Jeep Wrangler Forum banner
1 - 20 of 46 Posts

·
Registered
2016 Wrangler JKU 3.6 Backcountry
Joined
·
449 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hold it! Pls don't turn this into an armswrestle about which are the "correct" gear ratios for 3.6 with this and that. That's besides the point here, what I'm asking is:

Why does it seem like every regearing thread overlooks the 4lo when mentioning trail riding or rockcrawling?

I do get that mostly the regearing questions/debates arise from the need to tow something high up, with the veiled motivation of no longer being shamed by yotas at traffic lights. But: offroad capabilities do pop up as an argument every now and then, which is why a mechanically and enginerdly inclined noob like myself is puzzled as to why wouldn't one just pop the rig in 4lo?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,897 Posts
The final ratio in the differentials will also promote the leverage you have in your transfer case drive ratio and trans gearing ratio so you get more tq multiplication as a result in 4hi or 4lo. From there I don’t understand what your question is ? What do you mean as to why wouldn't one just pop the rig in 4lo?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
497 Posts
Hold it! Pls don't turn this into an armswrestle about which are the "correct" gear ratios for 3.6 with this and that. That's besides the point here, what I'm asking is:

Why does it seem like every regearing thread overlooks the 4lo when mentioning trail riding or rockcrawling?

I do get that mostly the regearing questions/debates arise from the need to tow something high up, with the veiled motivation of no longer being shamed by yotas at traffic lights. But: offroad capabilities do pop up as an argument every now and then, which is why a mechanically and enginerdly inclined noob like myself is puzzled as to why wouldn't one just pop the rig in 4lo?
Well 4lo is only meant for part time use, It isn't designed to be used regularly on the street. The planetary gears would overheat and where out quickly and the chain would stretch.

Now trying to use it for gear reduction isn't practical. It can't be shifted on the fly. Even with 3.21 rear gears; a non-Rubicon with 2.72 low would make the rear gears equivalent to 8.7 to 1. With a Rubicon 4 to 1 low it would make the 3.21 gears equivalent to 12.8 to 1. Even in a hypothetical situation where you removed the front driveshaft; you wouldn't be able to shift on the fly so depending on which low you had a gearing you would probably top out at highway speeds.

It is very rare to hear someone say I wish I didn't have 4 to 1 low unless they have big power or primarily only do sand dunes. For most of us, the 4 to 1 low is an excellent gear reduction for offroad use.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Longtallsally

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,377 Posts
Most regearing is done to compensate for installing larger/taller tires regardless of towing or not. When it comes to off roading and rock crawling, the lower the better so installing lower gears for the road is only going to make it better off road as well. 4lo is NOT meant for everyday driving or pavement, so I'm not sure what you mean by "why wouldn't one just pop the rig in 4lo?" You can't/shouldn't use 4lo on pavement even with stock gears.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,426 Posts
Maybe I'm not fully understanding the question. We get lower gears so that 4 low can be even lower.

4 low with 3.21s on 40" tires is not the same as 4 low with 5.38s and 40" tires.

I think you might be confused about the purpose of 4 low. Think of it like this. Your power drill likely has 2 gears, High and Low. Say you needed to drill a hole through steel and to keep from burning up your bit, you want to keep it slow. Would you run it in high gear, with your finger barely on the trigger, or would you run it in low gear and have full control of the bit speed?
 

·
Registered
2016 Wrangler JKU 3.6 Backcountry
Joined
·
449 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Oh man, this went downhill right form the start 😃

I understand perfectly well 4lo is not meant for use on paved road. Even 4hi is not, says so on the manual. I do also realize it is not a substitute for regearing when one gets bigger tires. I asked:

But: offroad capabilities do pop up as an argument [for regearing] every now and then, which is why a mechanically and enginerdly inclined noob like myself is puzzled as to why wouldn't one just pop the rig in 4lo?

So I was wondering specifically about the offroad situations, isn't the 4lo enough, even with bigger tires? I mean I've tried 4lo, and I bet my ass I won't run out of torque before I run out of traction with 4lo on.

Again, I reiterate: I understand the need for regearing to compensate for lost onroad performance, or to improve it with stock tireswhen towing and/or for high altitude driving, this is not what I'm asking about. I do not understand (perhaps yet) the argument regearing is necessary for offroad performance. I remain open minded about this, and I may very well be wrong.

P.S. I also know there is a speed limit for 4lo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
742 Posts
It is very rare to hear someone say I wish I didn't have 4 to 1 low unless they have big power or primarily only do sand dunes. For most of us, the 4 to 1 low is an excellent gear reduction for offroad use.
i steered clear of the 4/1 and lockers ,therefor a rubi, because of snow and ice
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
349 Posts
Oh man, this went downhill right form the start

I understand perfectly well 4lo is not meant for use on paved road. Even 4hi is not, says so on the manual. I do also realize it is not a substitute for regearing when one gets bigger tires. I asked:

But: offroad capabilities do pop up as an argument [for regearing] every now and then, which is why a mechanically and enginerdly inclined noob like myself is puzzled as to why wouldn't one just pop the rig in 4lo?

So I was wondering specifically about the offroad situations, isn't the 4lo enough, even with bigger tires? I mean I've tried 4lo, and I bet my ass I won't run out of torque before I run out of traction with 4lo on.

Again, I reiterate: I understand the need for regearing to compensate for lost onroad performance, or to improve it with stock tireswhen towing and/or for high altitude driving, this is not what I'm asking about. I do not understand (perhaps yet) the argument regearing is necessary for offroad performance. I remain open minded about this, and I may very well be wrong.

P.S. I also know there is a speed limit for 4lo.
I think I understand what your asking.
When I had 3.21 gears with 35” tires and I was rock crawling I found myself having to use the skinny pedal alot.
Some hills so steep I had to press gas hard with little control, now gear 488 gearing and I added 4-1 transfer case when rock crawling it’s exactly that, the Jeep crawls itself without having to press gas as much as I did with 3.21 gears.
Hills she just climbs up with control especially dry sunny rocks.
Best money spent was regearing for both on and off road IMHO.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalki
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,426 Posts
So I was wondering specifically about the offroad situations, isn't the 4lo enough, even with bigger tires?
No. You are also limiting yourself to one transmission gear, among many other reasons.

Story time, I had a buddy who went through multiple jeeps. He refused to ever regear anything.

His first one was a 2011 sport with 3.21s and 37s. He could only get over things by ramming his way through, and he broke lots of stuff because he couldnt crawl.

He traded that one for a 2014 Rubicon. A step in the right direction, but he left the 4.10s in it and put some 40s on it. Same story, he just rammed into everything, because he couldnt crawl.

I'm not talking about hard stuff either. 5.38s will just idle over the stuff.

The only people out there purposely going to higher gears are the rock bouncers, mainly because the whole point is to blast over stuff, and also because higher gears are a little stronger generally. Also the ultra4 guys because they are regularly seeing 120+
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,549 Posts
Yes, in most situations 4 low is usually enough to get you through most places, probably, usually.
 
  • Like
Reactions: White Elemant

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
Roger, thanks guys! So regearing would be both a performance and a convinience factor when offroading. 4lo would be limited to some specially tricky spots or sections, right?
Guess it depends on your terrain. My usual scenario is 2-Hi on the pavement, 4-Hi on the dirt roads, and 4-Lo once I reach the trail. Air down and disconnect somewhere between the pavement and the trail. The jeep trails around here call for 4-Lo the entire trail.
 

·
Registered
2013 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 10th Anniversary Edition
Joined
·
484 Posts
I have wondered the same thing. when running the BDR this summer I used 4lo for steep uphill sections and when I needed to crawl along. one stretch was about 15 miles in 4 low. I can run in 4th and 5th when I don't need the lower gears and drop down as needed.

this, however, us I think why guys say to regear for 35s down to 456 or 488 gears.

However with the 410s and 35s it seems like the sweet spot for howdy drivi g and around town
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,335 Posts
I've owned a dozen 4x4's over the years, used low range in all of them, never felt the need to re-gear any of them.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,709 Posts
4Low isn’t a substitute for regearing. With or without regearing you will want to use 4Low in the slower more technical sections or trails. But with proper gearing 4Low will work better, just like 2High works better when you have proper gearing. In some situations you don’t need the lower gearing, but in some cases you do. And if you do need that lower gearing but don’t have it because your gears are too tall you end up going faster through an obstacle than you may want to. And that can lead to breaking things.
Regearing helps on the road and it helps off-road. Having the right gearing to match your tire size is always a good thing. Some Wranglers come with the right gearing from the factory, others don’t. But larger tires will pretty much always benefit from regearing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,426 Posts
Roger, thanks guys! So regearing would be both a performance and a convinience factor when offroading. 4lo would be limited to some specially tricky spots or sections, right?
If you are offroad, and dont need to go over 15 or 20, put it in 4 low. That's what it's there for.

Think about it like this, high gear is designed to do 90-100mph easily.

If the fastest you are going to go is 10 mph, you are using 10% of that. You are only using 1st gear, and your transmission is going to get hot fast.

When you are in 4 low, you get to use the whole transmission. Temps will not be an issue.

In Washington we had a lot of fire roads between trails, and we would shift into high. Besides that, it's staying in low.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
541 Posts
Actually, I believe I understand what the OP is saying, and if so, I agree.
Everyone’s use is different though.
My YJ is stock and running 31’s.
It serves 3 purposes.
In the spring and summer it’s a convertible, and bonus, the doors come off.
In the fall it’s a go-anywhere hunting machine.
In the winter it’s my little snowmobile, with heater.
It’s perfect for me.
When I’m in deep/wet snow, or deep/wet mud, 4lo works perfectly fine, even with the dreaded 3.07’s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,403 Posts
Again, I reiterate: I understand the need for regearing to compensate for lost onroad performance, or to improve it with stock tireswhen towing and/or for high altitude driving, this is not what I'm asking about. I do not understand (perhaps yet) the argument regearing is necessary for offroad performance. I remain open minded about this, and I may very well be wrong.
Speed (or lack of) and torque.
With such an incredible amount of torque at such a slow forward crawling speed.... a tremendous amount of finite and detailed control becomes available.

I have the rubi, (4:1 tcase) with auto tranny and 5.13 gears. Forward speed at idle (1st gear on the tranny) is about 0.4 to 0.5mph (average walking speed is about 3mph)... but try hard as you can to stop the dammed jeep! I need two feet on the brake pedal to hold it at a stop. It just WANTS to climb. I can go up and over a LARGE 3 foot rock without touching the gas at all... and not only does the wheel climb up and over, but it also drops down over the rock at the same slow speed it went up. I don't have to gun the gas to get it to climb and risk over shooting and flying off the other side of the rock. It "climbs" down with the same control it climbed up.

I use 4lo to pull my boat out of the water. No engine revving, no gas pedal gunning... I just take my feet off the brake and the engine idles a 5000lb boat out of the water.

4lo (with gearing) is about absolute total control over a rather huge amount of torque
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,787 Posts
I have found it depends on what type of wheeling you are doing. It also depends on how much torque your engine provides. I have a buddy with a 4 liter TJ and a rubi case 4.88s and a manual trans and 35s. He can rock crawl fine BUT get him in sand or mud (like we have here in Wisconsin) and he struggles. Another buddy with a TJ, rubi case,35s, 4.88s and auto BUT has a LS engine. He can rock crawl OR zip thru mud and sand. I have the 3.6, non rubi case, auto, 4.88s and can do both also without much problem. There is also much to be said in my opinion on how one drives. The fun for me is finding the correct gear and transfer case setting to give myself a challenge but not break anything. My Jeep has the traction control so 4 hi requires a bit of thought to not have it kick in. The TJ's are not so computerized. So far so good. No broken drive train components yet.
I recently did some wheeling on a large sand hill as part of a longer ride (not aired down running 28 in the tires). 4 hi auto bogged me halfway up. 4 hi in second (auto trans) got me 3/4 way. I then tried 4 lo second gear. TCS was eliminated and without hitting the rev limiter I made it up a previously chewed up sand hill that I couldnt get up any other way. BTW we are all fully locked so that is a given.. I did not get a chance to manually disconnect TCS on the 4 hi run. I am thinking I could have done it in 4 hi, locked and in 2nd also but that will be another day. I find that to be part of the fun of Jeeping. These things are made to do a bunch of stuff. Anyone can mash a pedal to try and overcome something. Mine is built for the crap I see here in the Midwest. I am not the best at rock climbing. There are some rock places but much more sand and dirt. Dont know if I answered the O.P's post but I tried. Cheers.
Plant Sky Plant community Cloud Ecoregion
 
  • Like
Reactions: White Elemant

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,403 Posts
I have found it depends on what type of wheeling you are doing. It also depends on how much torque your engine provides. I have a buddy with a 4 liter TJ and a rubi case 4.88s and a manual trans and 35s. He can rock crawl fine BUT get him in sand or mud (like we have here in Wisconsin) and he struggles. Another buddy with a TJ, rubi case,35s, 4.88s and auto BUT has a LS engine.
I think that probably has more to do with the auto vs manual tranny. Autos are better at transmitting uninterrupted power to the wheels, even when they are shifting. That's needed in the mud, sand, and snow. Because of the clutching required on manuals, more often than not you have an on/off power curve to the wheels.
 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Top