seatbelt chime as I don't need the nanny-state reminding me to buckle up when poking around on tame (and private) woods roads.

So for $51 total I can change the as built settings as things are added, wheel size or gearing changes, plus replace the old corded OBD reader that the maker refuses to update software on, what's not to like!?

Thanks for all your help, what a great resource this site is!
I disabled the seatbelt chime on my 09 with the button sequence. Does the LED option work on all JK's?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
terpsmandan: I can't answer if the LED option works on all JKs but it did work on my '18. The J Scan approach was easier than capacitors, cheaper than anti-flicker harnesses, WAY cheaper than proper LED headlights, allows me to adjust for mods in the future like tire size and, of course, has the OBD reader function.

Hopefully someone with a lot more knowledge will chime in about the JK computer evolution...
 
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