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Discussion Starter #1
OK, I know there are lots of slider threads... This one is about ground clearance vs protection trade offs between the different designs that are available today.

Intro: short story, I have nfab bars (body mount) that came on my new JK and they could not stand up to even a few months of wheelin. I knew they weren't sliders but hoped they would have held up a bit better. Besides the bars being bent w collapsed tubing. They have crunched my rockers on both sides w paint cracking....


So, I need some real rock rails / sliders, ASAP .

I was all set to go EVO or VKS (bolt or weld on, frame mounted). However after wheelin Saturday... I was told by a few people that had frame mount that if they had to do it again. They would go body mount to get back ground clearance they lost and hope they still hold up... This made me stop and I'd love to hear from people that actually have experience, really using these sliders on rocks... To know what their experience is with hard wheelin with PSC, PJ, EVO, VKS, TNT, etc.... I wheel on damn big rocks quite a bit, also waterfalls and step up/downs. I need to occasionally pivot around rocks, may slip off now and then.... I go for tough obstacles and want a tough slider.

Any real world advice here is appreciated. Basically I want to know how tough body mounted sliders are and if frame mounted slider guys feel they give up too much clearance for the perceived strength / safety advantages they gain. Because if I can't make it up obstacles with frame mounted that I can w body mount, that's a tough one...

Thx
 

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Body mount... hope they still hold up = screwing up your body. No thanks. I'd sacrifice a little clearance for body protection any day of the week.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
So are people getting damage then with purpose built body mount sliders like PSC, PJ, GenRight, etc?

Also how much ground clearance are we losing with frame mounted like EVO, VKS, etc? and do these guys feel that it's causing them to get hung up on obstacles that they might otherwise clear?
 

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Tough one here.

Yes I have a bent Poison Spyder Brawler that resulted in tub damage and a creased fender BUT I wheel extremely hard and have had the whole Jeep drop about 2 feet landing at or close to the spot that bent 10 times or so before any damage happened. For 95% of people I can't see there ever being an issue with damage.

As far as frame mounted sliders go, any ground clearance given up is to much for me.

That's just me though. We all have different opinions. I don't mind leaving paint behind but most people do everything they can to avoid a scratch or dent.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the input and rou're right, it's a tough balance for sure... I've definitely seen a few claims that pretty much every body mounted slider will not be able to handle hard wheeling on a heavy 4 door JK but you do get extra clearance and so you may not need to use them as much... but slip off a rock or have it crack apart, hit the B pillar and you're in for some trouble (from what I hear)... it seems that overall body mount will work much better on the 2 door and so I have to weigh this also.

Does anyone know much ground clearance I give up going to bolt on or weld on like EVO / VKS? I don't have good local examples and it's hard to tell in pics but is it 1", 2", more?
 

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I'm interested in results here too
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Correct they will be above the bottom of the frame, if you were always running over rocks that were flat and you don't lean over it wouldn't be a problem.... but the issue for most of us that put big rocks / ledges down the side of our rigs for more clearance is that those arms stick out from the frame (just under the body) and then go up from there... so what happens is that you hit your sliders before you *would* have made contact with body mount options. If you rest any weight on your sliders, you have less grip on the rock and or / high center on that point and can't clear the obstacle.

As mentioned, it's a trade off, there is no perfect zen here but I want to know how much I'm going to lose and how people get on with what they have when trying to make it up the big obstacles...

I'm thinking that you lose ~ 2" on your side rails with frame mounted?
 

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I really don't see how with a frame mounted sliders you loose ground clearance. I mean the frame is already there.



Yes it does extended out but it does not set lower.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Because we're not talking about the clearance under your jeep (belly) we are talking about the clearance at the rocker. We all know rocker damage happens even though both our frame and body sit lower to the ground than the rocker. This is because we can and do put big rocks under and between the wheels that we could never fit under the belly. As was mentioned in the last post, you wouldn't need them otherwise.

So for guys that wheel over big rocks (boulders for example) you have to crawl over these with your tires and when you come down... You need all the clearance you can get. A frame mounted slider comes off the side of the frame. This point is lower than the body mount. Plus we can also lean way over while doing this making it worse. There is no substitute for ground clearance but I don't want to deal with damage either.

Think I have to just go frame mount with a 4 door, the extra weight and longer rockers are just more prone to damage. Still would love to hear from guys that have experience with this.
 

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I have the PSC ones and I use them. They make great pivots and i have pounded on them. My last set of another brand did not hold up and bent my tub. These are doing great.
 

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you can not compare the body mount of the nfab bars to something like PSC. still, frame mount is always going to win out in the structural integrity department.
 

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There is more to it then how low or high they sit since you don't just simply drive over rock and only worry about hitting your belly. If that was the case then you wouldn't need the damned things in the first place.
What? Are you referring to the picture? I posted the picture showing the clearance of a frame mounted slider, not the terrain the vehicle is on.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Agreed, I know the PSC stuff is much better than the NFab I have now, no contest. And it looks like gunner does put those to the test. I have thought about PSC but I have heard from some of those guys that they switched to the Nemesis Billy Rocker after seeing that product in action. It seems like it may have a few advantages : http://youtu.be/CojkNpYMwGc

My only concern is that they are aluminum and I don't know how that holds up out here. I've had aluminum monocoque frames on race vehicles and if you bend the metal for rigidity, it is crazy strong structurally but it's still a soft metal and I would think would show more damage on the skin. It may retain the ground clearance of a body mount w weight savings and the strength needed for hard wheelin in a 4 door. Any thoughts on these?

I'm going to look more at the rock hard system also, thx
 

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I don't get why the ground clearance is a concern. The sliders are supposed to slide. You want them low enough to protect the body from damage, right? Unless they are much lower that the frame they ought to be good to go. In fact, just about level with the frame a maybe bit higher seems optimal. You don't want axles, control arms, engine, etc, to hit rocks but sliders are meant to hit rocks.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
If you're on tough obstacles and you high center on your sliders, your tires don't touch the ground and you can't move forward. It's all about the difficulty of the terrain. So you want the most clearance possible while still having the protection.

Gunner, do you have the steel or aluminum PSC Brawlers?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Here's a pic that may help show you just one of the possible situations where you want all the clearance at the rocker you can get but still need uncompromising protection. This is not my jeep but it was in another thread I'm reading about rocker protection.

Last of all for those that want to understand better, have a look at the Poison Spyder video below at about the 2:45 mark, they explain at least a basic example and show a vehicle wheeling over a big boulder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hawC9czLojA#t=172
 

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