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I for one have enough fine motor skills to modulate gas and brake with more range than "gun or step on it". I get what you are pointing at here, but the the option for high crawl ratio is not wreckless use of pedals.

I have the (slight) benefit of having the optional 3.73 gear ratio, dunno how "bad" the stock 3.21 is.
I take it you have never wheeled anything with low gears.

It's not about your ability. We arent installing super low gears because we all suck. We are doing it because it works better.
 

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Lots of good input here and I’ll just add a slightly different tack as usual: I went to 35s in my Rubicon last year. I drove it for just about a year and did a number of difficult trails with the stock 4.10s in the diffs. Now I live at elevation and the trails I’m on are at an even higher elevation, but the 4.10s kinda sucked for the street, and- more importantly and really my point- I had to actually start using the throttle when on hard obstacles in 4 low on trails.

I don’t like using the throttle and very much prefer to idle up everything. I found myself slipping the clutch every now and then and stalled regularly due to having driven on the OEM gears and tires for so many years. I very recently had 4.88s put in the diffs and it’s now back to the OEM feeling, which I loved.

So my point is, “just popping it into 4 low” to account for too tall gearing when in 4 high isn’t really the question you want to be asking in my opinion. It should instead be, “is my 4 low enough to keep me from being a throttle jockey when in the hard stuff?”

Put another way, let’s say 1st gear 4 low is plenty to climb walls, but you‘d like to cover more ground than a walking pace for the time on the trail. Well, the advantage of a manual in that situation for me is that I start in 3rd, maybe even 4th gear. I actually spend a decent bit of time in 6th gear in 4 low if I want to go over 10 mph. If I need to go any faster for any length of time or want to mob like an idiot, I put it back into 4 high.

Another component that more or less has been answered is that the OEM gears are established for various models for various reasons. Meaning, a Rubicon was to be focused on ultimate capability out of the box. An auto Sahara is a bit more tame- albeit still very capable. Once you alter that configuration, you are now having to do all the engineering work the OEM did to figure out what was best for the model given the design use case. So, now that I have brought the gear to tire ratio back to stock, despite running higher revs than I did with the larger tires too tall gears, my economy has improved quite well as has overall drivability, because now I don’t have to wring it’s neck any longer.
 

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2016 Wrangler JKU 3.6 Backcountry
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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
I take it you have never wheeled anything with low gears.

It's not about your ability. We arent installing super low gears because we all suck. We are doing it because it works better.
You took it wrong. I'm yet to come at a situation where 4lo was not sufficient for me, granted the possibilities for demanding wheeling here are very, very limited. To reiterate my point, I lose grip before I run out of torque, and with auto tranny there's no risk of stalling the engine in any situation. This thread has made me understand the benefits of regearing when it comes to offroading in more (or less) demanding conditions, as well as that there is no absolute right solution for this.

And just for the record, I have not suggested that anyone sucks.
 

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To reiterate my point, I lose grip before I run out of torque, and with auto tranny there's no risk of stalling the engine in any situation.
You can have the best 4 wheeler in the world and it's still a big ZERO without grip....but that's an entirely different ball game and there are other ways to combat that.... lockers.... bigger wheels with more aggressive rubber.... airing down, yadda yadda.

But yeah... we're in snow up here 6 or 7 months of the year and I rarely ever use 4lo in the snow. There is no sense in it because there is simply not enough grip even with lockers to support 4lo. So there are some situations where 4lo is totally useless... but you are not using 4lo to increase grip. You are using 4 lo for increased torque at a lower speed for more precise control, and my best guess between your crawl ratio and mine is that you will be using brakes and gas a heck of a lot more that I will have to, to make up for the lack of control that you have.

Like that article I posted above says:

The 100:1 range is about what most strive for in a rockcrawling rig. You can certainly get away with a much higher (numerically lower) crawl ratio, but the lower you go, the greater the odds of not having to back out of any obstacles on the trail.
 

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If you want to crawl just get rid of the Jeep and get yourself a Unimog. Over 3000:1 ratio, you can go 475 feet in an hour.
 

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Best money spent was regearing for both on and off road IMHO.
Agreed. Also, I didn't read every word to each post - but didn't see any mention of the benefit of descending - so if someone pointed this out sorry. 4-Lo is extremely beneficial going downhill off-road to use the torque of the engine rather than wearing out your brakes as well. I know I re-geared my JKUR with 4.10s and auto trans to 4.88s when I went from 35s to 37s and it's perfect on and off road IMO.
 
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