Jeep Wrangler Forum banner

1 - 20 of 1927 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,888 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Wrestled with whether to tag on or start a thread, opted to have a standalone for search purposes. This thread ties in with Pressurize's thread of tweeter Mod and a couple other threads (Alpine Sub replacement and Infinity 6032si soundbar upgrade) ALL of which ties together to create the combined upgrade effect.
Can't speak for everyone but, several who have been participating in this venture are to be credited with a rather dramatic overall upgrade effect for about the cost of a set of rubber mats. IF you were to do the Tweeter Mod, Soundbar speaker and the Sub - You would have about $100 invested, have a completely "stock appearance" system, retain all steering wheel control functionality and IMO have a system that would rival systems I have done/heard costing well over $1000.
The resulting system will be musical, accurate and something that you will be more likely to actually listen to, I have buddies saying,"Hey I want to hear this on your system".
Anyway, going to use some descriptive terms to try and describe "sound" include some opinion and some quantifiable info as well, Pics etc. Any questions, I will do my best to answer.
Thank you to Pressurized and SteedGun for their involvement and leading the way.
Ok, So....
-Tweeter Upgrade: See Pressurize's thread. Totally wakes up the system HUGE improvement.
- Sound Bar speaker Up-Grade to Infinity 6032si. Gets rid of the "Dead" useless soundbar sound. Big improvement.
- Subwoofer: What's wrong? It is FAT, Bloated, slow, muffled, over-present low frequency mush with very little Impact. It actually distorts if pushed or atenuated and hides detail that is now being revealed by the tweeter and soundbar upgrade.
Challenges: Finding a low profile, efficient, 2 ohm/8"/DVC Sub to replace it with without needing to add an amplifier.
SteedGun found and installed a sub by Rockford Fosgate and his comments can be found in the Alpine Sub Replacement thread and after reading his comments and doing my own Mod - I say his observations are dead on accurate.

Here is the sub I got and installed on Friday evening. It cost me about $70 (lists for a lot more than that) it has all the things we need and comes in at an impressive 86db sensitivity.



Stock Sub and the Pioneer



Install is very very easy especially with the Metra 72-6514 plug n' play adapter that also works for your SoundBar speakers. Your screww holes (all of them) line up Perfectly and you use your Alpine cover with NO modification whatsoever Alpine is top center and Pioneer reads straight when you look through the holes.
Install was a breeze.

Testing the Subs:


As pictured, I used the sterophile test CD as well as a CD I burned with a 50hz non-atenuated test tone and tested output with the pic'd SPL meter.
I tested BOTH Subs with Flat Bass/Treble settings on the HU, even fade, even channel and played the volume at 20. Using the 50hz test tone assured me that the sound tested was coming from the sub and not the rest of the system, I closed the Jeep up and sat Yoga style in the cargo area.
Results: Our Factory Sub played at 94db under repeated tests consistently measured at 1m.
The Pioneer played at 92db under the same testing procedure.
As far as Quality of the sound and subjective impressions..... I will cover that as well. These measurements do not, did not tell the whole story by a long shot.

I touched on the install but have more to say. I'm sure if you are still reading this, you have some interest in Audio.... so you've heard of Dynamat. I intended to reinforce our boomy plastic sub-enclosure during this experiment was NOT spending $140 on dynamat to do this seeing as one of our goals was/is to achieve dramitic results on a homeless budget.
so, "poor mans dynamat"



About $15 at HD and boy it takes more to line that puppy than you think. Goes in nice, feels and looks just like the real thing, maybe because its basically the same stuff ...aluminum faced butyl.

Here is the finished Look



Conclusion:
IF you like Boomy, muddy, unfocused, over-done low freq than the factory sub plays pretty loud IMO (especially after the SB and tweet mod for some reason) I NEVER could get my lows to do anything I wanted them to do even after dicking around with treble/mids/bass forever on the HU. It was either too much or not eneough and for me (recovering audiophile) that is frustrating enough to make me do tear-outs and spend rediculous money.
I believe the bass is the foundation of the music, it should "be there" but NOT over power, it should HIT but not bath me in mud (thats what the jeep is for)
This sub at 92db measured, is musical, it is accurate and it Hits. My son said, "Wow I can feel that in my back and coming from under me" no longer did I hear the Sub ....in the back of the cargo area, I heard BASS in the soundstage.
IF the signal or source is compressed or lacking Bass - this Sub WILL NOT add the bass like the stock sub did/does. It will sound compressed and missing.
BUT if you listen to something with good quality Bass then you will hear it and feel it - you wouldn't with the stock sub.
Here are a couple test pieces that you can hook up your phone or computer via the USB or aux port and play from YouTube.
Artist/Song
- Cashmere Cat - Mirror Maru
- Pretty Lights - Finally Moving
- Beau Jocque & the Zydeco High Rollers - Going to the Country
- Klingande - Jubel

You may like the music, you may not BUT you will get a feel for what these $100 (tweeter/SB/Sub) - you just spent .... bought you.

That's it music Fans. If I/We can help. Cool

Thank you Pressurized, SteedGun and others and thanks for reading all this if you did.
Later
Rubi

In case you are interested:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K98535A/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
800 Posts
I would never have done any of the mods I have done without this forum. Thanks!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,830 Posts
Rubi... questions:

1. Is the factory enclosure considered sealed or vented?

2. What in particular led you to purchase the Pioneer vs. Rockford Fosgate vs. Kicker vs. Earthquake Sound SWS as seen on Sonicelectronix?

3. Does it matter if a subwoofer has a single or dual voice coil?

.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,855 Posts
That's awesome RubiconSS. From what I am seeing, nothing will install easier and cleaner than this Pioneer TS-SW2002D2.

Speaking of clean, I really like how you describe the musicality of the new sub. I find the stock sub distorts and doesn't sound natural at all when you try to put some volume to it.

I envision a system after all of the mods are done that reduces your equalizer attenuation while allowing a lot more volume to be pressed in to service. So instead of +5 or 6 on Treble, its down to flat or +2 and Bass can be +2 or maybe +4 and sound "right and tight" at maybe 24 or more on the volume control.

I know on paper I was looking for something that played "louder" than the stock sub. However, with the tweeter mod, the 6032si in the sound bar (and dash if you choose) and the polyfil, I think we have probably changed the system so much that rethinking how we use the equalizer is the trick to pulling this off.

Seriously:

Tweeter Mod: $3 and 20 minutes.
Soundbar 6032si: $55 and 20 minutes. Metra Adapters $8.
Polyfil: $2 and a few minutes.
Pioneer Sub: $75 and 15 minutes. Metra Adapters $8.

For $150 I believe we are nearing a real "premium" system.

I'm in!!

:beerdrinking:

I do believe these results are probably similar to what Steedgun got with the RF, but the install is easier.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,888 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Rubi... questions:

1. Is the factory enclosure considered sealed or vented?

2. What in particular led you to purchase the Pioneer vs. Rockford Fosgate vs. Kicker vs. Earthquake Sound SWS as seen on Sonicelectronix?

3. Does it matter if a subwoofer has a single or dual voice coil?

.
Rubi... questions:

1. Is the factory enclosure considered sealed or vented? Sealed

2. What in particular led you to purchase the Pioneer vs. Rockford Fosgate vs. Kicker vs. Earthquake Sound SWS as seen on Sonicelectronix?
The low profile and sensitivity for the most part, in conversations with Pressurized "we" decided that I would jump on this one as our test subject realizing that the numbers were one thing but the truth would be in the listening.
3. Does it matter if a subwoofer has a single or dual voice coil? Yes. Our subs have (are wired for) DVC's, that was a prerequisite in the replacement Press' can comment on the why's I am sure.

.
...................
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,460 Posts
The stock speakers (I haven't touched them except for poly fill in the SB and SW) actually don't sound horrible with my new Pioneer HU. I had little to no bass prior and now it's there. The rest of the system woke up too. I firmly believe that it is not the speakers or the amp or the HU. It is the whole system together sucks.

You change the speakers, it gets better. You change the HU, it gets better. It's almost like they engineered it to sound like crap. My system is so much better with the new HU. Still, I think the speaker mods would make it sound great. I am so not convinced the amp is part of the problem. It's the signal going in from the stock HU's and the poor speakers acting in concert. Change one side of the equation and it will get better. Change both and it will become premium.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,855 Posts
Rubi... questions:

1. Is the factory enclosure considered sealed or vented?

2. What in particular led you to purchase the Pioneer vs. Rockford Fosgate vs. Kicker vs. Earthquake Sound SWS as seen on Sonicelectronix?

3. Does it matter if a subwoofer has a single or dual voice coil?

.
1. Sealed as RubiconSS stated.

2. Spec's wise it is slightly better than the others in efficiency and a closer match to our sealed enclosure size. Also, it fits as a direct replacement with just adding the Metra Adapters (important for many DIY's).

3. Our system (amp) uses 2 channels to power the sub, so we need a DVC driver. This is somewhat uncommon as most DVC subs are used in series or parallel to get the impedance you want.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,888 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
That's awesome RubiconSS. From what I am seeing, nothing will install easier and cleaner than this Pioneer TS-SW2002D2.

Speaking of clean, I really like how you describe the musicality of the new sub. I find the stock sub distorts and doesn't sound natural at all when you try to put some volume to it.

I envision a system after all of the mods are done that reduces your equalizer attenuation while allowing a lot more volume to be pressed in to service. So instead of +5 or 6 on Treble, its down to flat or +2 and Bass can be +2 or maybe +4 and sound "right and tight" at maybe 24 or more on the volume control.

I know on paper I was looking for something that played "louder" than the stock sub. However, with the tweeter mod, the 6032si in the sound bar (and dash if you choose) and the polyfil, I think we have probably changed the system so much that rethinking how we use the equalizer is the trick to pulling this off.

Seriously:

Tweeter Mod: $3 and 20 minutes.
Soundbar 6032si: $55 and 20 minutes. Metra Adapters $8.
Polyfil: $2 and a few minutes.
Pioneer Sub: $75 and 15 minutes. Metra Adapters $8.

For $150 I believe we are nearing a real "premium" system.

I'm in!!

:beerdrinking:
Thank you for reminding me Press'...... Yes my stock system would often be at max volume and "playing" what I would describe as one dimensional, mono chromatic (so to speak) sound. I wouldn't call it Music because it did not involve me at all.
Then I did the tweets and really felt the involvement come in, then came the SB's and coupled with the tweets I had a soundstage, performer emotion was being recreated and transmitted/received. I was listening to it instead of tolerating it.....but
the low end was a distraction.
Now I am at flat "0" on highs and mids and if I want to - I can actually go to +2 on the Bass (while playing lets say, one of the four songs I listed) and at 22- as high as 28 on volume - be slammin' clear, correctly staged music with Bass that is really hitting as it should be. No distraction and no localization of the sound wave discernible just a total encompassing presentation.
In addition to the polyfill, I do suggest the reinforcement/lining of the sub-enclosure with the mat. It is easy and cheap to do so and I will tell you how to test it. "Rap" on the outside of the enclosure as is and then rap on it once lined. It is a dull thud after being lined and that is what you want, an acoustically neutral "dead" (as is possible with it being plastic) enclosure. The reason why speakers are made of MDF and then veneered with wood is multi-fold. Wood is not a stable medium (contracts and expands/warps, etc) MDF is both stable and acoustically neutral. The designer has enough to contend with (cross-overs, drivers, nodes, room acoustics, power handling, etc) doesn't need the "Box" tuning to be an issue more than it already is.
So, anyway.....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,452 Posts
Nice write up Rubi. Thanks, for the $ 70 I might try the Pioneer as well and compare the two. I am slammed right now with travel but I should be able to play with this more later this week. I really like how your Pioneer fits better than the RF.

Hard to describe but my RF, as you noted with the Pioneer, just plays cleaner sound not all that much louder.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,888 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
If memory serves I believe the RF sub was rated at 82-83db sensitivity. The Pioneer is 86db.
May be a factor. The Pioneer (as probably the RF) can be pushed harder (played at higher attenuation and volume) and yet stay in balance with the rest of the system.
When the screws lined up and I saw the words were centered I was pretty shocked I must admit. That doesn't happen to me.
Then I screwed it in and kinda went, "huh, no kidding that's cool".
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,888 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
A listening suggestion: After the Tweets and SB are done and you lined and mounted the Sub..... Youtube (on your phone or device) Beau Jocque and the Zydeco HiRollers version of "Knockin' on Heavens Door". A Great song no matter what BUT listen to it (in the dark if you can) at 24 or so volume.
Holy Crap!!!

IF anyone walks away from that not in shock..... Don't be driving, just sit and listen.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,855 Posts
So after a little more time with it, is your impression becoming more favorable, less favorable or about the same as you felt right after the installation?

Any other tweaks to the settings, equalizer etc?
 
1 - 20 of 1927 Posts
Top